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Status of the stretch goals?

Can I find any information somewhere on the stretch goals beyond the $3M marker they set during kickstarter campaign? After all this is a crowd funded game and they are introducing new incentives to raise more money, I would be interested to see what the current balance (transparancy) and further stretch goals for the raised funds are to develop the game further on, even if that is beyond initial setup and launch.

Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • I do not think they have any more stretch goals beside what was given during Kickstarter. If they do they have not really mentioned them in any official capacity. 
  • Thanks for the answer. I would have kinda hoped that kickstarter campaigns don't stop sharing information and new goals when their time is up or the goals have been reached.

    Especially when a company has secured the funds to release what people pledged for during kickstarter campaign, but is still raising money afterwards and the focus for that is in a sense (from what I gather) mainly focussed on increasing exsisting members their pledges.

    So either that means that the money they thought they could produce the product with was not sufficient or that they have set new goals to be released on release or (which is more likely) at a later date. 

    In short, tell me what you are going to spent my money on, in addition to what I already pledged for, if I would happen to increase my current pledge. What apart from the items, which in a sense have already been paid for, do we get in addition?
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    They had a summer crowd funding campaign but it wasn't as huge as the actual Kickstarter.

     As far as I know they are both done, having only a month to reach each one. Steven did give ever the Wand as a thank you for bearing with them so all backers getting that.

    Edit* I thought I had a pic of the Summer Stretch goals but can't seem to find it...

    @Digma76

    You are looking at this totally wrong. Your sitting here asking "what can you do for me Intrepid?" When the while point of "backing" the game is helping find it to it gets made. 

    The rewards for doing so are a perk and definitely helped drive for more pledges but the point is, I'd rather Intrepid spend time and money working on the game than focusing on what shinies they can give me.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    @Karthos
    I leave that assumption and conclusion you made about me completely up to you. Can't even blame you for thinking this way as that is what usually drives people.

    What I am looking for is rather what type of extentions to the gameplay could we be looking for, for everything that is being put into this game. I don't think I have to go through full lengths of detail to explain why scepsis is present due to the overall condition of kickstarters and besides I believe that not following the flock of believe without questioning and asking for some clearity is actually a healthy attitude.
  • I don't think (crossing my fingers) they are working on extensions, I think they are focusing on their core product. Then they will institute some of the more expensive KS stretch goals. They have said more than once they will release on time, but some KS goals might be implemented later.

    Once the game goes live they will still need funds. Having a cushion of funds to help them through the first year, due to pre-game backers, would be a good thing.

    After the core game is released followed by KS goals, they will tell us about extensions. If we are lucky, they might release that sooner.

    You are a donor, not really an investor in that the only thing promised was a complete game and the benefits of your package. They are not under contract, like a financial firm would be, to keep you in the loop of their expense reports.

    That said, releasing them in good faith might not be a bad thing, but it could also summon up trolls that think the money should have gone elsewhere first or to a cheaper product or something they could have done for a fraction of the price, etc.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Azathoth said:
    I don't think (crossing my fingers) they are working on extensions, I think they are focusing on their core product. Then they will institute some of the more expensive KS stretch goals. They have said more than once they will release on time, but some KS goals might be implemented later.

    Once the game goes live they will still need funds. Having a cushion of funds to help them through the first year, due to pre-game backers, would be a good thing.

    After the core game is released followed by KS goals, they will tell us about extensions. If we are lucky, they might release that sooner.

    You are a donor, not really an investor in that the only thing promised was a complete game and the benefits of your package. They are not under contract, like a financial firm would be, to keep you in the loop of their expense reports.

    That said, releasing them in good faith might not be a bad thing, but it could also summon up trolls that think the money should have gone elsewhere first or to a cheaper product or something they could have done for a fraction of the price, etc.
    That's why further investment incentives should have contained further stretch goals, so people would exactly know what they were signing up for, And in the end it doesn't matter if that is "polishing the housing system" or "finetuning combat to a higher level", but being transparent about that the moment you want to beef your cash buffers, will limit the room the trolls can work with.
  • Adding more stretch goals isn't really that great of an idea imo. Because if you promise too much then you'll end up stretching yourself too thin and thus make it harder to deliver.

    I'd rather they spend the extra effort in making their base game solid,  then a bunch of features that are riddled with problems because of trying to do to much at once. Quality over quantity
  • If people like the concept of the game and want to donate to the cause then they should. Knowing where that money would go would be great, but I donated on KS and there is no telling where my money went.

    I agree with Ninja Shadow in that more stretch goals are not necessary at this point, I would say that could lead to scope creep.

