Honestly, I think being ganged up on by groups of other players is one of those unavoidable things when PvP is a possibility.
In World of Warcraft some of my favourite ever encounters have started like this and turned into full-blown wars.
I'd be gathering resources like a good little Troll and get attacked by 3 or 4 Alliance players, I'd rally some guild buddies and see if there are nearby players on the Local Defence channel to come help me, we'd fight them back and then they'd end up doing the same.
It's never ideal to begin with but pretty much anything that would restrict this sort of behaviour would also end up heavily restricting other legitimate PvP encounters unfairly in my eyes.
I don't doubt that both purples and greens will try to take advantage of the current mechanics, greens will be able to steal resource nodes, etc. whilst being fully aware that purples won't be able to attack them without receiving corruption penalties and purples will attack greens knowing that they'll lose XP and stats if they don't fight back. and flag themselves.
@Flatline how is a person who wants nothing to do with PvP and only wants to do professions and gather material a passive aggressive troll? Don't they have a right to play the game that they are paying for in any way they chose? Just like those who want to gank and engage non flagged player have the right to play as they wish even though others may not agree with that type of play style?
He is a passive agressive troll by wanting a system that will opress the other game style... All he has to do is simply return to the area conti ue farming while the person thats trying to contest for resources incures a stiffer penalty for killing him, once he turns corrupt he attacks him takes his stuff........ TROLL
So what you are saying is, a person who is fully skilled at crafting and therefore not built for combat, should be forced to fight and lose 'everytime' anyway, because not built for combat.
You arent asking for a fair PvP fight. You are asking for easy kills just like the typical ganker.
So you are assuming that said person is thr best pvper on the server and said troll being killed is completely help less........ Right get off your entitled mentality and welcome adversity.... Improvise, adapt, overcome..... Stop running to mommy and daddy .. Its this kind of mentality that ruins MMOs and maked them bussiness as usual. We as a community have tired it "this way" for several years only to account one failure after another.. Keep in mind this is PVX stop trying to make it as every other worthless and failed title tjat has came out for the past 10+ years....
Improve adapt overcome....when the dice are loaded ? haha! Comedian. Nice try though. I see through the griefer shenanigans espoused by many on here. Your words have no meaning and even less relevance.
The game will be built to stop griefers. Dont like being punished for your griefing...dont play. Lots of other games where you can get your rocks off
@Flatline how is a person who wants nothing to do with PvP and only wants to do professions and gather material a passive aggressive troll? Don't they have a right to play the game that they are paying for in any way they chose? Just like those who want to gank and engage non flagged player have the right to play as they wish even though others may not agree with that type of play style?
He is a passive agressive troll by wanting a system that will opress the other game style... All he has to do is simply return to the area conti ue farming while the person thats trying to contest for resources incures a stiffer penalty for killing him, once he turns corrupt he attacks him takes his stuff........ TROLL
So what you are saying is, a person who is fully skilled at crafting and therefore not built for combat, should be forced to fight and lose 'everytime' anyway, because not built for combat.
You arent asking for a fair PvP fight. You are asking for easy kills just like the typical ganker.
Somebody that understands what I am trying to say thank you @Rune_Relic . I not saying a person can not try and defend a node or resources. This is about one or more players searching out persons to kill just for the sake of killing.
@Flatline how is a person who wants nothing to do with PvP and only wants to do professions and gather material a passive aggressive troll? Don't they have a right to play the game that they are paying for in any way they chose? Just like those who want to gank and engage non flagged player have the right to play as they wish even though others may not agree with that type of play style?
He is a passive agressive troll by wanting a system that will opress the other game style... All he has to do is simply return to the area conti ue farming while the person thats trying to contest for resources incures a stiffer penalty for killing him, once he turns corrupt he attacks him takes his stuff........ TROLL
So what you are saying is, a person who is fully skilled at crafting and therefore not built for combat, should be forced to fight and lose 'everytime' anyway, because not built for combat.
You arent asking for a fair PvP fight. You are asking for easy kills just like the typical ganker.
Somebody that understands what I am trying to say thank you @Rune_Relic . I not saying a person can not try and defend a node or resources. This is about one or more players searching out persons to kill just for the sake of killing.
