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Ashes Of Creation moving forward.

What are Ashes Of Creations long term goals in endgame? Well so many games have came out over the years in the MMORPG genre almost all if not all have failed to ever live for more than a few years. If Ashes wants to rise above all this wouldn't it need a very stable end game fulled with content of both PVE and PVP?

Comments

  • Once again the dreaded "endgame" rears its ugly head. I know it is going to be a stretch for people to get out of the themepark mentality of run this dungeon till level 10, then move on to this dungeon at level 20, all the way up to run these raids in this order to get the "best" gear. Ashes plans to turn all of that on its head with more of a themebox. Taking the best parts of themepark mmo systems, and going back to sandbox content that hasn't been seen since, say SWG as an example. Areas do not become static and overplayed, players can tear it down or build it up as they become bored with what is available in that certain patch of the world. A steady stream of smaller content updates every 4 to 6 weeks is planned with larger update quarterly. While that is ambitious, so far they have not missed a deadline that they have give a set date for. Your idea of what "endgame" is will need to change and evolve. Those that can't will not be happy and find other patches to play in. Until we see them give up and stop fulfilling promises of vision, we need to leave them to get on with the grunt work of bringing all the various parts together.
  • Once again the dreaded "endgame" rears its ugly head. I know it is going to be a stretch for people to get out of the themepark mentality of run this dungeon till level 10, then move on to this dungeon at level 20, all the way up to run these raids in this order to get the "best" gear. Ashes plans to turn all of that on its head with more of a themebox. Taking the best parts of themepark mmo systems, and going back to sandbox content that hasn't been seen since, say SWG as an example. Areas do not become static and overplayed, players can tear it down or build it up as they become bored with what is available in that certain patch of the world. A steady stream of smaller content updates every 4 to 6 weeks is planned with larger update quarterly. While that is ambitious, so far they have not missed a deadline that they have give a set date for. Your idea of what "endgame" is will need to change and evolve. Those that can't will not be happy and find other patches to play in. Until we see them give up and stop fulfilling promises of vision, we need to leave them to get on with the grunt work of bringing all the various parts together.
    Very well spoken and I mean I will be absolutely be able to change my views on what endgame is because I have only ever really played MMO's that are the typical standardized endgame. It is very good to hear that they have never missed a deadline this makes me have respect still if they are late on anything. The steady stream of smaller content updates are also another very good thing because I am the type of player that has the ambition to go out and collect everything. The whole dungeon running aspect is a thing I dont agree with I feel as if dungeons should be for gear and gear only not for running for EXP.   
  • Sorry if I was confusing. Dungeons may very well be for running for gear. What I meant is that in other themepark mmos they channel you into certain "queues" at specific points of your leveling experience. At level 15 (purely an example) you run Rock Candy Mountain 10 times to get the Sword of Sugar that you will use until you hit level 20 and then have to run Troll Bridge Underfallow till level 25. Since different nodes will unlock different content at different levels of development, there will be no laid out progression path for you to follow. Your node may not even have a dungeon that you are able to run at that point of your progression. You may need to travel far and wide looking for things to do, since there is no fast travel, no port to dungeon, no auto groupfinder to port you into content with random strangers. You will need to work for it and find the best path forward yourself.
  • Sorry if I was confusing. Dungeons may very well be for running for gear. What I meant is that in other themepark mmos they channel you into certain "queues" at specific points of your leveling experience. At level 15 (purely an example) you run Rock Candy Mountain 10 times to get the Sword of Sugar that you will use until you hit level 20 and then have to run Troll Bridge Underfallow till level 25. Since different nodes will unlock different content at different levels of development, there will be no laid out progression path for you to follow. Your node may not even have a dungeon that you are able to run at that point of your progression. You may need to travel far and wide looking for things to do, since there is no fast travel, no port to dungeon, no auto groupfinder to port you into content with random strangers. You will need to work for it and find the best path forward yourself.
    You weren't confusing at all and I you are 100% right in the whole aspect of theme park mmo and there dungeon systems/leveling systems etc. The whole aspect of travelling and no fast travel etc in Ashes Of Creation is very exciting to hear because one thing (example) that killed and made me lose a lot of love for world of Warcraft was the pure amount of lazy mechanics aka teleportation to dungeons etc. Ashes of Creation is shaping up to be everything I want in an MMO.
  • -INSERT WALL OF TEXT- 


  • There is no getting away from the "endgame" mentality.

    As long as the game has levels, a leveling will only every be a temporary stage. Regardless if you level a week, a month, or 3 months... When leveling is over, you spend rest of the years playing at max level.

    So as much as developers (or players) dislike the term "endgame", as long as there are levels, leveling is temporary phase that eventually ends, and game de facto becomes "endgame".
  • World Bosses, raids, dungeons (both instanced and public), WPvP. I think we'll be busy for a while if combat is both fun and engaging while endgame content is rewarding and fun. 
  • Gothix said:
    There is no getting away from the "endgame" mentality.

