No "Bad Guy" Main Class Type

ArchivedUser

You have Badguy lategame Classtypes. But no Badguy Startgame Class Types.

I don't want to be a goody two shoes cleric healer for most of the game before I get to play my Bad guy Necromancer. There completely different play styles and even character arche types.

What if I want to be A Knight, that uses Death (Anti Paladin etc)? You have no starter class that allows me to combine this.

Add "Warlock" as a starting class. This will fix the issue. And allow you to start as a Bad guy, and End as a Bad guy.

(See my other post, which needs aproval for more clarification). But basically this is a severe disparity where the player is forced to play most of the game as an Archetype they do not want to play, before being allowed to "Be Bad".

There are a lot of players that will look at the class-list and go.. Wheres my Evil Main Spec for my Character? and Not finding one, Move on to another game. A lot of People do not want to play a Cleric for example, before they become a Necromancer. Or when Playing a night only have the option to be a paladin, (Goody Two Shoe) But no the option to be an Evil Knight.

Adding "Warlock" as a Main starting class will Fix this. As a Warlock typical deals in Chaos, and Dark Magic (Life Drain, CC, Fear, Some sort of Hellfire or whatever AOE maybe, You Know basically an Evil Mage).

ArchivedUser

That is because they made an active choice back on homeworld to kill all your "evil" classes and not let them through the portal. Once free on Verra they can become "evil" after an appropriate amount of time (level 30) and they make an active choice to serve the gods of corruption, not the gods who opened the portals and let them through. People are reading waaay to much into class names. Take the list, make your own, call yourself an Oompa Loompa, no one is going to be upset or care. Until the secondary "flavor" system from archetypes is released it is all just speculation and pearl-clutching that gains you no followers.

ArchivedUser

They should make the list of abilities and spells etc available then. It's hard to pick when you have no idea what each one does, and several of the starter classes are Very similar. 

Fighter/Tank (Basically the same exact thing)
Rogue/Ranger (Basically the same exact thing)
Mage/Summoner (A mage can summon stuff).

So you have at least 6 of the main classes that are Identical. Hard to tell whats what.

ArchivedUser

Since they have only completed 4 of 8 it is indeed hard. The best thing to do is to wait until they actually release the other 4 archetypes to see how they are different. And then wait for them to release information on how a secondary class will "flavor" the primary.

ArchivedUser

As others have pointed out, the class system certainly lacks the darkness/death/doom/fear/lifetap/blood-magic element.

It appears there is no basis for the traditional Necromancer and Shadow Knight classes. An AoC Necro is Summoner/Cleric...seems odd. The closest thing I can see to the Shadow Knight class is Tank/Rogue...also seems odd.  

I can't imagine they won't have mechanics like fear and lifetaps in the game, so those skills will almost certainly have to be rolled into the Rogue or Mage class.

My guess: if you want to start evil, start as a Rogue. Many of the classes with that archetype contain the words "shadow" or "night". A Nightspell seems like it will be especially nasty.

ArchivedUser

Mage is a neutral, and rogue is in truth supposed to be a criminal type of class(Rogue basicallly means scoundrel/someone who operates outside of the accepted norm). So this does not concern me overly much. My issue is as -

nscheffel said:

As others have pointed out, the class system certainly lacks the darkness/death/doom/fear/lifetap/blood-magic element.

It appears there is no basis for the traditional Necromancer and Shadow Knight classes. An AoC Necro is Summoner/Cleric...seems odd. The closest thing I can see to the Shadow Knight class is Tank/Rogue...also seems odd.  

I can't imagine they won't have mechanics like fear and lifetaps in the game, so those skills will almost certainly have to be rolled into the Rogue or Mage class.

My guess: if you want to start evil, start as a Rogue. Many of the classes with that archetype contain the words "shadow" or "night". A Nightspell seems like it will be especially nasty.

But I am hoping that they will let the advanced class decide a bit more than what has been hinted at. Otherwise, this game will be sorely lacking in diversity(my currently greatest worry). I don't expect them to do a 200% rework the platform at once, just a slight change(from the base we've seen so far) to set the prescedent. To allow darker types of class-aspects to develop more, later on. Even as synergistic effects develop for spells and skills.

ArchivedUser

Yes, a game where you have only see 4 of the 8 main archetype trees, and 0 of the 64 Class Combinations and how they work together is totally lacking in....

Wait....  No idea what its lacking it.

Let's wait a few more months till they've released enough stuff on the class system before we jump to any conclusions.

ArchivedUser

I mean, the title of this thread is kind of badbut, I kind of agree a bit.

Let's take one of my old favorite MMO's, Dungeons and Dragons online and see, they've got a wizard tree you can go down that makes you take undead forms, immune to healing, use your own negative energy spells for healing, summon undead creatures and be able to heal your summons. Focus on necromancy and improve your DC in those spells. 

Pretty fun and you could be that, undead character who does everything deathly. But I was a cleric main, and was looking for something of an undead priest, that's just me and it'd been something I was looking forward to in DDO since ages long past, alas, I haven't played the game in quite a while now.

Still, you've got those edgy players that like to be sickly, evil bastards. Death Knights, Necromancers, Liches, Warlocks, they're pretty cool, I think we just have to wait and see how different and how pronounced these branching classes are.

ArchivedUser

Games will always have badboi classes 

ArchivedUser

Putting labels on classes such as 'bad' or 'good' is stupid, you decide whether you are good or bad, sure things like Paladin scream 'good' and Necromancer screams 'bad' but what about everything else ? (not going to bother naming all of them). Regarding the cleric class, that just means a priest no one said that a cleric has to be good, it's all up to you in the end.

