Having Reasonable Drops Rates

ArchivedUser

I would like to see loot tables that do not go under 2% for any one item.  

2%= 1 out of 50  since you could roll same number twice you might be doing that run 60 or 70 times. If it is a weekly event then it takes a year or more for drop but might get lucky.

Guess for Legendary Items might be lower than 2% but just as a reminder after you go below 2%  you might be doing a run over 100 times easy. 

What do you guys think? Do you guys think doing runs over 100 times to get one item is ok. I heard someone say if the drop rate is 1% that is about 163 times before you should expect to see it. 

I would also like  a system that if you had to roll for an item and you roll a 100 then the Random Number Generator goes to another loot table for chance to get extra item.

And lastly would like to see more than one way to get rare items not just tied to a single dungeoun or raid.

ArchivedUser

Depends on if there is a single item with a drop chance or if it is one of multiple. If you can get any one of N from a pool then the general dropchance (for the pool) should be higher than an item rolled on its own. Which can mean that an item in the pool can have a lower chance than if it was alone. And don't have only one possible item drop(roll). Not really being sure what you get from looting is part of what makes an MMO for me.
"Legendary" is in (old) WoW-speak just a probability marker. Nothing wrong with 1 in 1000 drops, but you can't balance the game around them - they will have to be OP then. WoW even have a necklace that only dropped once.

ArchivedUser

As far as I remember they plan to have items that can only exist once at the same time on a single server. With reeeally unique items or legendaries a drop chance that is really low is totally fine. Either this, or you have to work to get one of these items... like a quest, but if it is unique...first one wins.

With "normal" items, which still can be quite rare, I agree that the loot chances should not be too low. I do not want to grind a specific dungeon for a specific boss a hundred times. That is just tedious. Either there has to be an equal alternative, or I should have it after a regular amount of clearings. AoC should not need extremely low loot chances for "normal"-rare items to get players to play. There should be many other things to keep players busy.

ArchivedUser

I agree. Otherwise you might have too much of an Asian MMO-esque grind, which is what many people here are trying to avoid.

ArchivedUser

I still prefer farm than RNG.

ArchivedUser

They might go with combo system when some items drop by RNG and are rolled for (or master loot + DKP in some guilds), but even if don't get an item everyone still gets some tokens from the boss.

So even if you are unluckiest man on earth (that might be me and my lottery luck) you can still use number of those tokens after number of runs to get yourself some item from some NPC that trades for those tokens.

So basically everyone gets a token, and the luckiest people get instant item in addition to token (or by DKP).

ArchivedUser

I would hope that legendary items are not part of any rng drop table no matter how low. I would hope they are items that can only be acquired through very long and very well hidden quest chains or could possible be crafted after suitably long and epic quests with extremely hard/nearly impossible to obtain materials.

As for rng and gear drops, I would hope there is a reasonable chance that an item will drop, would be nice if there were some system in place that was able to recognise the classes present in a group and then drop something appropriate.

With most items not being boe or bop there may well be a very vibrant market in dungeon drops that can be sold on. You also need to remember a source of crafting recipe's will be the breaking down of items to learn how they are made. Thus items that initially only drop in dungeons may very well be crafted by someone at some stage you will just need the mats.  

ArchivedUser

I would hope legendary items (if getting them will be effort based) require from player being active in all areas of the game.

To get all (bound) components for legendary weapon you would personally have to show your good activity and achievement in: crafting, gathering, questing, general PvP and arena, bounty hunting, raiding, housing, etc.

One component gained from each area of the game. And only when you gather all components, you could start a process of forming your legendary weapon

ArchivedUser

With normal items I think that the drop rates should be modest.
However, for the really good items I would like to see a lower drop chance or even one kind of a item. I don't like how other games have went to just grind and everybody will get the best gear. With unique items it pushes everybody to strive for something.
One thing they could do is have one of kind items that only drop when a town is at its highest level and then breaks becoming un-repairable if the town drops below the highest level. This would allow for more then one person to own that unique item just not at the same time, or allow previous owners to keep the broken item as a trophy of sorts.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

I would hope legendary items (if getting them will be effort based) require from player being active in all areas of the game.

