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Every one at max level or no levels
ArchivedUser
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It may sound odd to have an mmorpg with no leveling or everyone at max level right from the start but take at look at the benefits.
There would be starting zones but no level 1-10 leveling zones. Take World of Warcraft for example that game is only as big as its current expansion. Yes the actual game world is pretty big, but once you have reached max level most of the map remains unexplored, and most toons are at the hot spot of the current expansion. There is no reason to visit the low level zones because you one shot every thing. So there could be a wonderfully rendered zones with good stroy lines that get abandoned cause it is a low leveling zone. Let us take a look at some good points.
-Since the entire world is relevent to gamers that effectively makes game world bigger vs a really big world were most of the players are at the highest leveling zone.
-Quests and story lines not limited to a single leveling zone, which would lead to going on legendary quests that could span the entire game world.
-Missions like Great Dragon is terrorizing this zone (gm spawning monster) could happen anywhere Players would kill it,and that would be the end of it. Players would have to wait to the next spawning which may be a different monster to get in on the action.
-Since most of the monsters are at the same level gear drops would be more significant, same thing with materials needed to make crafting items. There would still be "low level drops" but they would be better than some 1-5 level iitem when you are at max level.
-Dungeouns and raids would have a longer "shelf life". Obviously a toon would eventually out grow them, but with dungeoun difficulties and raid diffulties (more monsters / more area to clear /different gear drops) players would have incentive to do those dungeons. I mean the developers could do an awesome job at making a dungeon, with superb game mechanics; the whole experience would be fantastic, but toons only play it for ten levels or missed it altogether cause they did not do dungeons at those levels.
-With no levels or everyone at max level ALL of the content for Ashes of Creation could be kept current for the entire life of the game. Just have options for difficulty levels, change the gear that gets dropped at different levels, even present new monsters, there could be a challenge dungeon that would be a slighty different version of the original, not just more hp and more dmg.
There would be starting zones but no level 1-10 leveling zones. Take World of Warcraft for example that game is only as big as its current expansion. Yes the actual game world is pretty big, but once you have reached max level most of the map remains unexplored, and most toons are at the hot spot of the current expansion. There is no reason to visit the low level zones because you one shot every thing. So there could be a wonderfully rendered zones with good stroy lines that get abandoned cause it is a low leveling zone. Let us take a look at some good points.
-Since the entire world is relevent to gamers that effectively makes game world bigger vs a really big world were most of the players are at the highest leveling zone.
-Quests and story lines not limited to a single leveling zone, which would lead to going on legendary quests that could span the entire game world.
-Missions like Great Dragon is terrorizing this zone (gm spawning monster) could happen anywhere Players would kill it,and that would be the end of it. Players would have to wait to the next spawning which may be a different monster to get in on the action.
-Since most of the monsters are at the same level gear drops would be more significant, same thing with materials needed to make crafting items. There would still be "low level drops" but they would be better than some 1-5 level iitem when you are at max level.
-Dungeouns and raids would have a longer "shelf life". Obviously a toon would eventually out grow them, but with dungeoun difficulties and raid diffulties (more monsters / more area to clear /different gear drops) players would have incentive to do those dungeons. I mean the developers could do an awesome job at making a dungeon, with superb game mechanics; the whole experience would be fantastic, but toons only play it for ten levels or missed it altogether cause they did not do dungeons at those levels.
-With no levels or everyone at max level ALL of the content for Ashes of Creation could be kept current for the entire life of the game. Just have options for difficulty levels, change the gear that gets dropped at different levels, even present new monsters, there could be a challenge dungeon that would be a slighty different version of the original, not just more hp and more dmg.
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Problem is I still didn't see a scaling that worked well.
Yeah, lvl 60 player gets scaled to 15, but he still owns 30 skills, and 60 talent points distributed everywhere.
Meanwhile real lvl 15 has 3 skills, and 15 talent points, and gets completely destroyed by "scaled lvl 60".
At least this is how it worked in every other MMO I played that had scaling.
But in the end lvl's are important otherwise how will you get all your skills, just from the start? Buy them with gold??
IMO lvling is fine, especialy when it takes 60 days for a general person who games as they stated. Wich will probbaly be 3/4 days for hardcore players.
1) After you hit max level the game has just begun; it kind of starts all over again with other content. Leveling is 60 days or less part of the game then it is over forever.
2)Level 1 people may do 100dps max level people 500,000dps. Level one toon may have to attack 6 seconds to kill low level cat. Max level toon will also atack 6 seconds to kill max level cat cause it has 3 million hp instead of 600hp So there is no real progression besides abilities.
3)There would still be experience that goes toward unlocking abilities, upgrading weapons, buffing abilities, ect; just the huge gap between level one and max level would not as big.
UnknownSystemError said the node system that is already implemented pretty much solves this issue; which is good to hear. That means we can enjoy the positive things about leveling a toon, without the huge gap it can produce. I am not disagreeing with any of you just want to get some ideas out there.
