Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
In fact they were initially created for that exact purpose - to replicate the pen and paper roleplaying experiences in a videogame.
Really what this discussion boils down to is either a patently nonsense argument of splitting population - everyone cant play on the same server so what does is matter if there are 1000 RP players on 10 servers or one server with 10000? - or an equally nonsense, and more depressing, argument of "if someone gets something, I want something too!"
Unfortunately this narcissistic individualism is what drives our society. If you have everything you want, and see someone else get everything they want, why does it bother you if they got something different to you?
I have an awesome car, but then my neighbour gets an awesome car, but their car has a sunroof. I don't want a sunroof because I don't like them, but I now feel somehow less fulfilled because I don't have one. Now I demand one for myself or somehow feel they shouldn't be allowed one if I can't have one.
This is a problem. If we have everything we want, why do we worry so much about what other people have?
@gundel All types of servers have low pops - that is more an indication of an entire population shrinking. Many, many PvE and PvP servers have had low pops and there have been numerous rounds of server amalgamations over the years. Singling out RP servers as somehow different is a little odd.
I am sure some of the big companies out there have some solid data on population numbers of different server types. I have no idea whatsoever of the percentage of a population that would designate themselves as RP players. What we can know is that there is clearly a large enough population for Blizzard to have listed multiple RP servers and kept them going for more than a decade.
The only reason I can think of Intrepid not wanting RP only server, is to not thin the player base over MANY servers. They also might thinking having RP in all servers as a normal stance rather than just giving them a few servers designated as RP. (There game they can do with how they see fit) this way less servers more node development and more conflict pillars of there game. Id rather see Que times for a server than see low population on all servers and see population shrinkage.
It would be interesting to see data on only RP players as percentage of the overall population on both RP servers and non RP servers from other games.
My idea:
Have just one server per region as planned AND put a RP tag near it's name.
There now community is not split up, and RP-ers know where to come.
If they have an RP server and all the RPers throughout the world leave to play on that one server the RPers get what they want by more people to RP with, and the PVErs and PVPers that believe the RPers are not competitive will get what they want by not having the RPers on their servers. Everyone would get what they want. Think of it like that.
What are the benefits? If the RP community is as small as people believe then it won't influence the other servers to have them spread out through them that bad. In the case that the RPers are actually a large population that means they will populate an entire server or two by themselves ensuring that activity will remain on that server.
So with scenario 1 you have an under populated server but it doesn't influence the pop of the other servers that bad. With scenario 2 you have an entire active server that are all trying to build the world how they see fit to shape the world in the way they want while the hardcore PVPers and PVErs will not have to "deal" with RPers who want to have more story driven game play.
Now I personally PVP and PVE and consider myself pretty decent in both. But RP has a special place in my heart. I have heard about grumbling of each of the three types of MMO gaming first hand while playing each of the three. The thing is that is if people want RPers on their servers then they should respect them and their style of gaming, the same with any of the other types of gaming.
But on an RP server the game changes drastically into something the devs could have never thought of or made possible. The RP community will further their servers, create lore, history, grand stories of battles, and make an immersive political system that would go beyond simple game mechanics or even this guild hates that guild, it would be something human, something evolving, and something unique.
Now I understand the hesitation of making an RP server but what does Intrepid have to lose? They have a lot to gain by giving the RPers a place to build and expand it will ensure that that servers story will grow in paths that other servers would not.
@gundel True, Intrepid need to get the balance of server numbers correct from the outset. This is the case whether they designate an RP server or not. If they come out of the gate with 100 servers and they only needed 20 then they are going to have to shrink down pretty quick,a dn it would also be slightly embarrassing. They should have the measure of what they need from the beta stages so I would hope this wouldn’t be a problem for them.
In something like WoW, the popularity waned, the playerbase shrunk by half over the course of a single expansion and then they needed to bring all those players together. They worked on allowing people to stay on the same server but then phased these using shards (or whatever they called them) but eventually they needed to just turn off a huge number of servers and consolidate the playerbase – for all server types: PvP, PvE and RP.