To get all (bound) components for legendary weapon you would personally have to show your good activity and achievement in: crafting, gathering, questing, general PvP and arena, bounty hunting, raiding, housing, etc.

One component gained from each area of the game. And only when you gather all components, you could start a process of forming your legendary weapon

I 100% agree with this legendary items should take many months if not years to obtain, and come from all aspects of the game.

ArchivedUser

  Varkun said:

Gothix said:

I would hope legendary items (if getting them will be effort based) require from player being active in all areas of the game.

To get all (bound) components for legendary weapon you would personally have to show your good activity and achievement in: crafting, gathering, questing, general PvP and arena, bounty hunting, raiding, housing, etc.

One component gained from each area of the game. And only when you gather all components, you could start a process of forming your legendary weapon

I 100% agree with this legendary items should take many months if not years to obtain, and come from all aspects of the game.

And then (you wake up) game gets an update with powerful normal-tier items, and your legendary yearlong quest, which you are about to finish, makes you regret, you even started that.  D

ArchivedUser

Awe said:
And then (you wake up) game gets an update with powerful normal-tier items, and your legendary yearlong quest, which you are about to finish, makes you regret, you even started that.  D

If legendaries will be number capped, then when update comes they can also be updated to receive new stats, and thus again remain on top.

We just need a way for people being able to lose their legendaries, and them coming into hands of new people.

Legendaries should be capped, but prone to circle around the population, if someone else also shows an effort and then is able to take over legendary from another player somehow (and no not by the money).

ArchivedUser

The legendaries do not need to be updated as a standard way in the workflow. They could just be designed to scale accordingly. So lets say an expansion drops with increased level cap. Your legendary will be just as good and usable on expansion-release with your old max level, you can use it while leveling up, it gets stronger and when you reach max-level, it still is the best item for that slot.

Sure, that could be read as "well that's boring, you never replace that slot" but we are talking about legendary, maybe even unique items, that you have to put a lot of effort into getting in the first place, spending months (or even over a year?) for. You got one... you know you do not want to replace it anymore. 

ArchivedUser

Rare stuff should have lower drop change
Stuff that is more rare than that should have even lower
Legendaries should not even have a drop chance
If everyone can have one, what's so Legendary about it?

ArchivedUser

Ziltch said:

Rare stuff should have lower drop change
Stuff that is more rare than that should have even lower
Legendaries should not even have a drop chance
If everyone can have one, what's so Legendary about it?

They should not have any sort of drop chance, Steve has given the impression that legendary items are just that legendary. Some people seem to be under the impression that legendary is just another tier of gear or something, well its not. They will require the efforts of whole guilds to obtain, and has been said there will be servers out there that may never uncover how to acquire them.

Before anyone says but information can be traded from one server to another, the information needed to set you on the path to obtaining a legendary item will require a specific set of events before any information can be uncovered. Such as a specific node being developed as a religious node then reaching metropolis stage with certain buildings in place etc. Thus information from one server will be next to useless on another.

As for a rise in the level cap, I would be very surprised if legendary items don't increase, lets face it its what makes them legendary in the first place. Don't be surprised if it takes years before you actually see your first legendary item in game and it will only be a lucky few who will every posses one.


But no drop chance for legendary items. 

ArchivedUser

My BDO PTSD is starting to flare up, oh no. I agree obviously. Drop rates need to be realistic/reasonable.

ArchivedUser

Nurph said:

The legendaries do not need to be updated as a standard way in the workflow. They could just be designed to scale accordingly. So lets say an expansion drops with increased level cap. Your legendary will be just as good and usable on expansion-release with your old max level, you can use it while leveling up, it gets stronger and when you reach max-level, it still is the best item for that slot.

Sure, that could be read as "well that's boring, you never replace that slot" but we are talking about legendary, maybe even unique items, that you have to put a lot of effort into getting in the first place, spending months (or even over a year?) for. You got one... you know you do not want to replace it anymore. 

This just makes all new content useless, if you can get an item, that will last for ages, you will eventually get it, and stop progressing. What you described is an achievement, one of many, not a legendary and usable item.

