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Poor Combat Animation's

So I've been watching very close to the development of AoS. I haven't invested yet, because current combat looks... well kind of awful. Combat seems slow and extremely clunky. The combat animations are lack luster.

So will combat animations and style be improved? Poor combat animation and systems are a deal breaker for me. I want this game so f**king much... So please someone tell me combat's going to get a huge upgrade into the 21st century.

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Comments

  • It has been stated a few times in videos and by Steve that the animations and combat aren't final, there is still a lot of work left to do.
  • Narys said:
    It has been stated a few times in videos and by Steve that the animations and combat aren't final, there is still a lot of work left to do.

    Thank God!
  • Some of the actions I've seen have been rather poor but a lot are not bad at all.
  • The game still has a year or mores development left before we even see a beta..

    its WAY too early to start worrying about these things this early in development. 
  • pre alpha ........ *drops the mic*
  • its WAY too early to start worrying about these things this early in development. 
    It's never too early to get into the panic mode. :neutral:
  • Combat was already looking better than Archeage even tho they said it was just the first iteration of animations and no the even the final batch, tho I agree it still looks clunky but I have no doubt they will improve on it!
  • The combat looks slow but I heard it feels much faster when actually playing. But I don't know so don't take my word for it.
  • The game is only in Alpha 0, the first official testing phase (alpha 1) is set for Q3, Q4 of 2018, most of what you see in streams and videos is what they managed to put together for testing purposes and they are still working on it.
  • You don't polish a stone before shaping it.

    Right now they are still in the stage of lets get this to work reliably and make sure it doesn't randomly drop me through the floor. Once mechanics, damage calculations, and so on are solid then they can worry about making the fireball casting look beautiful
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited February 2018
    Why are people worrying about things that should be finished much much later in development?
  • I've seen Alpha Zero for other MMOs and AoC is by far the best it could possibly be at such an early stage of developement.
    This is by no means an exuse not to be critical, however, it is certainly not a red flag.

    The break-neck speed at which these crowdfunded MMOs are charging forward is astounding.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited February 2018
    I am glad this is being discussed and that some recognize how important this is to a game's success. I believe animation is a very strong part to why WoW was and is so successful. Even though WoW's  actual graphics isn't that great, the animation is top notch. Good job, OP! Onward!
  • It's in alpha 0, we are nowhere near the final product. Keep up.
  • Falmin said:
    Why are people worrying about things that should be finished much much later in development?
    I feel like this is something that should be addressed early on. It's stated that Ashes is a high PvP/PvE combat game..

    Why should they leave one of the key elements to a successful game till "much much later in development"?

    Combat system should be one of the first things addressed and perfected. Doesn't make sense to leave a crucial element of the game till the last minute..
    As OP stated, poor combat systems are a deal breaker for many, myself included. (Even though I already invested :P) 
  • Flameh0t said:
    Falmin said:
    Why are people worrying about things that should be finished much much later in development?
    I feel like this is something that should be addressed early on. It's stated that Ashes is a high PvP/PvE combat game..

    Why should they leave one of the key elements to a successful game till "much much later in development"?

    Combat system should be one of the first things addressed and perfected. Doesn't make sense to leave a crucial element of the game till the last minute..
    As OP stated, poor combat systems are a deal breaker for many, myself included. (Even though I already invested :P) 
    The animation is just aesthetic, let them make sure the skill is responsive and the effect works as intended, then make it look cool.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited February 2018
    I really hated the combat in the PAX test for example but when Alpha zero came and i saw the changes, polish etc. simply in the small months between PAX and alpha zero... it already was 15 times better.
    So if they continue like that i feel like it can become alot more better even
  • Flameh0t said:
    Falmin said:
    Why are people worrying about things that should be finished much much later in development?
    I feel like this is something that should be addressed early on. It's stated that Ashes is a high PvP/PvE combat game..

    Why should they leave one of the key elements to a successful game till "much much later in development"?

