RNG system or Farm friendly system ?

ArchivedUser

Hello everyone.

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I made a post yesterday but i wasn't explaining it well and when i wanted to edit it have dissapeared "waiting for confirmation" so i post a new here.

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The lasts fews years, we saw almost all MMORPGs whith freaking RNG system : 

To upgrade one item you had to try it, you had, depending of the grade, more or less chances for sucess or fail, and if fail, your item was destroyed sometimes.

This sytem was put in place by Devs to make p2w items that increase chances of sucess or prevent item's destruction. Still it was a fking casino.

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So, now this game wont have any p2w mechanics, i was wondering if they could not add RNG system to this amazing looking project, but instead :

Put a system into this game that we could pay with InGame money a very huge ammount of golds to get 100% chances of sucess to upgrade our item. Or anything that we have to farm very hard and long to get it, but at the end we know why we farmed that hard and we get 100% chances of sucess.

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Well, maybe for players that love to play casino games we could leave a system like this so they can waste all their money of they want, but personally, i'm done with this system.

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Before saying i'm crying for nothing, just know that i made a full mytic warship in Archeage before 3.0, regrading 11 items to mytic rank, costed me 250K golds and took me 13 months of hard work, frustration, madness,...

I wouldf have higly prefered to farm for 15-16 months, had to pay 300K golds but for each items i had to pay lot of golds but  i was sure to get it without frustration, rewarded of the hard work i made and dont have to sell my gear multiple time to get money to waste in this freaking casino minigame.

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Keep in head that a no RNG system wont allow everyone to get all best items since it wont make them easier to get (well, very depending of your luck). It will just remove the frustration on fails since this RNG system was basically to encourage p2w mechanics. Best items will still be dropped on bosses or something.

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So, what's your opinion about it : 

Choice 1 : Please No RNG at all. 

Choice 2 : Make a no RNG system but keep a RNG system for thoses that love "casinos".

Choice 3 : Long live RNG system, long live RNGesus.

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ArchivedUser

I'm not fond of either of those choices.
Can you rephrase 2 and 3 to sound less douchey?

ArchivedUser

Dee said:

I'm not fond of either of those choices.
Can you rephrase 2 and 3 to sound less douchey?

done

ArchivedUser

I also don't like "chance" factor much.

ArchivedUser

My personal opinion is that enchantment items, scrolls, materials or whatever we will have should not be in the cash shop and obtainable in-game. I also strongly believe that failed attempts should not break your gear or decrease your enchantment level.

ArchivedUser

Or, how about just not having over-enchanting at all? *gasp*

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

I know, but since nothing is setled yes. Do we know if we fail it will POOOOF or it will just wont go up, but dont retrograde too ?

ArchivedUser

Nope, we don't know. And we won't until they clarify it months from now. So getting worked up over it has not real purpose besides mentally rubbing one out. They have decided to go the no p2win route. That has been made clear over and over. So until they release they system they have decided on, it is not feedback, it is wishlisting, and has about as much impact as writing a letter to Santa. Sure, mommy may read it, but she is going go "aawww cute"..and still give you socks for Christmas.

ArchivedUser

Choice 4:

- no RNG
- no GRIND

- yes to SKILL BASED upgrades

Skill based upgrades:
- hard challenges that need to be finished to give you upgrade tokens
- hard raids, difficult to complete, giving you upgrade tokens
- etc.

In short, require skill activity to gain upgrades, rather then RNG or GRIND.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Choice 4:

- no RNG
- no GRIND

- yes to SKILL BASED upgrades

Skill based upgrades:
- hard challenges that need to be finished to give you upgrade tokens
- hard raids, difficult to complete, giving you upgrade tokens
- etc.

In short, require skill activity to gain upgrades, rather then RNG or GRIND.

There will be some form of a grind I can pretty much gaurantee that otherwise some people would get everything day 1 and have nothing left to do.

I am all for an rng loot drop system in the game though. Grind until I get that perfect roll dude, hell yeah, love it!

ArchivedUser

whitedude31 said:

Gothix said:

Choice 4:

- no RNG
- no GRIND

- yes to SKILL BASED upgrades

Skill based upgrades:
- hard challenges that need to be finished to give you upgrade tokens
- hard raids, difficult to complete, giving you upgrade tokens
- etc.

In short, require skill activity to gain upgrades, rather then RNG or GRIND.

There will be some form of a grind I can pretty much gaurantee that otherwise some people would get everything day 1 and have nothing left to do.

I am all for an rng loot drop system in the game though. Grind until I get that perfect roll dude, hell yeah, love it!

As long as the RNG system isn't like WOW's where items can titanforge and what not. There should only be one version of the item. Leave the upgrading to the crafters not up to a damn RNG system.