ArchivedUser

The classes designate playstyle and abilities, the player designates good and evil.To suggest all Clerics or Paladins have to be good in a fantasy game would be about the same as to suggest all priests have to be good in real life, and we all know that's not true.

ArchivedUser

Jahlon said:

Yes, a game where you have only see 4 of the 8 main archetype trees, and 0 of the 64 Class Combinations and how they work together is totally lacking in....

Wait....  No idea what its lacking it.

Let's wait a few more months till they've released enough stuff on the class system before we jump to any conclusions.

Or...

We could talk about what we want to see before it comes out. You know...the reason these forums exist and everything.

ArchivedUser

It sounds like you want to RP or have RP themes and that is solid but the truth the that issue is that if you want to play something of a morality class that can be done with each of them to various extents even despite their mechanics.

I will give some examples for just the starting 8:

Tank - While you may be the "protector" of the party you do not have to do it for free. Charge gold to provide your bulky mass of protection and either attack those that won't pay you or leave them waiting on your whims. Demand loot or other rewards for your continued compliance.

Fighter - Similar to the Tank but in this you can be a bit more proactive. Be the bandit leader. Heading the charge to cut swaths of destruction to the caravans or run extortion scams.

Rouge - I don't think this need to be really elaborated on but just don't play a "thief with a heart of gold" and you should be plenty 'bad' for what you are looking for.

Ranger - Stalk your prey, be a hunter of the most dangerous game (man), or otherwise be a nature crazed person who wants to run off all other from "your" lands who would spoil the wilderness or muscle in on your territory showing the full fury of your animal traits. 

Cleric - A little bit harder but you just have to think outside the box. You can do a mercenary thing similar to the tank or push an agenda such as people must comply with certain behaviors or rituals to receive your boons. Basically start a cult. And if your cult is enough fun you can get others involved and create a situation where people in a node run out of non-cult Clerics and thus must conform to your demands. Make them strange or greedy, such as "Give me gold for healing" or "Throw a PvP fight to me showing your willingness to bleed."

Mage - Similar to the rouge you just don't play a good guy. Be obsessed with magic or power at any expense.

Summoner - Think of yourself as enslaving your summons as opposed to working with them. Basically its evil pokemon.

Bard - Trump. Basically be Trump. Make up stories, lies, or otherwise use rumors to do you damage. This is going to likely be a buff/debuff based class so just focus on the debuffs.

---
Now if your overall concern was the lack of negative energy, purple void particles, and blood magic just alter your mental head canon and assume that those things are not novice skills or practices. You start out as a Mage before you become a Warlock, or as a Rouge before a Cultist. Don't try to start as Gul'dan but rather someone who plays like an evil person before they find the ancient tome of unspeakable power.

ArchivedUser

But, but, but... Even a Paladin can be evil... Look at Arthas (Warcraft) when he gets a hold of the Frostmourne! He was an evil Paladin. Fighters can be evil. Even f*cking healers can be evil - not healing you when you are about to die. Why do you take the names so seriously? What is important is the skills that they have, not the name - the name is just a cosmetic.

ArchivedUser

Now if your overall concern was the lack of negative energy, purple void particles, and blood magic just alter your mental head canon and assume that those things are not novice skills or practices. You start out as a Mage before you become a Warlock, or as a Rouge before a Cultist. Don't try to start as Gul'dan but rather someone who plays like an evil person before they find the ancient tome of unspeakable power.

Gul'dan just finds a demon overlord though :-D

ArchivedUser

Jahlon said:

Yes, a game where you have only see 4 of the 8 main archetype trees, and 0 of the 64 Class Combinations and how they work together is totally lacking in....

Wait....  No idea what its lacking it.

Let's wait a few more months till they've released enough stuff on the class system before we jump to any conclusions.

That my friend, assumes they will adhere to these preliminary class names. Something they've already said that they to some degree *WON'T.*

And that is where the problem lies. Because they say that mostly, only the base classes themselves matter(or rather have hinted). And the base classes have no classes that indicates an allegiance towards dark magic. And this is where the issue of a lack of diversity stems from.

Not to mention that they said the influence of the 2nd class pick, will be mild. This causes further worry.
But as long as they stick to the meaning of the darker class names, future development will be fine. They will have a broad enough base to work from, that it doesn't matter if class diverse is perfect from the start. They will already have the spectrum to build from.

ArchivedUser

Good and bad may not be the right choice of words, but I would expect diametrically opposed abilities. Seems appropriate to reflect that with diametrically opposed skill sets...aka classes. The whole point of classes is to segregate skills sets anyway. Thus classes were always associated with specific attribute focus that would only empower those chosen skill sets.

Technically six attributes would allow 2^6 or 8x8 attribute combinations. So the fact 6 attributes were shown seems relevant ?

ArchivedUser

Who's to say that just because there isn't a Necromancer or Death Knight base class there isn't the ability to play that type of character?  For all we know there could be different skill lines we could spec into for each of the base classes.  For cleric there could be a skill line that uses life steals to heal.  For mage there could be the usual elemental skill line but there could also be a necromancy skill line. 

There could even just be a check box where you select if your playing an evil\dark character and the skill lines you are offered are determined by that.  For a Cleric you get divine healing but if you chose the dark option you get life steals.  For all we know there are already dark vs. light options for our characters already in the works.  At this point we just don't know.  But I'm really looking forward to finding out.

ArchivedUser

Its all good having deathknights, death this and death that in a name , but once i walk into a quaint city tavern or market square and see a so called death knight queuing up like everyone else to buy the latest herb or sell his latest wares....it all becomes a bit nonsense in my mind.........If the game has a corrupted faction totally separated from the civilized folk now that would be something .

 But there is room for the shifty warlock and or undercover necromancer doing dirty deeds in a town in the middle of the night....mewhahaha