Population size and fragmentation is not an RP issue. The RP players will be playing the game, as I said what does it matter if 1000 are on ten servers or have 10,000 on one server? The only issue is if the RP playerbase is simply not big enough to sustain a single server. No one is asking for 10 out of 20 servers to be RP. Just the one. If the RP community cannot field enough people to warrant a high pop server then it should not exist. But this is not a figure that anyone currently knows. I tried to find some info, but the best I could find was Realmpop for WoW that lists the RP segment based on realm pop at 10.2%.
Intrepid are not going to do anything about designating an RP server without the input and the advocacy of the actual RP community (as has been done in this thread). As has been stated by those that actually do RP, these people won’t start coming out of the woodwork in great numbers until some of the Lore is released, as this is an absolutely critical aspect of a game for RP players. I applaud those players for advocating for something that will make their gameplay that much more fulfilling, exciting and compelling.
I will continue to support them as I believe that if something can be provided to a group of people to make their experience better, and that does not affect the experience of anyone else in a detrimental way, then it is simply silly not to do so.
If people want to do something different with likeminded people then just let them. It's not like their sacrificing babies or something.
The whole reason is to bring RPers together. Not keep others out.
Either way this discussion is starting to circle. I may be bias. But the arguments against RP servers are incredibly weak, and I feel have been answered
Troll.. you described a usual RPer, behaving differently from others...
So, for you troll games you need 2 letters in the server name, that's strange, I thought RPers had good imagination, and such thing as missing 2 letters wouldn't matter for them. Usually servers are called in a game lore logic. And you want to break this logic only because your imagination needs 2 letter drug to accept the server as your home? I guess, you can start playing on server called SeRPentarium or something like that.
I don't believe just 1 server was ever the plan.
RP tags in front of the server would make it easier for day 1 RPers to pick a server. And, even more so for those coming later.
The RP tags have nothing to do with imagination or lack thereof. Nothing is different in the server itself. Other than the fact that RPers know which server to pick.
As for why RP servers and no pve or pvp servers.
Well, RP is done outside of game systems. PvE and PvP are in-game systems. They will always happen, regardless. RP offers no such guarantee, as such, slapping an RP label on a server would bring like minded people together.
And let's be honest here. Without these servers the chances of finding RP are small. Given that some RPers on your server might be in enemy nodes.
The mentality behind this moaning for RP servers in direct contradiction to what Intrepid have announced smacks of entitlement and wishful thinking, and it's no different from those who endlessly moan about tab targeting in this game. The decision was made, and you're not some kind of majority shareholder/stakeholder who gets to force Intrepid to do things your way. It's about time you accept it and figure a way out on how to deal with it instead of continuing to clutch at wishful thinking.
I'm a roleplayer, and I'm frankly tired of watching this entitled whingeing continuing to make it to the front page. Personally, I'm drawing up plans for setting up a tavern with the prestige and status of The Savoy in London to facilitate a RP-friendly environment which makes it desirable for non-roleplayers to participate and be excellent to each other. Instead of wailing, gnashing your teeth and feeding your ressentiment to indulge in victimhood and persecution complexes which is oh-so-fashionable these days, you can try to get something done for a change.
And here we go again. Ad hominem doesn't suit you, the post is otherwise reasonably thought out.
Currently, our community, especially those active on the forums and or Discord, is rather small, I agree. This argument, I feel doesn't work either.
They already confirmed regional servers. Oceanic, NA, EU, etc. Now, if each of those regions get only 1 server, none of us are going to complain about a lack of servers with an RP tag. However, should there be more servers, an RP tag doesn't make a server special, or different. All it is, is a signpost. A signpost saying to RP'ers. This is where the like minded individuals are.
Additonally, I do not believe anyone claimed a majority. I think it's actually rather well known that RP'ers are in a minority. A pretty big minority. The argument that was made was that RP'ers, tend to stay subbed for longer periods of time. Without any disrespect to the PvE crowd, or the developers. But players eat through content a lot quicker than it can be produced. And, when the content is consumed, and possibly even farmed. A lot of PvE players will cancel the sub, until more content is available. I used to do that too.
