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Please don't make the mage an elementalist

Hi
I just wanted to talk about how I see my favourite class depicted in every recent mmorpg. Mages are only portrayed as elementalists, basically launching the classic fire, ice, wind and thunder in some variants (balls, strikes, waves, meteors, etc etc). What I would love to see is a mage that maybe yes, has elements based spells but also has what a mage should have: arcane magic. By looking at the gameplay it is very obvious that the main weapon will be a spellbook, which is great. Therefore, I really hope that they will take into consideration magic that does not only draw from the classic elements but also creates arcane circles on the ground. I don't know about you but I love when in games mages have a cast time for spells in which they "draw" magic circles below them. It just gives more deepness to the class and makes it feel more like a real mage and not an element bender. I hope it makes sense. What do you think?

Comments

  • So, drawing circles on the ground to cast elemental spells and meteor showers would suffice?
  • No (even if it would be an improvement), what I meant is that mages should not be casting the classic spells only. Magic should comprehend a way vaster spectrum of spells, some of which should be utility, others buffs, and the effect during the cast time are really something not to ignore. I mean spells are what you use during 90% of your game time, how they "feel" and they look heavily impacts on the perception of your character and the enjoyment you get from playing the game. What i was trying to say is that I really hope AoC mages won't be the already amply seen elemental bender 
  • There will likely be a multitude of utility spells, buffs, etc.
    I like you point of view though, arcane energies, 'dark' energies, etc. should also play a role in the mages skill selection. However, in the end, I think you are likely to just end up with a 'fireball' like spell with a different skin.

    That said, you might get lucky and be able to change the skins so that, even if it does fire damage, it might look unique and you can rp it anyway you want.

    Spells with longer casting times would totally benefit from animations of arcane/magic circles complete with a glyph or what not.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited March 2018
    Azathoth said:
    There will likely be a multitude of utility spells, buffs, etc.
    I like you point of view though, arcane energies, 'dark' energies, etc. should also play a role in the mages skill selection. However, in the end, I think you are likely to just end up with a 'fireball' like spell with a different skin.

    That said, you might get lucky and be able to change the skins so that, even if it does fire damage, it might look unique and you can rp it anyway you want.

    Spells with longer casting times would totally benefit from animations of arcane/magic circles complete with a glyph or what not.
    Honestly I would take a re-skinned fireball over yet ANOTHER elementalist mage.

    Mages should be about manipulating the basic forces of time and space, or delving deep into forbidden arcane secrets. There's so many ways to get creative, and really  make a mage stand out and feel like an actual scholar. 
  • Exactly, thank you for expanding on that :)

    I saw the gameplay videos and that... levitation skill looks really cool, exactly what I meant. 
    Also, the fact that in AoC you can "combine" 2 classes makes me think of really crazy and exciting ideas, but still, I need to see more before getting so hyped up. I can't wait to see how the games evolves, this is the first time in my life i backed a game in kickstarter, and I'm so excited about it
  • Azathoth said:
    There will likely be a multitude of utility spells, buffs, etc.
    I like you point of view though, arcane energies, 'dark' energies, etc. should also play a role in the mages skill selection. However, in the end, I think you are likely to just end up with a 'fireball' like spell with a different skin.

    That said, you might get lucky and be able to change the skins so that, even if it does fire damage, it might look unique and you can rp it anyway you want.

    Spells with longer casting times would totally benefit from animations of arcane/magic circles complete with a glyph or what not.
    Honestly I would take a re-skinned fireball over yet ANOTHER elementalist mage.

    Mages should be about manipulating the basic forces of time and space, or delving deep into forbidden arcane secrets. There's so many ways to get creative, and really  make a mage stand out and feel like an actual scholar. 
    Yes! 