ArchivedUser

Zastro said:

whitedude31 said:

Gothix said:

Choice 4:

- no RNG
- no GRIND

- yes to SKILL BASED upgrades

Skill based upgrades:
- hard challenges that need to be finished to give you upgrade tokens
- hard raids, difficult to complete, giving you upgrade tokens
- etc.

In short, require skill activity to gain upgrades, rather then RNG or GRIND.

There will be some form of a grind I can pretty much gaurantee that otherwise some people would get everything day 1 and have nothing left to do.

I am all for an rng loot drop system in the game though. Grind until I get that perfect roll dude, hell yeah, love it!

As long as the RNG system isn't like WOW's where items can titanforge and what not. There should only be one version of the item. Leave the upgrading to the crafters not up to a damn RNG system.

I agree Zastro, there will undoubtedly be RNG of sorts with a "grind" attached but there's a sensible way of implementing that, with maybe even a secondary means of working towards gear to back up the RNG so that nobody is working for nothing. As an MMO vet I'm sure @GMSteven will have his finger on the pulse where this is concerned.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Choice 4:

- no RNG
- no GRIND

- yes to SKILL BASED upgrades

Skill based upgrades:
- hard challenges that need to be finished to give you upgrade tokens
- hard raids, difficult to complete, giving you upgrade tokens
- etc.

In short, require skill activity to gain upgrades, rather then RNG or GRIND.

You call it hard, guilds will turn it into easy guild events  and everyone will be maxed within a week.

RNG enchanting is still the best way without making the game too easy or progress impossible.

According to your preferences, I wonder if MMORPGs are for you at all. You seem to prefer the opposite to everything a MMORPG stands for.

ArchivedUser

FliP said:

Gothix said:

Choice 4:

- no RNG
- no GRIND

- yes to SKILL BASED upgrades

Skill based upgrades:
- hard challenges that need to be finished to give you upgrade tokens
- hard raids, difficult to complete, giving you upgrade tokens
- etc.

In short, require skill activity to gain upgrades, rather then RNG or GRIND.

You call it hard, guilds will turn it into easy guild events  and everyone will be maxed within a week.

RNG enchanting is still the best way without making the game too easy or progress impossible.

According to your preferences, I wonder if MMORPGs are for you at all. You seem to prefer the opposite to everything a MMORPG stands for.

I feel that's a bit harsh. I can see what he's suggesting and it's not a horrible idea, but as pointed out, "skill content" usually turns into "farmed content" when people become familiar and practiced at it. 

RNG lends to a bit if danger in the game in small doses. It's a gamble, and gambling is fun for most people. 

Its also an equalizer because everyone is taking a similar chance. Such as RNG loot tables or RNG enchanting. It's when a game relies heavily or fully on RNG is when I have a problem. 

ArchivedUser

FliP said:

According to your preferences, I wonder if MMORPGs are for you at all. You seem to prefer the opposite to everything a MMORPG stands for.

LOL!  Says the person who thinks "linkable achievement" and "competition" is bad in an MMORPG. You're one of the last people here to say somebody else if their prefences don't match with MMORPG genre. 'Cause what you expect from the game is nothing much more than a middle earth themed simulation game... as you also wouldn't like a character having skills, levels, or achievement because of "elitists" can deselect you in dungeon by any criteria... Seriously, I had to laugh at this, calling for someone else saying "your preferences is against MMORPG", LOL

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

RNG lends to a bit if danger in the game in small doses. It's a gamble, and gambling is fun for most people. 

Not to me mate, you have no idea how horrible bad luck magnet I am. 
Been unlucky in RNG all my life. It's why I hate it so much.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Karthos said:

RNG lends to a bit if danger in the game in small doses. It's a gamble, and gambling is fun for most people. 

Not to me mate, you have no idea how horrible bad luck magnet I am. 
Been unlucky in RNG all my life. It's why I hate it so much.

It's no secret I enjoy my vices... Gambling is one of them. 

Stick with me pal, you can absorb the bad luck and I'll split my winnings 70/20 with you.

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

Gothix said:

Karthos said:

RNG lends to a bit if danger in the game in small doses. It's a gamble, and gambling is fun for most people. 

Not to me mate, you have no idea how horrible bad luck magnet I am. 
Been unlucky in RNG all my life. It's why I hate it so much.

It's no secret I enjoy my vices... Gambling is one of them. 

Stick with me pal, you can absorb the bad luck and I'll split my winnings 70/20 with you.

I know it's all my bad and you gonna probably insult me for that, but i still wanna say it : 

I stopped count how much time i get so mad in the fucking AA regrade system, and i cant say how many time i sold all my gear or bought 1-5 apexs to try more, or even just get back what i yoloed ... It ruined my sanity bro, it was really bad for my health. I'm here to enjoy my time and be happy whith what i farmed for, not to destroy my keyboard, lose all my gear or waste lot of IRL money for shitty pixels.

