amount of skills @ our disposal?

ArchivedUser

anything known about the amount of skills that we can use during combat?

I see only 1 bar of 8/9 slots on the vid

Is anything known?

ArchivedUser

What you see is what you get. 

ArchivedUser

serieus?

Everquest had how many skills/spells?

I thought we were going that direction?

ArchivedUser

You can have lots of skills, just can't have them all at once. 

ArchivedUser

They have stated that you will have a plethora of skills to chose from. The UI you see in livestreams is not indicative of what the UI will be once it is more developed. While you may not be able to skill into every skill at the same time, there were be choice between tab targetted skills and action skills, or mix and match as you like.

ArchivedUser

sweet ok tthx

ArchivedUser

Copperfield said:

serieus?

Everquest had how many skills/spells?

I thought we were going that direction?

8 skills that could be memorized for use with the plethora of hundreds of spells ( most of which were upgraded versions of their predecessors) being in your spell book that you could unlearn and relearn.  From what I saw in the vid I think they are at least going that route in terms of the spell/skill book use

ArchivedUser

damn that's kinda dissapointing..what is wrong with the old school 40 skills/spells on your hotbars? combat is not gonna be very indepth then with only 8 spells to use.. 

ArchivedUser

There's a reason most games has abandoned that system. You can still make meaningful and complex combat without having 40 skills cluttering your screen. Think of it more like building decks and swapping between sets when needed. I doubt we will always use the same 8-9 or whatever they choose amount of skills. From what they've said you'll have access to many skills but they want you to make meaningful choices about which to use (tailor your gameplay etc). I won't miss the cluttered UI from old games, but I can respect those that want it. Ashes is probably just not for those people.

ArchivedUser

Tera . . . I love tera and it is my favorite mmo of all time, but the amount of skills needed for some classes (sorcerer and warrior) can get a little ridiculous, when they revamped the chained skills a couple years back it definitely helped a lot but it can still get ridiculous

So I definitely understand where people are coming from but Neverwinter was a really fun mmo and they had a similiar system (Edit) as AoC 

ArchivedUser

I think a mix of more than 8 but less than a cluttered UI but its hard to tread that line. I think at least double the spells. The less skills and just having to wait for cooldowns on them ( makes you only autoattack) Also makes rotations really easy. If you have multiple different rotations for different things it could also increase the skill cap. But once again without getting out of hand, is a difficult line to tread.

ArchivedUser

I was under the impression there was not going to be an auto-attack, but I could be wrong. I was in a thread several months ago where that was discussed.

For me the 1 hot bar worth of skills/spells/attacks is enough. I would like to have many more options to choose from both in leveling and rigging my hotbar, but I like the thought of having to customize the hotbar for the adventure.

Skillset for the under-realm
Skillset for caravan guarding/raiding
Skillset(s) for solo dungeons
Skillset(s) for group dungeons
and so on...

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

I was under the impression there was not going to be an auto-attack, but I could be wrong. I was in a thread several months ago where that was discussed.

For me the 1 hot bar worth of skills/spells/attacks is enough. I would like to have many more options to choose from both in leveling and rigging my hotbar, but I like the thought of having to customize the hotbar for the adventure.

Skillset for the under-realm
Skillset for caravan guarding/raiding
Skillset(s) for solo dungeons
Skillset(s) for group dungeons
and so on...

What I am hoping is that they go the route of tera's hotbar system and allow you to setup all those skillsets and be able to toggle between them at the flip of a hat

ArchivedUser

One hotbar, but...
The weapon key can have as many as five weapon abilities for advanced weapons.
And the other 9 abilities can be augmented so, really more like 20+ abilities available just from that one hotbar.
Ashes doesn't have auto-attack.

ArchivedUser

Gotta say im a little disappointed if we are only gonna have the one action bar, nothing that will stop me from playing the game but i just happen to be used to games with many more. On average i think i have somewhere between 30-40 keybinds setup on current MMO's and that feels nice, its not cluttering and it gives you a good variety of abilities for different scenarios.

ArchivedUser

Old school might be the new norm...

ArchivedUser

I normally lean to enjoying around 20ish keybinds to worry about, but if they make good use of the combo system I could get down with 10ish binds.

I hope they don’t make your “combo” end by pressing another ability, and that you have enough time to squeeze in another ability before continuing the combo. I always enjoyed auto attack weaving, and let’s be honest this is just a different take on auto attack. By providing buffs based off of combo levels, and then weaving abilities into them you can create rather in-depth rotations with this currently limited active spell pool. 

ArchivedUser

if the problems that people mention here is the cutter of the GUI orso?  you can look @ black desert online, where they have lots of combo's and/or skills to use with keystrokes.

for me this is the best sollution. activate skills through keystrokes.. little bit worried that the combat will suck balls without having the tools to make the combat dynamic

ArchivedUser

most MMO are keybinds, so u bind ctrl/alt etc and numbers also you bind specific keys, You most likely wont have a BDO way of doing things. Dont expect that to be the case. 

ArchivedUser

its a solution to the current development..