    I thought about opening this discussion after yet again checking for new mmorpgs to play and finding the Bless mage... big disappointment as always as it is another elementalist. I think Intrepid really has all the time, money and passion in it to make it right and deliver an outstanding and fresh game with a mage that can be called such. Another cool feature, in my opinion, is learning spells. While the majority of the spells should be learnt by levelling up I am of the opinion that really unique spells should be only obtained through crafting and or completion of quests and/or raids. This would really give a sense of importance to the spell and would stray away from the level up rush to get the OP lv 300 meteor. Additionally, some of these could be utility spells, or simply weird ones, they don't necessarily have to be really good or powerful, but they could contribute on making the game feel more alive and unique.  An example that i can think of on top of my head is the staff of that guy in skyrim that turned enemies into random stuff. Now that is very cool.  It adds a lot of depth into the spell set and provides a sense of reward for exploration. Imagine wondering and getting into a random quest with a random npc in a corner of the world just to find out that at the end you received a scroll to learn a new spell... It thrills me the amount of possibilities at hand
  • In D&D and even in EQ, there would be different schools of Arcane magic:
    Abjuration; Conjuration; Divination; Enchantment; Evocation; Illusion; Necromancy; Transmutation.

    In Ashes we have several sub-classes for Mages and Summoners:
    Shadow Caster; Spell Hunter; ArchWizard; Warlock; Sorcerer; Beast Master; Conjurer; Necromancer and Enchanter.

    I doubt that Spellswords, Nightspells and Oracles will just be doing elemental spells.
    And we will have to see what the differences are between an ArchWizard, a Warlock and a Sorcerer. I also doubt they will be focused on elemental spells.

    I'm not sure that Battle Mages, Shadow Casters, Necromancers and Enchanters will count as Mages in Ashes - but it seems like they will not be limited to just elemental spells...and that whatever elemental spells they might have have would function and appear differently than a basic elemental spell.
    We will also have to see how skins for spell FX change our perceptions of the experience.
  • I second this opinion.
  • Dygz said:
    In D&D and even in EQ, there would be different schools of Arcane magic:
    Abjuration; Conjuration; Divination; Enchantment; Evocation; Illusion; Necromancy; Transmutation.

    In Ashes we have several sub-classes for Mages and Summoners:
    Shadow Caster; Spell Hunter; ArchWizard; Warlock; Sorcerer; Beast Master; Conjurer; Necromancer and Enchanter.

    I doubt that Spellswords, Nightspells and Oracles will just be doing elemental spells.
    And we will have to see what the differences are between an ArchWizard, a Warlock and a Sorcerer. I also doubt they will be focused on elemental spells.

    I'm not sure that Battle Mages, Shadow Casters, Necromancers and Enchanters will count as Mages in Ashes - but it seems like they will not be limited to just elemental spells...and that whatever elemental spells they might have have would function and appear differently than a basic elemental spell.
    We will also have to see how skins for spell FX change our perceptions of the experience.
    Good point, this is exactly the kind of variety I would love to see. Make the spells diverse, make them feel variegate and unique. It really saddens me when i go check the skills of a mage in an mmorpg and it's the boring and classic 4 kinds of spells with the same old 4 elements. More mages, less elementalists! Would be cool to have a response from someone in Intrepid Studios :) 
  • Dygz said:
    In D&D and even in EQ, there would be different schools of Arcane magic:
    Abjuration; Conjuration; Divination; Enchantment; Evocation; Illusion; Necromancy; Transmutation.

    In Ashes we have several sub-classes for Mages and Summoners:
    Shadow Caster; Spell Hunter; ArchWizard; Warlock; Sorcerer; Beast Master; Conjurer; Necromancer and Enchanter.

    I doubt that Spellswords, Nightspells and Oracles will just be doing elemental spells.
    And we will have to see what the differences are between an ArchWizard, a Warlock and a Sorcerer. I also doubt they will be focused on elemental spells.

    I'm not sure that Battle Mages, Shadow Casters, Necromancers and Enchanters will count as Mages in Ashes - but it seems like they will not be limited to just elemental spells...and that whatever elemental spells they might have have would function and appear differently than a basic elemental spell.
    We will also have to see how skins for spell FX change our perceptions of the experience.
    /endthread

    Seriously though, there are 8 versions of a mage and then another 8 mage versions of every other class too. It would be kind of silly to make them all identical.
  • I remain optimistic that we will see plenty of variation.
  • Dygz said:
    In D&D and even in EQ, there would be different schools of Arcane magic:
    Abjuration; Conjuration; Divination; Enchantment; Evocation; Illusion; Necromancy; Transmutation.