I know AOC wont have p2w but still, i have horrible experience with RNG and im a freaking "casino addict" when it come about it ...

ArchivedUser

in truth, rng should be kinda a part of it in my opinion. before ya rage and throw furniture at me though, let me finish...   

improved grade has been in every game i can think of. but we have 2 levels of enhancements. in ESO, we have tempers from the raw materials, and while it's rng whether the item drops from refining the ore or plants etc. there's no challenge, all ya need is enough to guarantee improvement. 

then we have that nightmare RNG setup... my luck is a bit better than most, but that don't mean i haven't had my own frustrations... get 2 of the rarest items in game only to have them blow up because you have to enhance to get anywhere.... i hear ya...

what i propose, is why not have the improvement materials rng from mobs etc. the higher grade made rarer in drops, but ensure the enhancement costs as well? being careful of course not to turn the whole process into nothing but a year long grindfest.... it shouldn't cost real cash, it shouldn't cost sanity, and it shouldn't cost pc gear, like keyboards and the such just to get anywhere in game.

i'm sure it's been mentioned, or even touched on in the comments, did see some, but it's an idea either way. and we haven't even considered the trading system so far between areas, the tempers could be crafted to improve the items, and each areas could have stuff that needs to be obtained to combine and improve the armor/weapons?

ArchivedUser

Jaikant said:

Karthos said:

Gothix said:

Karthos said:

RNG lends to a bit if danger in the game in small doses. It's a gamble, and gambling is fun for most people. 

Not to me mate, you have no idea how horrible bad luck magnet I am. 
Been unlucky in RNG all my life. It's why I hate it so much.

It's no secret I enjoy my vices... Gambling is one of them. 

Stick with me pal, you can absorb the bad luck and I'll split my winnings 70/20 with you.

I know it's all my bad and you gonna probably insult me for that, but i still wanna say it : 

I stopped count how much time i get so mad in the fucking AA regrade system, and i cant say how many time i sold all my gear or bought 1-5 apexs to try more, or even just get back what i yoloed ... It ruined my sanity bro, it was really bad for my health. I'm here to enjoy my time and be happy whith what i farmed for, not to destroy my keyboard, lose all my gear or waste lot of IRL money for shitty pixels.

I know AOC wont have p2w but still, i have horrible experience with RNG and im a freaking "casino addict" when it come about it ...

In all seriousness, AA had a shit system that I avoided because I wasn't giving them any more money. I ran around in the level gear just below where it had a chance to break (Devine?).

So avoiding the P2W gamble made me a scrub.

ArchivedUser

SWG was like double jeopardy when crafting.  To even be asked to craft stuff you had to have CAP capable materials and capped components, work benches and every other bonus giving trinket you could get your hands on and it was still pure luck if you capped the final piece.  That said it did make capped weapons rare.  I had a pre typed macro letting potential customers know it was highly unlikely they would get a capped weapon if they handed over their max level augments.   Most people understood and were happy if you got within a few DPs of cap but some were furious. ho hum. SWG had the best crafting system I ever used but did I like that aspect?....  Hell no!

ArchivedUser

ArchivedUser

I fail to see the relevance of these all too common looking renditions of cute models with bows to the discussion...

The RNG vs. Farm argument I think is off-sided. While it would be awesome to gather/craft and succeed every time at every level, that leads to everyone have max gear and nothing besides rare/legendary drops being rare/legendary.

However, having to spend time to create all the materials needed and craft everything necessary prior to enhancement and then losing all of it for nothing is a grind fest. A frustrating time consuming little pay off grind fest.

I think it has been mentioned before where a hybrid system might be best. Also, if I understand what was said about crafting correctly, even maxed out gear will be somewhat unique per craftsman and purpose. 

If I play an epic sword-smith I want to be able to give my customers consistent and predictable results.

ArchivedUser

big issue in this topic is we could throw good ideas out all year, and still never agree. a hybrid system is probably the best way to go, but it combines the worst of both worlds, as well as the best. one way or another, peeps ain't gonna be happy lol.

i do want it to be unique, i definitely want it somewhat original, i don't want it too easy, but i do definitely want to keep my hair, and not feel the need to do a king kong rampage due to failing even the easiest enchantment 80% of the time. i'm sure this is something we can all definitely agree to. i'm itching to see what the dev's do

ArchivedUser

The most important is where exactly you include RNG, and where you include effort principles.

For example, effort should be included in gear upgrading (we all probably hate RNG upgrades that fail and totally waste all your time and effort).

RNG should be included in loot that bosses drop, it is exciting to not know what will drop and hope it's something nice for you.

So yes a hybrid system but with care what will be RNG and what will be effort based.

ArchivedUser

a healthy amount of both.