There simply can't be items, inaccessible for majority. Legendaries can have a short lifetime, as were mentioned gragons for mayors, pets from bosses. But not selfupdating limited in numbers, eternal items.

ArchivedUser

One way to have reasonable drop rates is having in game treasure chests.  If the loot table is to big just put the excess items in a treasure chest and make its own loot table. And have it drop in the same dungeoun.  Kind of like two drops from two different loot tables instead of two drops from one huge loot table.

ArchivedUser

Best way to deal with drop rates is to give different % depending on the monster we fight e.g. A mob in a dungeon has 1.5 % to drop a rare item but the elite mobs/boss have a higher chance to drop. It's also good if we can create most of the items in the game aside from the really rare artifact like gear, so putting a higher drop rate on materials (still low but maybe 5-10 % higher) would put a stop to a certain extent to grinding gear and doing repetative activities all the time.

ArchivedUser

Just as recap the situation I am trying to avoid is.  Grinding some non epic non legendery item  to complete my cosmetic look only to find out the drop rate is less than one percent. Could be avioded by utilizing loot tables smartly.Do not think it adds that much flavor to a game.

ArchivedUser

I acutally enjoy grinding, it's part of the fun, but it's best done in moderation. Well it often happens that the minute you need something the drop rate goes -100% xD

ArchivedUser

I would like Ashes to be like there is no 100 times going into the same dungeon, fighting the same boss 100 times. Because of the node system which will react to changes and change content... But its also not realistic to have 1 billion dungeons for every change made Maybe a lot of short dungeons/chambers that would be generated through these changes would do? Don't know...

I think some (not all or many) legendary items/quests shall be just findable (for one person). And the spots/items themselves should vary from server to server . Why? Because many people don't want to quit their reallife jobs or ignore their familiy but want at least have a slight chance to maybe somehow get something special. And everybody else has the chance to get that too. So it is not really unfair. Such items could be even breakable or usable so that they don't last forever... but maybe they will spawn again? At a totally different spot? Or never again? 

Just my thoughts
 

ArchivedUser

I think legendaries, if there is truly one of an individual item per server, should be both difficult to get and difficult to keep. An example could be a holy relic from the ancient past that someone digs up randomly. As long as that node has a divine settlement on it, the owner of the item is the leader of that node, and the item gives some nice buff to everyone in the node.
However, there could be a second legendary tied to that node -a great sword from the ancient past that someone has gone to great lengths to acquire. But as long as the node is Divine the legendary is not active. This would give the owner of this sword strong motivation to try to take down the existing city and rebuild it as a military one. 

ArchivedUser

I think they should tell everyone there are legendaries. Then not put them in. Let people drive themselves crazy thinking that others have a chance to get something that they are having no luck at. Drop the occasional link so that people think that characters are actually finding stuff, but always something like "I heard over on EU-East there is a guy with a magic doubloon token that gives him such-and-such." Let it build to a fever pitch, then release a set of legendaries with the same power level the highest tier gear gives, just a different color. Ultimate trolling.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

I think they should tell everyone there are legendaries. Then not put them in. Let people drive themselves crazy thinking that others have a chance to get something that they are having no luck at. Drop the occasional link so that people think that characters are actually finding stuff, but always something like "I heard over on EU-East there is a guy with a magic doubloon token that gives him such-and-such." Let it build to a fever pitch, then release a set of legendaries with the same power level the highest tier gear gives, just a different color. Ultimate trolling.

That's just plain harassment not trolling, meh i'd be fun to watch like: Legendary sword Excalibur can drop from goblins with a 0.01% chance - and then all you see is 1000+ players hunting goblins for something that never exists....

ArchivedUser

That actually happens in wow pallies among other players were trying to get the Ash Bringer from said boss but was never actually in game. Think Blizz finally had to step in and deny its existance.  Same thing happened with a cow level in Diablo.  There was an actual loading screen tip that said there is no cow level.  (Ash Bringer now in game all Pallies have one)

So if few people get together they could conceivabley compell someone to grind for an item that does not exist.  Be pretty cruel though. Would hate to be the victim of that joke.

ArchivedUser

It is pretty cruel but at the same time there is a sort of satisfaction from trolling people like that, ahh in moderation of course