    Combat system should be one of the first things addressed and perfected. Doesn't make sense to leave a crucial element of the game till the last minute..
    As OP stated, poor combat systems are a deal breaker for many, myself included. (Even though I already invested :P) 
    The animation is just aesthetic, let them make sure the skill is responsive and the effect works as intended, then make it look cool.
    Uhm, yeah.. So pretty much get the combat system addressed first? I don't know who you're siding with here since you're kind of just pointing out something we all already know lol 
  • Flameh0t said:
    Flameh0t said:
    Falmin said:
    Why are people worrying about things that should be finished much much later in development?
    I feel like this is something that should be addressed early on. It's stated that Ashes is a high PvP/PvE combat game..

    Why should they leave one of the key elements to a successful game till "much much later in development"?

    Combat system should be one of the first things addressed and perfected. Doesn't make sense to leave a crucial element of the game till the last minute..
    As OP stated, poor combat systems are a deal breaker for many, myself included. (Even though I already invested :P) 
    The animation is just aesthetic, let them make sure the skill is responsive and the effect works as intended, then make it look cool.
    Uhm, yeah.. So pretty much get the combat system addressed first? I don't know who you're siding with here since you're kind of just pointing out something we all already know lol 
    He is arguing that animation should be worried about after the combat system is finished or mostly finished, so not this early in development.
  • Thinking the combat looks unfinished or "kinda awful" is like walking into your house when its being built and thinking that the walls look kinda awful.

    There is a natural order to things in everything in life.  In a house you build the frame, then you pull the electrical into the rooms, pull any plumbing you need through the rooms, then insulate, put up drywall, cut in fixtures, paint, install fixtures, install carpet, install baseboards and window trim, etc.  You don't install the carpet first and then paint, because that's just an accident waiting to happen.

    The same thing here.  The looks of an MMO can always be fixed closer to the end, but horrible systems, mechanics, etc stay horrible.

    As my TI used to say "you can spend all day shining a pile of shit, but at the end of the day all you have is shiny shit"

    I'd rather have solid gold that is polished at the end, then a shiny turd.  

  • I blame steam for people not understand the difference between an alpha and a "alpha"
  • Jahlon said:
    Thinking the combat looks unfinished or "kinda awful" is like walking into your house when its being built and thinking that the walls look kinda awful. ...

    This is more along the lines of walking into your house while it is being built and thinking the doors don't look right. Everyone keeps reassuring you that everything will be okay because the doors get put in later and of course they will be fine. Then, when the house is finished you find out all the doors are too small, open the wrong way, and look like shit in general.

    Yeah, you have a nice dream house now, but you will spend every day loathing those damn doors and dealing with the frustration they bring until you finally just sell the damn house and look for another.
  • I totally tried to get your username before settling on this one. 
  • Jahlon said:
    Thinking the combat looks unfinished or "kinda awful" is like walking into your house when its being built and thinking that the walls look kinda awful. ...

    This is more along the lines of walking into your house while it is being built and thinking the doors don't look right. Everyone keeps reassuring you that everything will be okay because the doors get put in later and of course they will be fine. Then, when the house is finished you find out all the doors are too small, open the wrong way, and look like shit in general.

    Yeah, you have a nice dream house now, but you will spend every day loathing those damn doors and dealing with the frustration they bring until you finally just sell the damn house and look for another.
    Umm . . . I wanna meet the guy that sells his house BECAUSE OF THE DOORS. Because he has MANY mental problems not related to those doors. I can take a door off the wall/hinges with screwdriver/hammer and replace it. I am horrid when it comes to house and car maintanence tbh :neutral:
  • Just imagine walking into Disney Studios while all they have up is a story board of the animation of classics like "The Jungle Book," or "Pinocchio," and thinking these movies are horrible.