    Trolls will troll even with all the information available, the forums have made that clear, and indicating specific ear marks for the money can be a dangerous slope. If something happens and that money needs to go elsewhere people will throw tantrums, especially if there are financial reports for donors.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Azathoth said:
    If people like the concept of the game and want to donate to the cause then they should. Knowing where that money would go would be great, but I donated on KS and there is no telling where my money went.
    That exactly being my point, but if I said that straight out I would have had every fanboy on the forum on this topic. It's not about stretch goals, it's about them having secured the fund to make things happen that they promised. And there are incentives to raise more, but what is that being put into and perhaps even more important are they able to pull it off with the fund they have already received?

    Everyone is more than willing to give them time to get things done, but yes with the funds they secured and said the would deliver certain milestones for. Then in the meantime putting out incentives to raise more and more in a system where you were given clearity about your previous "donation", while asking for patience and no plan where the additional funds are going to be put into, raises an eyebrow.

    Yes sure, they have to make profit, which you normally get after the final product. Sure they need some sort of buffer for the first couple of months, but just say that out straight.

    I just don't want this game go down the road of other crowdfunded games where more and more money is being asked and deadlines are being stretched endlessly. So giving a clear and transparent path will aid its supporters in that and also give a good feeling towards those people and  them becoming even more dedicated to the game.

    Sorry but "blue eyes" don't work for me anymore. I will gladly put some more money into this game, as my initial backing was a moderate careful one, but in order to put more into it (like someone mentioned on the podcast as well), I would just like to see more transparancy and apart from being patient and accepting a development path with hickups along the road, I believe it is our obligation as donators, future users, to keep an eye on that and don't straightout think "oh it will turn out allright".
  • So where is the line drawn?
    At what point does transparency go too far, showing artwork, lore, and other game designs that have been developed with the money but the studio doesn't want to release for the surprise effect or because it might change?

    They have chosen to slowly leak the lore in the form of diary entries, I like that. I don't need an update on what % of all the lore is done or what that lore is. I want to discover some of that in game.

    As for milestones, IS has started pre-alpha testing on target. The next alpha phase will be on target until we start getting to the end of Dec. 2018 without any word on when it will start (seeing as how Q3/Q4 are the estimated release times).

    Maybe the group has chosen to focus on world building and MOB avatar/animations. If they release that many forum members will freak because more funds have went to avatar design than combat design. It doesn't mean combat design won't have the same amount of funds or time invested, just that it wasn't first, and that will make the trolls troll.

    They might have decided releasing a statement indicating where the money went would be more detrimental to PR than it would be beneficial to those willing to buy bundles now, after KS and Summer Backer has finished.

    If you need this level of detail before you invest in this game I would wait until any Alpha/Beta phase you invested in starts so you can test the game yourself. If you are not in an alpha/beta and don't want to donate more to be in one until you see it, wait for the streams to start after the NDA.

    I don't think seeing a financial appropriations statement will be more beneficial than detrimental at this point. What if they spent 1000$ on a Pepsi machine, crap would hit the fan!
  • I'd agree with Azathoth here, I don't believe it's about having "blue eyes" Digma76, as you mentioned. I agree that it's important to keep asking questions, and to have healthy skepticism through all stages of development, but it's important to remember that costs, goals, and schedules shift throughout the development cycle. If they start releasing cost breakdowns, in terms of "this money crowdfunded is going towards this specific team, module, asset, etc." and work/funds/time needed to be shifted later on towards something else, the perception of many would be a sense of entitlement/attachment, e.g. "I only donated because you told me my money was going towards X, and now you're spending it on Y".

    Again, I think transparency is important, but a certain degree of withheld or screened information is important as well, to allow room for flexibility during development.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Then I would suggest the best idea is splitting that into general R&D fund and specific R&D fund.

    The general fund is necessary for equipment, employees, maintenance, multiple prototyping cycles/failures, etc. That cant be quantified as it needs flexibility where system design rarely goes as planned, and emergency costs cant be predicted.

    The specific fund is for straightforward costs associated with, assets and content development that can easily be quantified. If they want to make 1000 passes instead of funding for 5 and take 200x the duration to achieve the same objective because they cant make up their mind ? Is the onus on the funders or the creators to pick up that cost ?

    But of course, falling back on the, suck it up or GTFO line is actually what pisses many players off. You dont need to know where the money is going, just give me everything you have in your wallet/purse....that should cover it ;)
  • From my point of view, I am not sure why we need to know. It's not like they disappeared to never be heard of again after the KS.

    If you were a stock holder financial documentation would both be needed and legally binding. It's your right as a partial owner of that company. If those documents were false or unjustly kept from you, you would be in your right to "lawyer up."

    Ashes, and IS, are not publicly (or privately to my knowledge) traded resources/companies. Individual citizens, and possibly a company or more, donated to this project to see where it would land. Once the KS and Summer Backer drives were completed, and IS had no reason to refund you, your right to know where that money went left with that money.

    If you were to donate 20$ to your local animal shelter, would you demand to know which dog they were going to feed with it?