RPGs require some form of leveling.
But, it's better to have shallow vertical progression and wide horizontal progression.
In perspective, WoW started with max level at level 60.
Ashes is supposed to have max at level 50, so...
My main concern is this: DEAD ZONES. Most mmorpgs have over 50% of the cool world that they created abandoned, cause it is too low level. Also low level dungeouns and raids that are awesome but cannot be truly enjoyed cause you one shot the bosses. So if Ashes of Creation can deal with those problems and have a leveling experience that is great.
So in a nutshell my post is this. Dead zones are bad get rid of them and we should be able to enjoy the awesome low level content that you created at max level; with or without levels. Trick is to have those smart game mechanics to allow this.
Players can level and de-level cities and zones.
More importantly, the game design allows players to generate different content by de-leveling a node and then re-building that node differently.
As opposed to all places remaining static for 18 months while players wait for the next expansion.
I loathe and despise level grind.
Now:
Level grind (in some form) is a necessary evil in MMORPG's. One of my favorite aspects of MMO's is the character customization. Some games the only real customization comes from what armor set you have equipped. Still, there are others where you race, class, and sub class all matter and even some where you have all of those options plus the ability to allocate attribute/skill points to various levels. If a game has these mechanics then a level grind is absolutely necessary because otherwise there is no barrier to just re-rolling until you have the perfect creation.
In others, WoW and other MMOs are like that because ... They're programmed to be that way ; they put far too much emphasis on gear and forgot how give depth to each LvL. Currently follow the below trend ...
" New Expansions = Higher-Level-Cap = all your hard-work have been for nothing " ...
Thus making your gear & stats inadequate forcing the Player/ Customer to buy the Expansion & Do another grind
( Which btw ... The " grind " is also programmed liked that ).
Each Node Z.O.I. will dictate the NPCs' Lvls ; being a mixture of levels that'll fluctuate based on the Node's Level. Thus, each Node Z.O.I. will be ... " Any Level ". In others words, the Devs will be giving a reason for higher levels to come back to those " Node's Z.O.I. of Interest " ... Because it will be programmed to be that way - to give Players a reason to come back ...in order to defend the Nodes' Z.O.I.
( Or something similar to that which I described )
So if you're lvl 6, and your 1st character was spawned 1 month after launch ... you may very well come across an NPC lvl 23, depending on the Node's Level.
OR
If you make a 2nd character, in another Node Z.O.I. after 3 months of Launch ... Then it'll be different than when you made your 1st character - you might spawn in the middle of a Guild vs Guild conflict, or maybe lost in the wilderness.
But it's programmed to be that way ^.~
@Consultant saidAs stated above, I am ultimately neutral on that. Because ... Rather than leveling-up, players can set themselves apart by Stat-Progression depending on what the player does
Or
They could even have an " in-depth leveling system " if they wanted to. Such as having Multiple EXP Bars via Ability EXP, Crafting EXP, Skill EXP, Exploration EXP, etc ...
Or
Both ?
In the end, this segment you typed won't fit in this MMORPG - If everyone is at MAX Lvl/ stats... Then Node LvL would be meaningless to have ; there won't be different journeys to heard from players and get travels - it'll all be same without any diversity.
(I.e. you experience seeing a strange create in the wilderness, whereas Player B found burrows ... Tricky to explain > .<
EDIT: I HATE AUTOCORRECT ... Refresh & Re-read pls
We already have Node's to be Adaptive to Player(s) Activities ... Why not have Adaptive Skill Progression, Adaptive Environment, etc
Keep it classic.
After you get to level 50 like or not you will have a no leveling experience. Besides I am talking about a level cap that idea comes from creating rpgs. As a guidline you you should set a level cap before starting an rpg.
That way death gets more meaningful and players can do new unlocked low lv content in another node without oneshooting everything and without shitty scaling mechanics.
For this, abilitys couldn't be learned through leveling alone but through exploring the world or completing specialized tasks. So players wouldn't loose all theire skills after dieing a few times. So level really just changes various base stats, maybe reputation towards npc organisations or access to special quests/competitive pvp arena fights.
That being said, I don't think Ashes is the game for that particular scenario, and as was said above. Zones will have Nodes, so I don't think we'll see the sandard 1-10 10-20 etc levelling zones.
In other words, Modern Companies increase level Cap in expansions to force players in buying their expansion ... Level-Cap doesn't have to ever Increase - just Superb content that'll last longer than 5 - 7 months
Since we have a hard promise of no paid dlc ever. Intrepid breaks this cycle. Small content updates monthly to six weeks, with larger content drop quarterly is the stated plan. All for the price of the sub. Notice I did not say base sub, with no f2p/p2w mechanics there is no premium vs basic sub. Since most of the "content" will be driven by the actual playerbase itself, they may stumble to find the balance initially, but should recover quickly. The main shift in players thinking that will be required will be to break them from themepark thinking to "themebox" acceptance.