    As long as the game has levels, a leveling will only every be a temporary stage. Regardless if you level a week, a month, or 3 months... When leveling is over, you spend rest of the years playing at max level.

    So as much as developers (or players) dislike the term "endgame", as long as there are levels, leveling is temporary phase that eventually ends, and game de facto becomes "endgame".
    Level's, and leveling itself, have been heavily tied to "endgame" in most recent mmo's, true.  But, levels are merely a numerical indicator of growth, as opposed to some kind of linchpin regarding endgame mentality.

    Endgame, imo, is more about games steering players to experience games in a linear fashion, by gating content behind levels/gear, and prerequisites.  Example:  In order to enter Mold Hollow Ruins, to defeat Uber Troll, you have to be level 20 and have the key to the ruins, which could only have been acquired by defeating Uber Troll's weaker brother,  Slappy Troll, in an earlier lvl 10 dungeon.  So on, and so forth.  Same thing goes for most PvE quests.

    In Ashes, their attempting to break away from that by not gating content behind having to complete previous content, as stated above.  Granted, certain high level content/events will be "locked" behind node progression, but once the content in available, anybody can participate.  Whether one is strong enough to survive the ordeal, is another story, however. 

    So, instead of players running in a straight line from A (the beginning), to Z (the "endgame"), there will be freedom to run all around in any direction you choose, to your hearts content, regardless of level/gear.  No "endgame".  Just "game".  Or, at least that's my understanding of it.  
  • Map/Node control, finding legendary items and protecting all your assets is endgame. No plot twist, no M. Night Shamallamadingdong.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Gothix said:
    There is no getting away from the "endgame" mentality.

    As long as the game has levels, a leveling will only every be a temporary stage. Regardless if you level a week, a month, or 3 months... When leveling is over, you spend rest of the years playing at max level.

    So as much as developers (or players) dislike the term "endgame", as long as there are levels, leveling is temporary phase that eventually ends, and game de facto becomes "endgame".
    This is correct at the end of the day. Does endgame occur on day 1 or at some later date.

    If you must evolve power wise....then endgame is not achieved until you have reached max power through levelling (power multiplier). If you do not evolve power wise then levelling is not necessary as no power multiplier is required. The type of grind required to reach peak power is semantics. The end of that process is endgame. Where everyone around you is ironically and theoretically on a level playing field as everyone has reached the same level cap....until the devs increase that level cap anyway.

    Ashes has stated there is a level cap..50 at the moment. vis-a-vis....there is a distant endgame and a treadmill to get there. Will gear get more and more powerful beyond that, without gated content with an access key. No. And gear can become more tuned rather than more powerful which fits the theme of risk vs reward. You dont get something for nothing. You can be best DD OR Tank OR Healer rather than best DD AND tank AND Healer. Which is the way many game are headed.

    I think it would be better to differentiate between vertical and horizontal endgame. Vertical 'day-X' endgame require levelling to reach a cap which should be a level playing filed. Horizontal 'day-1' endgame enables more and more variety and requires no cap, where progression is endless rather than level capped stages.
  • I thought 'endgame' was content locked behind max level, or the final level where completion results in nothing left to do. In this case, things you can only do because you are maxed level.
    In MMO's I always thought it was more along the lines of only being able to start PvP when you make it to the part of the world that is max-level locked, only being able to make a freehold or build a ship at max level, etc.

    Map/Node control starts at any level a player chooses to get involved. Just because higher level players are doing it doesn't mean lower level players can't get in on it.

    There might be a few dungeons for max level players in Ashes. If there are not, that is a game flaw as there should be difficult tiered content for all levels. Unless necessary gear/items are locked behind that content I am really not seeing 'endgame' as an actual thing. Even in this case dungeon crawling isn't locked content, just a particular dungeon.

    The world should still be evolving in which case you will still have the option to benefit nodes, start a siege, etc., you know, the stuff any player will be able to do at any level.

    Sorry, TL/DR;
    It seems like most 'endgame' talk in Ashes is "when I am maxed level" not "now that I am max-leveled I can start doing 10% of the game I couldn't before."
  • You can't only say oh I can go there at lvl 1 and do that. You must also look at how successfully you can do that.

    For example, you can try to form a level 10 guild and go siege a castle, but you will just get slaughtered.

    You can also form a level 10 raid, and go attack a monster that's attacking the node. Unless no one else is helping out, you will get slaughtered.


    You CAN do many things, but can you be effective at them, or even succeed, that is another story.

    Can you escort a caravan as lvl 10 group? Yeah. Will you survive if anyone attacks you? Likely not. ;)

    Thus this all is "endgame" content.
  • I think different people will have different opinions on what "endgame" means to them, and that's cool.  Always good to hear different perspectives, imo.