So what you are saying is, a person who is fully skilled at crafting and therefore not built for combat, should be forced to fight and lose 'everytime' anyway, because not built for combat.
You arent asking for a fair PvP fight. You are asking for easy kills just like the typical ganker.
If someone is "fully skilled" at crafting then they should stay in town, craft, and trade. Buy your resources from those who enjoy combat and sell them what you craft. If they can't do combat then why are they out doing combat? Remember that the artisan class system encourages you to specialize. If someone is really going for pro crafter then they will have to buy their resources as they won't have the gathering skill to get it themselves.
Somebody that understands what I am trying to say thank you @Rune_Relic This is not about defending a resource. This is about a group of people who look specifically for a certain person or guild and kills them over and over as a form of entertainment. Or to cause them to lose materials and XP because they think it is fun.
You don't lose exp, you gain negative exp, and if this ever became an issue, they could put a cap on it. The resources you lose are only the ones you are carrying.
If a person is being picked on by a group then they have to find other players to back them up or join a guild. There will be white knights hanging around that are willing to help
This also goes 2 ways. If there is a group of players running around picking on people, it won't be long until they will piss everyone off and the node/region is against them. The hunters will become the hunted. Not only will people hunt them, other players will not want to group with them.
We'll practice a bit to make sure that we're good at PvP and have backup standing by, but trust me, we'll be so much better at PvP than almost everyone else, including bounty hunters....because we do this together as a group, we do it all the time and we are professionals at it.
Bounty hunters can also play as a group.
A team of practiced up guildies form up and go bounty hunting.
If someone is "fully skilled" at crafting then they should stay in town,
craft, and trade. Buy your resources from those who enjoy combat and
sell them what you craft. If they can't do combat then why are they out
doing combat? Remember that the artisan class system encourages you to
specialize. If someone is really going for pro crafter then they will
have to buy their resources as they won't have the gathering skill to
get it themselves. @McStackerson
Pedantic but accurate. So replace professional crafter with professional gatherer. The problem still stands.
And that the thing...they arent out doing combat ...the gankers are
Paragraphing and caps-ing parts of your text make the text easier to read and make it easier to point out the parts you want to emphasize. So yeah caps do make the difference.
Not difference in people agreeing with you, but difference in people seeing easier what parts of text you wish to point out.
if you want to play a mmorpg, then pvp (and inconvenient attacks and ganking) are part of the deal. World pvp is an integral part of the game. at least AOC has a system in place to address ganking. At least world pvp seems like it will matter (one of the reasons I'm trying to leave wow is because of how they've completely ruined pvp). If you don't want to be "bothered" by people attacking you, stick with a totally pve game. Just my opinion
@rune_relic you obviously got hurt a lot in some MMO but you need to realize world is not made only from horde of gankers.
You can not ruin PvP for everyone just to punish gankers (and again, ganking = killing lower levels).
one person not wanting to fight = his own problem
You are playing (as IS stated) CONFLICT BASED MMO, so either accept conflict, or go play something else.
And NO conflict isn't only MUTUALLY AGREED UPON conflict.
Not once have I ever argued to remove PvP. I am a PvP player just as much as a PvE player. So dont assume my motive is being a carebear. I spent most of my time on the plains of Cyrodiil in ESO having a scream in spite of the game crippling lag when 50 people showed up and the Meta switching OP builds they thought they would rotate rather than fix. Through broken beta right through to the great rng box and free2play deception. So really...dont even go there.
This is not a PvP server anymore than it should be a PvE server. Is there conflict yes. And ? You cant flag on party, guild, alliance members...oh look no PvP there. You cant attack people in their houses....oh look no PvP there. Anywhere other than caravans, castles and sieges is conditional PvP and not unconditional PvP.
Look I get you want a no holds barred PvP server. But it aint gonna happen. In a fully inclusive game you need to have an RP server, PvE server and PvP server all mixed in so that people can try areas outside their comfort zone....and encourage them to do so....not force them into it. Separate PvP, PvE and RP servers will never ever allow nor encourage people to step out of their comfort zone and try something different because the server doesnt allow it. You force people into doing something they dont want to do, all you will do is drive them away.