    Of course I think they should keep us up to date. They have been. Maybe it's not the nitty-gritty or timely responses some want, but they have kept us informed. Weekly to Monthly videos, release of art/info on discord, etc.

    Requiring more seems dramatic and not necessary. Sometimes your donations pay off, sometimes when you give the guy on the corner a fiver for food and you see him by liquor it doesn't pay off. That's why it was a donation, not a purchase of stock.
  • In my opinion we already get a lot of informations about the game they try to Keep us up to date wich discord and sometimes we get an announce here on the Forum too. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Sorry Azatoth, but I disagree on the last remark you made there. And this isn't about 5 or 10. We all know companies have running costs, we all know that they need fluids that they don't de-hydrate. It's the overall point that matters, not the finer details of "omg they bought 200 pepsi cans for 1/100th of the last raised money!". Absolutely not.

    It's nice to have people dive into it that deep, but basically all I am saying is: you secured x-amount of money to do x-stretch goals and to release a game. You put a considerable amount into yourself. Yet you are still raising, through packs which will change every x-amount of time with new costumes, were the estimates you made to low, is there something going on? That literally puts me of putting more into this game at the moment.

    But if you don't mind about that. Then I guess it is your choice to throw money at stuff and let it work out it self. Games like the ever developing space opera also seem to have sparked that attitude in people.
  • When the estimated release date comes and goes and they have still not released and are asking for more money I will cross the line to your side. :smile:
  • Azathoth said:
    From my point of view, I am not sure why we need to know. It's not like they disappeared to never be heard of again after the KS.

    If you were a stock holder financial documentation would both be needed and legally binding. It's your right as a partial owner of that company. If those documents were false or unjustly kept from you, you would be in your right to "lawyer up."

    Ashes, and IS, are not publicly (or privately to my knowledge) traded resources/companies. Individual citizens, and possibly a company or more, donated to this project to see where it would land. Once the KS and Summer Backer drives were completed, and IS had no reason to refund you, your right to know where that money went left with that money.

    If you were to donate 20$ to your local animal shelter, would you demand to know which dog they were going to feed with it?

    Of course I think they should keep us up to date. They have been. Maybe it's not the nitty-gritty or timely responses some want, but they have kept us informed. Weekly to Monthly videos, release of art/info on discord, etc.

    Requiring more seems dramatic and not necessary. Sometimes your donations pay off, sometimes when you give the guy on the corner a fiver for food and you see him by liquor it doesn't pay off. That's why it was a donation, not a purchase of stock.
    If I donated $20 to an animal shelter I would want to know it was spent on the animal shelter and not a personal trust fund and holiday home for the boss.
  • Sure, but would you expect a financial statement to double check at the end of the year?
    Would you also want them to somehow (secured or not) indicate which 20$ was yours on the expense report?

    Nobody wants to be an involuntary victim of a ponzi-scheme, ghost company, or hedge fund fraud. There is rarely, if ever, a guarantee against someone breaking the law.
  • The thing now days is all trust or 'good faith' is spent. It was spent on all the MMO companies that lied cheated exploited and milked their player base. How many promised no pay2win, no cash shop, no loot boxes, subsciption would pay for the game and lied through their teeth once they had a sufficiently addicted player base of sufficient size.

    The only way to earn trust now is transparency.
  • So others have to pay for the jadedness caused by others...
    I see the point and I completely understand the desire to want to be able to track one's dollars through an investment.

    I just don't see this as an investment because my donation did not make me a co-owner or stock holder.
  • Azathoth said:
    So others have to pay for the jadedness caused by others...
    I see the point and I completely understand the desire to want to be able to track one's dollars through an investment.

    I just don't see this as an investment because my donation did not make me a co-owner or stock holder.
    Fair enough.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    The thing now days is all trust or 'good faith' is spent. It was spent on all the MMO companies that lied cheated exploited and milked their player base. How many promised no pay2win, no cash shop, no loot boxes, subsciption would pay for the game and lied through their teeth once they had a sufficiently addicted player base of sufficient size.

    The only way to earn trust now is transparency.
    A new company and new devs, so you have to at least give them the benefit of the doubt, until they prove otherwise. 

    BUT with that said, I absolutely agree with you about transparency.  Any dev staff that fails to maintain transparency with its players (paying customers), will only foster player contempt and eventually the game's failure.  I've seen too many times how devs go silent or get defensive if something they did wasn't well received. That only exacerbates the situation a lot of times.  They often fail to realize that if they are open, upfront, and honest with the players, then the players would be lot more forgiving, understanding, and willing to wait.

    I feel Ashes has been pretty straightforward with us so far, so I wouldn't sound the alarm bells yet, but I understand why you are gun shy.
  • The KS wasnt for the core game! sry didnt read through all the previous post. 
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