Dark Elves need to be in AOC

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Comments

  • Malgus said:
    Dygz said:
    Dark Elves always being the bad guys is an example of institutional racism.
    So, we really need to be moving away from that.
    Which is why the current design of Ashes is on the right track - rather than continuing to support institutional racism.
    So is night and day racism ?
    They are just dualistic aspects.
    My own definition between dark and light elves above held them as opposing philosophical arguments. Right or Wrong was subjective. So the institutionalised racism argument is a bit of a strawman. Although probably not without merit in some circles.
    100% this
    2018, everything is offensive or racist. Gawd.
  • @Rainer, I was implying that I didn't want to see Ashes go the way of pre-determined conflict based on players choice of characters race.

    It is my understanding that corrupted things, in Ashes, are bad. So if you were playing a corrupt elf/any-race, you would be bad. The non-corrupt would be naturally inclined to attack the corrupt. When a player is flagged red for killing a green player, they become corrupt.

    I like the whole "Drizzt" dark elf becomes good story line, but I think it's been played out (or should be at least).

    I know your goal is to not suggest a racial faction conflict (and that you said nothing about Drizzt), I am just saying I think that's the route it would go. My post was aimed at the "...needs corrupted race variants..." comment.
  • The only way I can think of Dark Elves being present in the game is either a part of the Tulnar since they are a mix of many races so something that looks like Dark Elves is possible to a certain extent or some sort of corruption on the surface if anything survived the cataclysm in the past but that would likely make them enemies :3
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Dygz said:
    Dark Elves always being the bad guys is an example of institutional racism.
    So, we really need to be moving away from that.
    Which is why the current design of Ashes is on the right track - rather than continuing to support institutional racism.
    So is night and day racism ?
    They are just dualistic aspects.
    My own definition between dark and light elves above held them as opposing philosophical arguments. Right or Wrong was subjective. So the institutionalised racism argument is a bit of a strawman. Although probably not without merit in some circles.
    What does night and day have to do with a race of people being intrinsically good or evil?
    For Elves in Ashes, the dualistic, "opposing" philosophical views will be the cultural differences between the Py'Rai and Empyrean: 
    Nature. Balance. Fury. vs Imperial. Pride. Culture.
    Rather than Good vs Evil.
  • Can we change the title to "Malgus wants -insert silly idea-" instead of proclaiming that the project NEEDs something. Gawwwwd
  • Dygz said:
    Dygz said:
    Dark Elves always being the bad guys is an example of institutional racism.
    So, we really need to be moving away from that.
    Which is why the current design of Ashes is on the right track - rather than continuing to support institutional racism.
    So is night and day racism ?
    They are just dualistic aspects.
    My own definition between dark and light elves above held them as opposing philosophical arguments. Right or Wrong was subjective. So the institutionalised racism argument is a bit of a strawman. Although probably not without merit in some circles.
    What does night and day have to do with a race of people being intrinsically good or evil?
    For Elves in Ashes, the dualistic, "opposing" philosophical views will be the cultural differences between the Py'Rai and Empyrean: 
    Nature. Balance. Fury. vs Imperial. Pride. Culture.
    Rather than Good vs Evil.
    What the hell does light and dark elves have to do with institutionalised racism ?

  • Xombie said:
    Can we change the title to "Malgus wants -insert silly idea-" instead of proclaiming that the project NEEDs something. Gawwwwd
    not just me change it to an elf equal rights movement if we are going to have normal elves why not a dark elf option
  • Dygz said:
    Dygz said:
    Dark Elves always being the bad guys is an example of institutional racism.
    So, we really need to be moving away from that.
    Which is why the current design of Ashes is on the right track - rather than continuing to support institutional racism.
    So is night and day racism ?
    They are just dualistic aspects.
    My own definition between dark and light elves above held them as opposing philosophical arguments. Right or Wrong was subjective. So the institutionalised racism argument is a bit of a strawman. Although probably not without merit in some circles.
    What does night and day have to do with a race of people being intrinsically good or evil?
    For Elves in Ashes, the dualistic, "opposing" philosophical views will be the cultural differences between the Py'Rai and Empyrean: 
    Nature. Balance. Fury. vs Imperial. Pride. Culture.
    Rather than Good vs Evil.
    What the hell does light and dark elves have to do with institutionalised racism ?