Thinks about it. Do you really think the PvP population is increasing or decreasing compared to PvE ? The only way the PvP population is going to get new blood is by converting PvE players to PvP. So really, stop being part of the problem killing PvP and start being part of the solution. You aint doing me any favours as a PvP player.
If someone is "fully skilled" at crafting then they should stay in town,
craft, and trade. Buy your resources from those who enjoy combat and
sell them what you craft. If they can't do combat then why are they out
doing combat? Remember that the artisan class system encourages you to
specialize. If someone is really going for pro crafter then they will
have to buy their resources as they won't have the gathering skill to
get it themselves. @McStackerson
Pedantic but accurate. So replace professional crafter with professional gatherer. The problem still stands.
And that the thing...they arent out doing combat ...the gankers are
If you are going to be a professional gather then you should be able to fight. The world is a dangerous place and you will have to fight to survive. With the death penalty, corruption system, and how most things are in the open world, i wouldn't be surprised if things are balanced in a way where you will want to fight back if you have resources. If they want resources to be at risk when they are being transported then i don't think it's a stretch to think they will also want them at risk when they are being collected.
I think people are starting to get way off topic of the original question of this post. What other then corruption prevents a GROUP of players or a GUILD from stalking and singling out a Specific player and or GUILD. Nobody is trying to stop pvp. And yes resources will be contested even if all you want to do is craft. The reason for this post was to talk about straight up being an Troll/Ganker for your own amusement and to only ruin another player or groups game experience.
I think people are starting to get way off topic of the original question of this post. What other then corruption prevents a GROUP of players or a GUILD from stalking and singling out a Specific player and or GUILD. Nobody is trying to stop pvp. And yes resources will be contested even if all you want to do is craft. The reason for this post was to talk about straight up being an Troll/Ganker for your own amusement and to only ruin another player or groups game experience.
Yes, sorry about going off topic.
From what we know, there is nothing preventing people from forming vendettas or targeting people and that behavior will most likely be part of the game. This may sound weird if you have only played pvp games with the red = dead mentality but feuds between players will add context to pvp and fuel conflict. As time goes on, you will probably be attacking people because of either the guild they are from or the node they are a part of.
Yes, there will be trolls but as i said before, the knife cuts both ways. Trolls will appear, piss people off, and be hunted until people forgive them or they leave.
The best prevention from being killed by group of people is to not go around the world solo.
This is MMO, play with friends and then your chances of survival are better. Heck, you may even notice you gonna be able to rekt others for some of their own resources.
Well for example on my old sever of world of warcraft I am horde and there was an alliance guild that hated my guild due to us being ahead on progression in raiding. Whenever two or more of that alliance guild saw a single one of our players alone they would kill them. Now joining a guild may help but you are not gonna have a guild member on your hip at all times. I just see the potential for bully oriented guilds to seek out other guilds and kill their player regardless of if bounties are placed on their head.Most trolls might see a bounty on their head as a badge of honor.
PVP. Yeah there are going to be asshats out there. What game does not have them? However, having good world PVP often times means having to contend with gankers and griefers. It will be up to the Devs to change things over time so the penalty for being someone who is in perpetual corruption mode to be penalized more than the people he is ganking in the first place.
Perhaps being corrupted keeps you from using chat, mail services, etc.... Make it an actual punishment so you will wanna look twice at the targets level before you start wiping the floor with them.
PvX should mean PvE AND PvP. PvX should not mean PvE AND "restricted PvP".
Can you name one MMORPG that has ever done this?
And that's the reason for AoC to continue the same mistake as those other MMOs you are talking about?
As I recall IS said they wish AoC to be different.
So that is a no, you can't name such a game.
The reason you can't name such a game is because it is not financially feasible.
This game will not take the provision of enjoyment for players out of the hands of the developer and in to the hands of a few players - which is exactly what your idea of a PvP game would do. It would be a complete mess, where only people in well organized guilds that spend 8+ hours a day playing will find any enjoyment, and everyone else will simply find another game to play.
Intrepid's job in relation to this is to provide a system under which a player is able to attack another player at will, but where unless there is something tangible to gain, the player will likely chose not to do so.