    That's the difference between Alpha and Release.
  • Jahlon said:

    Umm . . . I wanna meet the guy that sells his house BECAUSE OF THE DOORS. Because he has MANY mental problems not related to those doors. I can take a door off the wall/hinges with screwdriver/hammer and replace it. I am horrid when it comes to house and car maintanence tbh :neutral:
    I worked selling security systems as well as audio and home theater systems for commercial and residential clients. You would be amazed how often people build and then turn around and sell houses. Just imagine you are spending anywhere from $400k-$2mil on a house to be built. You would absolutely be pissed if you spent all that money and then had to turn around and repair the house before even moving in. Not to mention my analogy made the point that some of the doors weren't the right size and that can't easily be fixed, if it even possible in some situations.

    My overall point was that the OP was right to be worried about the state of combat. Many, although not all, games that have been given high praises for their incredible combat mechanics typically had them in place well before any art assets were added and even before they were revealed to the public. Think Destiny, Halo, Overwatch, Bayonetta/DMC, Dark Souls, etc. These games have incredibly designed combat and controls that were in place well before anything was shown to the public.

    I know AoC is an MMO that went to KS to get stretch funding, but the initial development funding is supposed to have been in place well before KS as has been stated by Steven several times. KS was meant to add features and stretch goals to the game not core mechanics. I think that is at least warranted to have an open discussion about combat before we get too far along the development process.

    Also remember, we are all here this early in the development of this game because we all want it to succeed.
  • So the walls can be falling over and the roof caving in and the whole building subsiding, but as long as the doors are the right size and look pretty ?

    Those kind of details go on a snagging list between the contractor and the client. They are addressed before hand over, after the rest of the building is done. Survey is 1st, then structural, then architectural/mechanical/electrical. And quite often that architectural detail has to change if the mechanical and electrical services wont work and cant be routed. Function before beauty.

    That said. There is nothing wrong with Intrepid showing 'proof of concept' or demos to allay fears of capability. So they have gone out of their way to show proof of concept work as part of their milestones and 'open development' philosophy. They are more than capable of creating top notch animations and they can also be done retrospectively if need be, without any issue to game functionality.

    Be thankful all this is not done behind closed doors as any other developer does.
  • Taking my follow up analogy to an extreme in the other direction, and out of context doesn't strengthen your argument.

    The point I was making, and the OP, isn't that the animations are the problem, but that the combat doesn't look exciting. I believe this is where the disconnect between discussions in this thread are coming up. This mostly comes from the lack of abilities shown so far, and the fact that they don't interact with each other at all. We have yet to see what buffs and debuffs abilities will give. Does the mage get bonus damage for chaining fire spells, or do they lose bonus damage for changing elements? Does the cleric do increased damage the lower in health they become, or do they heal more the lower in health their target is? What is the rhythm of each class' abilities? Things like that are what is missing from the combat right now. It gets to the heart of the issue I know I have with the combat so far.

    AoC doesn't have to have crazy fight animations like BDO, and it can use classic tab targeting for everything if they wanted to. The real depth of combat comes from ability interactions and resource management. So far, we have only seen the now hidden "timing bar", and I have to say that I'm completely glad they are rethinking the timing bar because that never looked engaging or practical in my opinion.
  • All of which have little to do with animation (cosmetics) and everything to do with combat mechanics.
    Everyone wants more meat on the bone regarding combat mechanics. Hell any meat on the bone would be good :wink:
    It will come. They appear to be getting fundamental systems up and tested at the moment. The rest is just place holders and video streams of overall intent.
    I know patience is hard....but you will have to suffer with the rest of us for now.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited February 2018
    So, according to the original doors example, because the game looks unpolished in pre-alpha it will always be shit and only the buyers (not the builders) care enough to look into the problem and fix it or wait until it's done to bail?

    Just because other games took the time to polish the system before they released it to the public doesn't mean they were never at the same stage Ashes is at the moment.

    Just because the funding was in place does not mean the system was ready to go. They wanted to secure stretch funds first to know what all they needed to focus on for release.

    I would like to give IS more credit than not being able to tell something is *shit* before they release. Sure, everyone can think of failed counterexamples with other games but that's always true. Hating all dogs because one has previously bitten you is a little excessive, imo.

    Everyone is free to voice their concerns, everyone is free to challenge them...
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