    Yup i agree with you some things are just funny on this thread
  • Malgus said:
    Xombie said:
    Can we change the title to "Malgus wants -insert silly idea-" instead of proclaiming that the project NEEDs something. Gawwwwd
    not just me change it to an elf equal rights movement if we are going to have normal elves why not a dark elf option
    I think you should patiently wait to see how extensive the character creator is before deciding that the game "needs" something. Patience, young padawan.
  • They should have dark elves as non playable enemy and civilisation that has survived on Verra maybe.  The leader being called Fritz Do you den. 
  • what if it's a visual variant for the tulnar?
  • Xombie said:
    Malgus said:
    Xombie said:
    Can we change the title to "Malgus wants -insert silly idea-" instead of proclaiming that the project NEEDs something. Gawwwwd
    not just me change it to an elf equal rights movement if we are going to have normal elves why not a dark elf option
    I think you should patiently wait to see how extensive the character creator is before deciding that the game "needs" something. Patience, young padawan.
    okay :)
  • Malgus said:
    Xombie said:
    Malgus said:
    Xombie said:
    Can we change the title to "Malgus wants -insert silly idea-" instead of proclaiming that the project NEEDs something. Gawwwwd
    not just me change it to an elf equal rights movement if we are going to have normal elves why not a dark elf option
    I think you should patiently wait to see how extensive the character creator is before deciding that the game "needs" something. Patience, young padawan.
    okay :)
    Atta boy.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Dygz said:
    Dygz said:
    Dark Elves always being the bad guys is an example of institutional racism.
    So, we really need to be moving away from that.
    Which is why the current design of Ashes is on the right track - rather than continuing to support institutional racism.
    So is night and day racism ?
    They are just dualistic aspects.
    My own definition between dark and light elves above held them as opposing philosophical arguments. Right or Wrong was subjective. So the institutionalised racism argument is a bit of a strawman. Although probably not without merit in some circles.
    What does night and day have to do with a race of people being intrinsically good or evil?
    For Elves in Ashes, the dualistic, "opposing" philosophical views will be the cultural differences between the Py'Rai and Empyrean: 
    Nature. Balance. Fury. vs Imperial. Pride. Culture.
    Rather than Good vs Evil.
    What the hell does light and dark elves have to do with institutionalised racism ?

    Dark Elves intrinsically being the Corrupt bad guys who only have hatred in their heart is the epitome of institutional racism.
  • Dygz said:
    Dygz said:
    Dygz said:
    Dark Elves always being the bad guys is an example of institutional racism.
    So, we really need to be moving away from that.
    Which is why the current design of Ashes is on the right track - rather than continuing to support institutional racism.
    So is night and day racism ?
    They are just dualistic aspects.
    My own definition between dark and light elves above held them as opposing philosophical arguments. Right or Wrong was subjective. So the institutionalised racism argument is a bit of a strawman. Although probably not without merit in some circles.
    What does night and day have to do with a race of people being intrinsically good or evil?
    For Elves in Ashes, the dualistic, "opposing" philosophical views will be the cultural differences between the Py'Rai and Empyrean: 
    Nature. Balance. Fury. vs Imperial. Pride. Culture.
    Rather than Good vs Evil.
    What the hell does light and dark elves have to do with institutionalised racism ?

    Dark Elves intrinsically being the Corrupt bad guys who only have hatred in their heart is the epitome of institutional racism.
    Oh I see, your are directly equating black and white people with dark and light elves. Then making the tenuous relationship that they are one and the same. ie dark elf hatred is black person hatred.

    Are dark elves really corrupt bad guys ? Perhaps in your view. Not in mine. Which kind of makes it subjective doesnt it. I see them as rebellious anti established order. I seem theme as highly advanced. I see them as an equal. I guess we all see what we want to see.
  • I personally don't see the correlation of African Americans and Dark Elves.. Nor do I believe that all dark elf variants are inherently malevolent or evil. 

    This entire conversation seems out of place and I think we should all just formally agree to disagree to avoid any negative progression on the subject matter.
  • Honestly a topic about how Dark Elves should be added into the game turned into some racial debate... take to private chat if you really want to discuss this :3
  • A discussion stating that Dark Elves should be inherently Corrupt and inhrently the bad guys who only have hatred is racist. Pointing that out is important.
    And should not be a private discussion when that concept is shared publicly.
    Having dark skinned races or people of color be intrinsically Evil or savage or primitive and of low intelligence while light-skinned races are intrinsically Good or civilized or highly intelligent is inherently racist.

    Which is why it's great that Ashes has moved away from that racist trope.
    Easy enough to laud Ashes for having cultural differences for the player races that are not based on Good v Evil or where skin color determines whether a race is savage or highly intellectual.

    We should just hope that the character creator allows enough variety that both Py'Rai and Empyrean can achieve something close to the appearance of Dark Elves if there are enough players interested in playing with that appearance.


  • No. 
  • This is just my opinion on the matter but nobody said anything along the lines of "Having dark skinned races or people of color be intrinsically Evil or savage or primitive and of low intelligence while light-skinned races are intrinsically Good or civilized or highly intelligent"

    It was only said that Dark Elves give people the idea of a corrupted race, this doesn't mean that they are primitive or of low inteligence but rather a change to the species itself due to certain events, in this case it could be the Elves who failed to leave through the gates being corrupted by whatever caused the cataclysm causing their skin to change into dark/gray color, mental changes could be included like unjustified hatred of the races that managed to leave. Though there could be a complete degradation of the species into mindless beasts due to the cataclysm but we don't know anything about that. In fact Dark Elves are not even a mentioned race.

