Debuffs

ArchivedUser

After watching the Alpha 0 stream, I didn't like how the debuffs work.
The player cast the debuff and it either landed or it didn't (the mob resisted), maybe it depends on some stats, but still this kind of system puts luck element into combat, which should be based on skill.
With this debuff system you use a skill, it lands - you win, it doesn't - you lose. IMO it shouldn't be based on luck.

I realize the game is in early stage, just commenting on what is currently there.

Thoughts?

ArchivedUser

It's the same with every attack, it has a chance to miss based on stats such as evasion and/or accuracy. Part of the combat uses tab targeting so a little bit of RNG helps keep things interesting. 

ArchivedUser

I agree with @Elder things should have the ability to be dodged, parried, and your stats should reflect it. So if you built up resists etc it should reflect. Also since it is tab targeting so the RNG will keep you from being complacent.  You should never fully expect things to Always land. 

ArchivedUser

I personaly was never a fan of evasion/crit and other stats like that. As Deimos21 noticed it just gives a random/luck factor to the gameplay. Just cause its kind of default to have it in mmo's doesnt mean they have to do it as well. Mby someone can explain me whats good about evasion or crit .  

ArchivedUser

Sora_NGNL said:

I personaly was never a fan of evasion/crit and other stats like that. As Deimos21 noticed it just gives a random/luck factor to the gameplay. Just cause its kind of default to have it in mmo's doesnt mean they have to do it as well. Mby someone can explain me whats good about evasion or crit .  

Exactly my point. Debuff system like this makes combat totally based on luck. On top of whether the enamy evades or you crit you also need to hope your debuff lands - that's a lot of luck needed.

ArchivedUser

Deimos21 said:

Sora_NGNL said:

I personaly was never a fan of evasion/crit and other stats like that. As Deimos21 noticed it just gives a random/luck factor to the gameplay. Just cause its kind of default to have it in mmo's doesnt mean they have to do it as well. Mby someone can explain me whats good about evasion or crit .  

Exactly my point. Debuff system like this makes combat totally based on luck. On top of whether the enamy evades or you crit you also need to hope your debuff lands - that's a lot of luck needed.

That's an exaggeration, "totally based on luck". There will always be some RNG in combat, without it every fight would be the same. 

If someone built a high defence they would take less damage. 
If someone built a high evasion they would take less damage.

If someone built a high strength they would deal more damage.
If someone built a high crit chance they would deal more damage.

These stats do the same thing, it all depends on how you want to build your character.

ArchivedUser

Deimos21 said:

I think I disagree.  I believe they are already considering some level of crit, hit, dodge, parry, block, MISS.  I don't mind the luck aspect actually, I just feel it shouldn't be completely luck oriented.  Maybe a combination of how GW2 and WoW does their styles.  Skill and Luck combos can work together, and I think that would have a very unique feel to them.

ArchivedUser

"Luck" factor is quite fundamental for RPGs(mmo included)-im ok with it.
+ Some character "builds" and spells/skills also based on "luck"-and it's good for variativity.

ArchivedUser

To me it makes its more organic I mean if you cast a spell on someone who has spell resistance it should be harder to affect them than someone with no spell resistance 

ArchivedUser

Elder said:

That's an exaggeration, "totally based on luck". 

I agree with that ^^

Elder said:

These stats do the same thing, it all depends on how you want to build your character.

I dont agree on that. If you have lets pretend 30% crit on your spells or 30% evasion chance and you play against someone who has the exactly same stats its not unlikely that 1 of you hits 3 crits in a row while the other one doesnt hit 1 in the same time and that can decide a pvp match . The lcuky one wins. 

But as in real life i could live with winning or loosing from time to time cause of luck. Im not a fan of it but its ok to me.

ArchivedUser

That kind of luck always evens out in the long term and skill will always prevail.
One time you're the lucky one, one time you're not.

But people tend to only see when losing due to bad luck and when they're winning it's always their skill and never luck on their side

ArchivedUser

In DnD when you roll a 1 on a 1d20 you auto fail no matter your skill, when you roll a 20 on 1d20 you auto crit no matter their resistance. Seems like the system was to allow for a system similar to this.

Maybe 1d20 is too small of a range for a fast action game where many spells & attacks will happen in a short period of time, but the concept isn't new and some of us are very familiar with the concept.

Stats that are able to help resist OP attacks or CC's make them valuable for both PvP & PvE encounters. It is pretty frustrating playing a mage for example and to have an off spec melee who only choose a few powerful mage spells land them 100% of the time vs you. Surely as a mage, my skills in defending against an attack in which I have specialized in would reduce the chances of this happening.. logically.

IMO this system has merit.

ArchivedUser

Sora_NGNL said:

Elder said:

That's an exaggeration, "totally based on luck". 

I agree with that ^^

Elder said:

These stats do the same thing, it all depends on how you want to build your character.

I dont agree on that. If you have lets pretend 30% crit on your spells or 30% evasion chance and you play against someone who has the exactly same stats its not unlikely that 1 of you hits 3 crits in a row while the other one doesnt hit 1 in the same time and that can decide a pvp match . The lcuky one wins. 

But as in real life i could live with winning or loosing from time to time cause of luck. Im not a fan of it but its ok to me.

The thing about probability is It's usually accurate. There will be flukes where you just crit someone 20 times in a row but to do that consistently you'll have to sacrifice other stats.