Now, the PvP on the other hand, provided the nodes don't fall into an equilibrium of sorts. Will be there, always, because people want to siege other nodes, defend their own.
RP falls under the same category. In that during periods of content draught as it were. People will still continue subscribing, to further their character's story. Something which is NOT an in-game system.
Which means, if words gets around that the game is (for lack of a better word) friendly for RP. It means many people, whom are looking for a new game to RP in will give Ashes a try.
As I touched upon in an earlier post, my own WoW sub is active only for RP. And I know way too many others whom are in the same boat.
So again, an RP tag is convenient in a way, for both the RP community as well as intrepid. There are plenty of people who will roll on an RP server, even if they never RP. Nowhere does it state that they can't. Plenty of people prefer it, because the community itself, is, most of the time, a lot more laid back and chill.
And as a final note. I am aware, as I am sure most are. That Steven said there won't be RP servers. I can't really find any reasoning as to why.
Technically, RP servers aren't a design decision. And as this is pre-launch. Early Alpha etc. Now is an excellent time to discus this.
I have stated it before my reasoning is not to attack the devs to anyone else it is to bring RPers together to ensure the community survives and flourishes. If speaking my opinion and trying to make change during a time when change is possible is the best way to go about this. I will stand by my statements and explain time and time again why it is a good idea.
No skin off my back but since when did standing up for something and asking for change become someone is whining?
I rarely like to pull out this one from my file. To those who rarely emerge from the roleplayers' echo chamber, it hurts feelings and stings badly. I used to be like you: always asking for more. But when I first read this on late 2009, my mindset took a 180-degree about-face. Building more upon my experience as a player volunteer who produced and acted in in-game live events, that perspective of being on the other side and having to deal with roleplayers informed my decision on the about-face. It needs to be pointed out:
Developer Perspectives: Roleplay Servers are Hard
I'm going to quantify the problem here:
10% - Roleplayers rarely exceed this number as a proportion of the entire playerbase
10-25% - Extra workload for Customer Service in terms of service tickets, and this can spell hell for small companies where CS budgets are limited.
n - number of design demands/requests like expanded character entry limits in chat, ability to create chat channels, live events et al.
Important quote from a NCsoft developer on how MMO operators feel about RP servers:
That being said, I believe that we haven't done enough as an industry to provide our customers with tools that really support and enhance individual play styles. I'm talking about everything from better social tools to help manage and grow your guild and protect against griefing, and yes- offering significant ways for customers to tell stories of their own making.
This shouldn't be about devising new and interesting ways to fracture your communities, but building tools that make it easier for them to exist together."
It has to be stressed upon again, that Intrepid is a startup developer. This isn't Blizzard, EA or Zenimax where they have plenty of resources at their disposal and probably won't think twice about hiring two dozen more CS personnel at the drop of a hat. Roleplayers need to be aware that across the industry, they are seen as customers who are more likely to produce more workload per capita compared to their regular MMO gamer. Roleplayers are seen by developers as an extra burden they don't want to deal with if they had the choice. In my hotelier work IRL, I tend to be less willing to appease guests whom I know are most likely going to produce more work and grief than they're possibly worth. It's not nice in an ideal world, but that's how things are.
Steven didn't explain why there are not going to be RP servers, because it's likely he has consulted the MMO industry pros about it and most of them would have advised him to avoid the notion like the plague for the reasons above. He was simply diplomatic enough to hold back on the explanation.
Want your desires to be fulfilled by developers? Don't present yourselves to developers as problems. Offer solutions - become the solutions. That's what I'm pressing everyone in this thread to do instead of wailing about something which simply isn't going to happen.
Look, you said you're "not sure why literally anyone has a problem", and I presented you with said problem. If you're going to take hardball disagreement and criticism, then turn around and cry wolf about "trolling", then you weren't looking for a discussion. It only points to how you aren't interested in improving your circumstances, and you're just sitting there waiting for someone else to do it for you.
That link you provided was a nice, and very interesting read.
I however have comments regarding the premise.