    Also, I understand that my earlier example of endgame gameplay mechanics was extremely simplified, so it didn't capture all the nuances.  Was trying to keep my wall of text from growing.  Personally speaking, another aspect of a traditional endgame system, was any previous content that was cleared became essentially meaningless.  The only reason a player would continue to do old content was for grinding achievements/tokens/mats/items.  

    That's why the node system is so important, because it's essential in keeping this game from becoming a typical "endgame" type of mmo.  ALL content...big, small, old, new, near, or far, will be essential in advancing/maintaining nodes, and all content connected to them. 

    I think the type of endgame that Ashes is trying to eliminate is the "meaninglessness" of content, after reaching a certain height of player progression.  Horizontal, vertical, or otherwise.
  • nice read through If there is a hiccup we will deal with it if not then win win otherwise I would support aoc development just hope cash shop cosmetics are way better than ones in game 
  • Malgus said:
    nice read through If there is a hiccup we will deal with it if not then win win otherwise I would support aoc development just hope cash shop cosmetics are way better than ones in game 
    You hope the cash shop has better cosmetic than the cosmetics in-game? Pardon me?
  • Xombie said:
    Malgus said:
    nice read through If there is a hiccup we will deal with it if not then win win otherwise I would support aoc development just hope cash shop cosmetics are way better than ones in game 
    You hope the cash shop has better cosmetic than the cosmetics in-game? Pardon me?
    if cash shop doesnt have EXCLUSIVE cosmetics to buy then they wont get any money from me. I will work for anything in-game, so if something in the cash shop can be obtained in-game I won't buy and I am pretty sure IS knows this. I at least hope they do :neutral:
  • @Gothix
    Are you really assuming only people of high levels will raid caravans, own castles, etc.?

    Maybe, I guess all that content will be under-utilized until someone reaches max level.
  • Xombie said:
    Malgus said:
    nice read through If there is a hiccup we will deal with it if not then win win otherwise I would support aoc development just hope cash shop cosmetics are way better than ones in game 
    You hope the cash shop has better cosmetic than the cosmetics in-game? Pardon me?
    if cash shop doesnt have EXCLUSIVE cosmetics to buy then they wont get any money from me. I will work for anything in-game, so if something in the cash shop can be obtained in-game I won't buy and I am pretty sure IS knows this. I at least hope they do :neutral:
    It would be foolish and terrible business practice not to put exclusives in the cash shop.
  • All very valid points and yes the cash shop must have EXCLUSIVE things
  • @Azathoth lower levels may try, but every time they will go against higher levels they will fail.
  • Once again the dreaded "endgame" rears its ugly head. I know it is going to be a stretch for people to get out of the themepark mentality of run this dungeon till level 10, then move on to this dungeon at level 20, all the way up to run these raids in this order to get the "best" gear. Ashes plans to turn all of that on its head with more of a themebox. Taking the best parts of themepark mmo systems, and going back to sandbox content that hasn't been seen since, say SWG as an example. Areas do not become static and overplayed, players can tear it down or build it up as they become bored with what is available in that certain patch of the world. A steady stream of smaller content updates every 4 to 6 weeks is planned with larger update quarterly. While that is ambitious, so far they have not missed a deadline that they have give a set date for. Your idea of what "endgame" is will need to change and evolve. Those that can't will not be happy and find other patches to play in. Until we see them give up and stop fulfilling promises of vision, we need to leave them to get on with the grunt work of bringing all the various parts together.
    Dude thank you so much for this. I love themepark MMOs (WoW is one of my all time favorite games) but things like "end-game", "raid tiers" and the like aren't the only way to design an MMO. If anything, it's this sort of pigeon-holing that's keeping the genre stagnant. 

    I want AoC to be a much more free-form, immersive, emergent gameplay-driven experience. That doesn't mean I don't want story, progression, and all that good stuff, but I don't want to suffer through another artificial world that only exists to push me along a linear path. I want to live a life in a virtual world. 
  • It sounds to me like thats what there going for with the endgame. What im saying is their steering away from the traditional theme park wow raiding end game etc and allowing much more diverse and open endgame
  • "Endgame" is going to vary from server to server. Diversity will be very abundant with node progression variations on each server.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    That may well be so. But at the end of the day an MMO lives and dies on the ability to play with our peers.
    If you cant play with your peers as you are no match for the content (as you are underleveled)....then playing with your peers takes on more of an importance than the content you have to play through to get there.

    You are basically forcing the player to choose between loving the content and abandoning their peers or loving their peers and abandoning the content by simply grinding it as fast as possible to be able to play with them and the content they are using.

    It it literally becomes a stairway to godhood. Ever more power as you climb the steps. Each step a level cap on the way. Each step an ever greater gap between new players and old that simply has to be ground out to be where everyone else is.

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