Your ideas would work fine in a non-persistent world, but would fail miserably in a fully persistent MMORPG.
This game will be different, but not in the way you are wanting. If that is your expectation for this game, you will be disappointed.
Tbh if you want me to name, take ArcheAge or BDO as most recent examples.
Even ArcheAge had periods of war to counter periods of peace.
Even BDO had guild war system (that you could proclaim one sided, without mutual agreement) to counter for it's karma system.
Ashes of Creation has nothing. It has corruption system, but it doesn't have guild wars that can be activated one sided to counter for it.
So AoC is tailored towards PvE player and NOT towards PvP player or even towards PvX player as they like to claim.
This last statement of yours isn't true.
AoC is more tailored to PvE than to PvP, absolutely. However, PvE players still need to participate in caravans, opening themselves up to PvP. This in itself makes the game PvX as PvP becomes a necessary part of the game - and that is totally ignoring all other aspects of PvP in the game. It may not be the PvX you want, but it is still PvX.
Archeage is an interesting example of a PvP game. 18 months after launch there was more forum PvP than in game PvP, as all the PvP guilds had their own server. The only meaningful PvP that occurred after that point was when servers merged - not a great argument to make for the viability of PvP.
Interestingly as well, the Archeage PvP system seems to be what is being used as a base in AoC for PvP - they are simply refining it in an attempt to deal with the obvious flaws it had.
As for BDO, I played it for about 6 months, decided that while it was good I didn't really like it. In that time I never even saw a PvP fight, let alone participated in one.
Harsh death penalties actually go a long way towards discouraging bad behavior. Yes, some people and groups will use these systems to abuse other players and smaller groups. No question about that, but the other half of that story is the part where the community is able to actually punish that group by the same system. Groups that piss off the wider community will find themselves in a very hostile world where they're faced with that same harsh death penalty on a much more frequent basis than they could ever inflict on others.
In games with lighter penalties (basically every recent game) griefers can and do harass players all the time, and there's no good recourse for the victim. Yes, others could come help kill the griefer, but now one griefer is wasting 2+ peoples' time for the same amount of effort. You're just helping the griefer troll by showing up to kill them.
I'd much rather occasionally die to a griefer, take a loss, and then have a good time stomping them out of existence (or at least back to recover their losses) than be faced with the choice between either running away and letting the griefer win, or waste my time fighting repeated pointless battles they have no incentive to give up on.
Comments
The game will be built to stop griefers. Dont like being punished for your griefing...dont play. Lots of other games where you can get your rocks off
You don't lose exp, you gain negative exp, and if this ever became an issue, they could put a cap on it. The resources you lose are only the ones you are carrying.
If a person is being picked on by a group then they have to find other players to back them up or join a guild. There will be white knights hanging around that are willing to help
This also goes 2 ways. If there is a group of players running around picking on people, it won't be long until they will piss everyone off and the node/region is against them. The hunters will become the hunted. Not only will people hunt them, other players will not want to group with them.
Bounty hunters can also play as a group.
A team of practiced up guildies form up and go bounty hunting.
@McStackerson
Pedantic but accurate. So replace professional crafter with professional gatherer. The problem still stands.
And that the thing...they arent out doing combat ...the gankers are
You can not ruin PvP for everyone just to punish gankers (and again, ganking = killing lower levels).
one person not wanting to fight = his own problem
You are playing (as IS stated) CONFLICT BASED MMO, so either accept conflict, or go play something else.
And NO conflict isn't only MUTUALLY AGREED UPON conflict.
Not difference in people agreeing with you, but difference in people seeing easier what parts of text you wish to point out.
I am a PvP player just as much as a PvE player.
So dont assume my motive is being a carebear.
I spent most of my time on the plains of Cyrodiil in ESO having a scream in spite of the game crippling lag when 50 people showed up and the Meta switching OP builds they thought they would rotate rather than fix.
Through broken beta right through to the great rng box and free2play deception.
So really...dont even go there.
This is not a PvP server anymore than it should be a PvE server.
Is there conflict yes. And ?
You cant flag on party, guild, alliance members...oh look no PvP there.