First, it assumes, and starts from the point of view of company enforced RP rulesets. The entire premise seems to be build on the assumption of enforcing a different ruleset, and providing RP servers additional customer support. Which, for an indie developer like Intrepid, is not feasible. Plus, I do not think this is the game for that. As much as I like the idea, what we are asking for. And forgive me for using we, I am not the appointed spokeperson. I'm just a random RP'ers like the rest. What we ask for is, when the servers are released, to have one server (If multiple per region) per gegion have a RP tag. So that those who want to RP can easily find eachother, that's it. It's the same sort of server as all the others. It's not asking for a VIP treatment, it's not asking for RP enforcing rulesets, or rulesets that in anyway way are different from "normal" servers. It's essentially a regular server. The only difference is the name. So that RP'ers here, and those down the line (Assuming the game doesn;t flop) Can more easily find eachother.
Perhaps I missed something, on how this would increase running costs, or the cost of CS in general.
Even the developer quote mentioned managed. We are not asking for Intrepid to manage anything. RP'ers are quite self sufficient in a way. creating our own stories, characters, etc.
It's just the server name, that's it. A server name, nothing more, nothing less. A server name so that those who like to RP (as we are a minority) Can find eachother more easily(Or at all)
Are we asking the wrong questions?
These forums exist for feedback. Intrepid have stated on more than one occasion that they are actively seeking feedback from the community. The bullshit statement of "Intrepid have made the game so no one is allowed to question it" is not even supported by Intrepid themselves.
Context is required as there are some issues that are at the very core of the game and will not be changed no matter how hard people try (fast travel, no flying) and these are the issues that can be reserved for dismissal as "not gunna happen".
The title of this thread even has the word "humble" in it. The posts by those wishing for an RP server have been measured in tone and respectfully requesting a relook. Now it may very well be too early for such a request, as Intrepid are busy on other things, but I think it is ok to bring your issue to the fore and let it simmer in people's minds.
As has been stated, I can't see how any more resources need to be spent on an RP server as it does not require management. There is no need for a GM, the game mechanics police the player actions, not an individual. If non RPers roll on an RP server then so be it, nothing to stop that.
There should be no rules changes of any sort, just a tag for people to find each other. Why would an RP server automatically require more mods to police? Are they saying that RP players generate more tickets over trivial nonsense like people talking about cars or TV shows on an RP server?
I don't work in the customer service section of the MMO industry so I don't know. People do tend to be pretty stupid and petty in general so RPers might be no different and may very well create tickets about trivialities. Who says these should not just be ignored like the VAST amount of tickets the general populace generates about stupid things.
I don't know what the site is called, or if it is still there, but there used to be one for WoW tickets, that I assume mods had posted (with names blanked) and the stuff that people asked about was insane. Kind of like the people who call 911 to complain about their pizza not arriving. This is not an RP problem and should not be turned into one.
Almost everything that is mentioned in that article stems from an assumption that an RP server requires an RP Ruleset. This is completely unnecessary and no one has advocated for that. Sure there might be someone who slithers out to propose that somewhere down the line, but it isn't something that should ever be considered.
Another huge assumption with that article, and I really don't know what games they are talking about this occurring in, was that special content and events need to be created for RP players, because the game can't do it! I have not played a huge amount of MMOs, but this seems to be quite a ludicrous expectation.
Ashes is a game that will have its own dynamic storyline on each server that is generated by the actions of the players themselves. This is tailor-made for Roleplayers and is why a lot of them are excited for the game. Their roleplaying choices as an individual and a guild will be able to create a story. Sounds like heaven for a roleplayer. Once again, the game mechanics are doing the job of a GM.
All in all the article was an interesting read, but bore little relevance to what is happening here. I feel that it is incredibly outdated, having been posted 8 years ago, and the MMO industry as a whole has moved well past the issues mentioned therein. It honestly seemed like the developers quoted, or generated for comedic scenario purposes, created their own problem.
They made an assumption that RPers need to be treated differently, that the game itself needs to provide them with something special. They don't, they just need a place to find each other, because it enhances their gameplay. An RP server isn't creating anything special for RP players, it is just providing a big arrow saying "come here to play".
Forums cannot do this as the majority of MMO players never visit the official forums even once, not prior to release and not once they are playing.