    If an author/creator decides that the race of Dark Elves in his universe are a corrupted race due to some sort of circumstances then that's it, fictional races are not good grounds for racism given that there are squid-people, cow-people, dog-people, slimes, walking crocodiles etc. otherwise we would be flooded with animal activitists ages ago... :naughty:

    I do understand where you are coming from though :3
  • Dygz said:
    A discussion stating that Dark Elves should be inherently Corrupt and inhrently the bad guys who only have hatred is racist. Pointing that out is important.
    And should not be a private discussion when that concept is shared publicly.
    Having dark skinned races or people of color be intrinsically Evil or savage or primitive and of low intelligence while light-skinned races are intrinsically Good or civilized or highly intelligent is inherently racist.

    Which is why it's great that Ashes has moved away from that racist trope.
    Easy enough to laud Ashes for having cultural differences for the player races that are not based on Good v Evil or where skin color determines whether a race is savage or highly intellectual.

    We should just hope that the character creator allows enough variety that both Py'Rai and Empyrean can achieve something close to the appearance of Dark Elves if there are enough players interested in playing with that appearance.


    If you read the original post, Malgus never requested that they be evil or filled with hatred, that concept was assumed and suggested nunerous times after though. You are the one generalizing and forcing the concept down everyone's throats. 

    Dark Elves do not have to have all the negative connotation you are suggesting, nor do they in many popular franchises. You seem to be fishing for an argument and grasping at straws.

    Again, I'll reiterate. We should drop the line of discussion, it was not the intent of the thread, nor is it beneficial to anyone. 
  • Xombie said:
    Dygz said:
    A discussion stating that Dark Elves should be inherently Corrupt and inhrently the bad guys who only have hatred is racist. Pointing that out is important.
    And should not be a private discussion when that concept is shared publicly.
    Having dark skinned races or people of color be intrinsically Evil or savage or primitive and of low intelligence while light-skinned races are intrinsically Good or civilized or highly intelligent is inherently racist.

    Which is why it's great that Ashes has moved away from that racist trope.
    Easy enough to laud Ashes for having cultural differences for the player races that are not based on Good v Evil or where skin color determines whether a race is savage or highly intellectual.

    We should just hope that the character creator allows enough variety that both Py'Rai and Empyrean can achieve something close to the appearance of Dark Elves if there are enough players interested in playing with that appearance.


    If you read the original post, Malgus never requested that they be evil or filled with hatred, that concept was assumed and suggested nunerous times after though. You are the one generalizing and forcing the concept down everyone's throats. 

    Dark Elves do not have to have all the negative connotation you are suggesting, nor do they in many popular franchises. You seem to be fishing for an argument and grasping at straws.

    Again, I'll reiterate. We should drop the line of discussion, it was not the intent of the thread, nor is it beneficial to anyone. 
    ^^ he speaks of true wisdom 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited April 2018
    @AutumnLeaf
    Your opinion on that would be wrong since:
    Malgus said:
    they could be a bunch of elves that stayed but got mutated by the corruption and only have hatred in their heart 
    Rainer said:
    Dark elves are always the bad guys, more reckless, arrogant, and dark architecture who live in underground.

    Corrupted Elves don't have to have dark skin.
    Corruption should have nothing to do with the darkening of skin.
    That perpetuates institutionalized racism.

    I actually didn't state that Dark Elves are depicted as being primitive or of low intelligence - rather I stated that people of color in fantasy games fall into the categories of Evil or savage or primitive or of low intelligence as opposed to light-skinned races. That is the trope.
    For Dark Elves, the category has been Evil; not primitive or of low intelligence.
    Forcing dark-skinned races to inherently have unjustified hatred while light-skinned races have justified hatred is racist.

    If an author/creator decides that the race of Dark Elves in their universe are a corrupted race while the light-skinned Elves are altruistic, that author/creator is perpetuating racism.

    Ashes doesn't have Dark Elves.
    Ashes doesn't have Good v Evil.
    Ashes does have Corruption.
    Corruption should not be associated with dark skin... and as far as I know it's not.
    Which is an exemplary, positive aspect of Ashes lore.

    People who wish to play Corrupted Elves can allow their Pyrian Elves to accrue Corruption. Skin color should be irrelevant with regard to that.

    People who wish to stop talking about connecting dark skin to Evil and hatred and Corruption can simply stop talking about it.
    And the discussion should organically move back to character creation options.


  • I think this thread has derailed slightly. The OP was talking about the aesthetic beauty of dark elves, and I must agree, I like that look. There will be racial skins in the game, and as mentioned, the character creator will allow freedom to adjust appearances; so hopefully we will see variations of all in-game races :)

    I do ask kindly that we do not attempt to bring real world racial issues into discussions about this wonderful game. Let's keep our discussions here focused on the world of Verra. <3
  • Rejoice! Rational people have intervened! I hope we can steer this conversation into kess troubled waters and continue to move forward :)
  • I'm a big time fan of Dark Elves, mostly due to having played Lineage 2. However, for me it would be enough if the character creator allows us to create elves who look like dark elves. Having a whole new race for it? Meh dunno, maybe in a future expansion or something?
  • Elves no matter the form or skin can go suck it hard !!  #Orcs4president!!!
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