You cant attack people in their houses....oh look no PvP there.
Anywhere other than caravans, castles and sieges is conditional PvP and not unconditional PvP.
Look I get you want a no holds barred PvP server. But it aint gonna happen.
In a fully inclusive game you need to have an RP server, PvE server and PvP server all mixed in so that people can try areas outside their comfort zone....and encourage them to do so....not force them into it.
Separate PvP, PvE and RP servers will never ever allow nor encourage people to step out of their comfort zone and try something different because the server doesnt allow it.
You force people into doing something they dont want to do, all you will do is drive them away.
Thinks about it. Do you really think the PvP population is increasing or decreasing compared to PvE ? The only way the PvP population is going to get new blood is by converting PvE players to PvP. So really, stop being part of the problem killing PvP and start being part of the solution. You aint doing me any favours as a PvP player.
From what we know, there is nothing preventing people from forming vendettas or targeting people and that behavior will most likely be part of the game. This may sound weird if you have only played pvp games with the red = dead mentality but feuds between players will add context to pvp and fuel conflict. As time goes on, you will probably be attacking people because of either the guild they are from or the node they are a part of.
Yes, there will be trolls but as i said before, the knife cuts both ways. Trolls will appear, piss people off, and be hunted until people forgive them or they leave.
This is MMO, play with friends and then your chances of survival are better. Heck, you may even notice you gonna be able to rekt others for some of their own resources.
Perhaps being corrupted keeps you from using chat, mail services, etc.... Make it an actual punishment so you will wanna look twice at the targets level before you start wiping the floor with them.
Make it an actual incentive for people not to remain green, so they will think twice before playing PvX game in PvE mode.
And that's the reason for AoC to continue the same mistake as those other MMOs you are talking about?
As I recall IS said they wish AoC to be different.
The reason you can't name such a game is because it is not financially feasible.
This game will not take the provision of enjoyment for players out of the hands of the developer and in to the hands of a few players - which is exactly what your idea of a PvP game would do. It would be a complete mess, where only people in well organized guilds that spend 8+ hours a day playing will find any enjoyment, and everyone else will simply find another game to play.
Intrepid's job in relation to this is to provide a system under which a player is able to attack another player at will, but where unless there is something tangible to gain, the player will likely chose not to do so.
Your ideas would work fine in a non-persistent world, but would fail miserably in a fully persistent MMORPG.
This game will be different, but not in the way you are wanting. If that is your expectation for this game, you will be disappointed.
Even ArcheAge had periods of war to counter periods of peace.
Even BDO had guild war system (that you could proclaim one sided, without mutual agreement) to counter for it's karma system.
Ashes of Creation has nothing. It has corruption system, but it doesn't have guild wars that can be activated one sided to counter for it.
So AoC is tailored towards PvE player and NOT towards PvP player or even towards PvX player as they like to claim.
AoC is more tailored to PvE than to PvP, absolutely. However, PvE players still need to participate in caravans, opening themselves up to PvP. This in itself makes the game PvX as PvP becomes a necessary part of the game - and that is totally ignoring all other aspects of PvP in the game. It may not be the PvX you want, but it is still PvX.
Archeage is an interesting example of a PvP game. 18 months after launch there was more forum PvP than in game PvP, as all the PvP guilds had their own server. The only meaningful PvP that occurred after that point was when servers merged - not a great argument to make for the viability of PvP.
Interestingly as well, the Archeage PvP system seems to be what is being used as a base in AoC for PvP - they are simply refining it in an attempt to deal with the obvious flaws it had.
As for BDO, I played it for about 6 months, decided that while it was good I didn't really like it. In that time I never even saw a PvP fight, let alone participated in one.
In games with lighter penalties (basically every recent game) griefers can and do harass players all the time, and there's no good recourse for the victim. Yes, others could come help kill the griefer, but now one griefer is wasting 2+ peoples' time for the same amount of effort. You're just helping the griefer troll by showing up to kill them.
I'd much rather occasionally die to a griefer, take a loss, and then have a good time stomping them out of existence (or at least back to recover their losses) than be faced with the choice between either running away and letting the griefer win, or waste my time fighting repeated pointless battles they have no incentive to give up on.