Example: pressing down down + e does a forward slash.. this aint the same as binding keys to skills.. this setup comes from console gaming.. it would be a fine solution to the problem of having 40 skills on the screen

ArchivedUser

Calling it a solution indicates there is a problem. I don't think there is a problem to be solved here. Again, I don't mind only having 10 options during any given combat and switching them out in between areas/task/etc.

There are a lot of good options mentioned in this thread and I can see IS putting out a final product with some of those options instead of a 10 key only. Until then their choice of 10-key bind, imo, is not a problem/issue.

Lot's of things are going to be different in Ashes, that's one of the reasons there is such a large crowd engaged in the community a year or more out from a possible release

[edit: I am really struggling with their/there/they're this morning]

ArchivedUser

Copperfield said:

damn that's kinda dissapointing..what is wrong with the old school 40 skills/spells on your hotbars? combat is not gonna be very indepth then with only 8 spells to use.. 

Only 8 spells to use!? I can barely use half of those at any time. I think 8 spells is more than enough imo.

ArchivedUser

While I don't mind the keystroke system of BDO, I feel there is more of a learning curve involved with BDO's combat system than any other MMO I played which while not necessarily a bad thing for all can be a bad thing for some of the older members of the gaming community.  I enjoyed the EQ style of traditional 8 ( they added 4 more spell slots in a later expansion coming to 12 total skills/spells) and being able to swap out as needed.  In a later expansion from classic they implemented a 'Save Spell Set/Load Spell Set' option to your spellbook negating the need to flip through the pages of your spell book to find a certain spell which was great and is something I would love to see here if they decide to go with the EQ Spell/Skill system.  It would help the playerbase as a whole adapt to the changing environment or combat situation smoothly without pulling their hair out trying to figure out what spell is best hehe ( see @whitedude31 's post for reference ) .

Still intending to play regardless of what combat system they use though

ArchivedUser

Currently I think only 8-12 skills are really needed. With you getting an augment per sub-arch type, and each sub-arch getting like 2 (or maybe more) "theme" type (look here for more in-depth theorycrafting: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/36462/theory-crafting-class-core-identity-allocation) you get roughly 16-24 skill augmentation (not including race, religion, guild/creed, node, ect...) also those are the skills that you've selected (the 8-12) that are on your hotbar don't forget that there will probable be "skill trees" where the actual total number of skills available to select from is higher, but what you have on your hotbar is a bit more limited. 

This limitation forces one to really be selective in what skills and augmentations they have. You will also "feel" different compared to others in your same "role". If you're a tank, but instead of choose to use a bard subclass (based on above mentioned link) you will have more Inspiring/Condition augmentation and make you feel different compared to a cleric augmentation (Defic/Healing). 

So if your concern is there are not enough skills to select from, with augmentation you can really start to see how skills variance starts to get a little crazy in number of variations your skills can take even if you only have "8 to 12" of them on your hotbar. 

ArchivedUser

i am still talking above useable skills during combat.. in the background you may make a choice of 100+ skills/trees or whatever.. but the depth of combat relies on the tools giving during combat.. meaning when you have only 8 skills/spells to use during combat it will play like a moba. if you limit the choice of tools(skills/spells) during combat gameplay..you cant have indepth teamplay and/or gameplay..  good example of boring combat is gw2

ArchivedUser

I think you might be confusing opinion with fact. In depth game-play/combat is likely not the same for everyone. There are lots of other threads that also discuss reasons why combat will not be immersive/awesome/etc. Those are all opinions.

ArchivedUser

If there are say 50 spells per class, and you get to pick and choose. I want to be able to choose 30 ish. That would mean that it is going to be a jack of all trades type deal. And I won't get many of the secundary effects others may choose. But being limited to 8 at any given time. That's going to suck hard. It'll feel more like an action game than an RPG at that point. 

ArchivedUser

In a lot of the old RPGs like D&D, and even in some new ones like Divinity: Original Sin, you are limited in how many abilities you could bring to any given fight. It doesn't make them feel like any less of an RPG. They are some of the best RPGs made in my opinion. That feeling comes from the rest of the game and the ability to customize your character however you want. As long as we can make diverse builds that are impactful, I don't think it matters if we have an action bar of 8 or of 30.

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

I think you might be confusing opinion with fact. In depth game-play/combat is likely not the same for everyone. There are lots of other threads that also discuss reasons why combat will not be immersive/awesome/etc. Those are all opinions.

this is  fact.. giving less tools to the player during combat will involve into less indepth combat... cant be any clearer then this

ArchivedUser

Lots of skills are nice but I hope to see less clutter. The arch-type specific spells should become more fine tuned with different classes. For instant bard may have music oriented ability's, these abilities will be very different from another class I hope. 

ArchivedUser

Copperfield said:

Azathoth said:

I think you might be confusing opinion with fact. In depth game-play/combat is likely not the same for everyone. There are lots of other threads that also discuss reasons why combat will not be immersive/awesome/etc. Those are all opinions.

this is  fact.. giving less tools to the player during combat will involve into less indepth combat... cant be any clearer then this

Not a fact, an opinion.
Many awesome RPG's some with great combat only give you the options available on a cross button. You have to go into your inventory and switch gears if the fight is not going your way. That, to me, makes combat more in-depth. Always having a button ready for everything, imo, makes combat cheap and lazy.