    In Ashes we have several sub-classes for Mages and Summoners:
    Shadow Caster; Spell Hunter; ArchWizard; Warlock; Sorcerer; Beast Master; Conjurer; Necromancer and Enchanter.

    I doubt that Spellswords, Nightspells and Oracles will just be doing elemental spells.
    And we will have to see what the differences are between an ArchWizard, a Warlock and a Sorcerer. I also doubt they will be focused on elemental spells.

    I'm not sure that Battle Mages, Shadow Casters, Necromancers and Enchanters will count as Mages in Ashes - but it seems like they will not be limited to just elemental spells...and that whatever elemental spells they might have have would function and appear differently than a basic elemental spell.
    We will also have to see how skins for spell FX change our perceptions of the experience.
    /endthread

    Seriously though, there are 8 versions of a mage and then another 8 mage versions of every other class too. It would be kind of silly to make them all identical.
    Well it all depends on how class mixing works. Do you just get several spells from each base class? Or are the skills totally unique for each combination? 

  • Well it all depends on how class mixing works. Do you just get several spells from each base class? Or are the skills totally unique for each combination? 
    They have stated a couple of times how it works in their vision. You get the spells from your base class and you can augment how they are displayed or utilized from a limited set of changes that come from the secondary. So a fighter/mage may be able to add elemental damage to his weapon attack, the character will not be casting fireballs. A fighter healer can add a self-heal to an attack, but will not be casting heals on others. I believe the number thrown out there is 4 possible augments per base skill, giving plenty of customization. With so many options possible, there will be certain combinations that will be game breaking. Those are the ones they want to catch over the next year and half of testing.

  • The secondary class just augments your primary archetypes abilities, it's there to add new visuals, slightly new utilities, and "flavor".
  • ye this is great. I cannot wait to see more about the game. Sadly I will only be able to join the fray from the Beta 1 which i think will be around the start of 2019
  • That's optimistic thinking considering Alpha 1 is estimated for the end of this year.
  • Except if the Fighter/Mage is just augmenting his weapons with elemental damage, that would fit into the concern of the OP, I think.
    The OP is still hoping that a Spellsword does not have to be focused on casting elemental spells - that other schools of magic will be available to a Spellsword.

    Currently, a lot of the Mage spells do seem focused on the elements.
    The other type of spells we currently know about seem to be focused on movement.
    We'll just have to see how many spells we end up with that are not elemental spells.
    And then, of course, how the secondary archetype augments and racial and social augments alter the base abilities.

    http://aocwiki.net/Mage
  • Xombie said:
    That's optimistic thinking considering Alpha 1 is estimated for the end of this year.

    oh damn....
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited April 2018
    Interesting!!
    The Class List states that the Base Class/Primary Archetype goes across the top, so we should find the sub-classes as we move down vertically, but...

    Steven's quote above has the Fighter/Mage as a Spellsword.
    Which would mean we're supposed to find the sub-classes by having the Base Class/Primary Archetype listed vertically and then move across horizontally.

    The Art of War vid also indicates that Rogue is the Base Class/Primary Archetype for Predator.

    So seems like we are supposed to be finding the sub-classes by starting with Fighter as the base class and moving across: 
    Weapon Master; Dreadnought; Shadowblade; Hunter; Spellsword; Bladecaller; Highsword; Bladedancer.
    And with Rogue as the base class and moving across:
    Duelist; Shadow Guardian; Assassin; Predator; Nightspell; Shadow Lord; Cultist; Charlatan

    I mean, things could have changed, but... I don't recall Steven mentioning this as a change.



  • Magic overall is such a broad topic that if you included all it's possible uses then mages would be a supreme class to a certain extent, most mage classes in games should be able to use elemental spells while also using pure arcane magic with the addition of some convenience spells like teleport, shield etc.
  • ^This is why mages are usually the more squishy character types.
  • Azathoth said:
    ^This is why mages are usually the more squishy character types.
    ^ yep
  • As long a I get to throw Fireballs at people and slap them with a fish i dont mind.
  • Glass Canon is the life for me.
  • "mages" that cast different types of magic are called differently, warlocks, shamans, druids, etc.

    Mage is actually a group of different types of caster, all using magic, including elementalists, warlocks, druids, summoners, shamans, etc.

    You are talking about elementalist here, the fact that elementalist is refered to as "mage" is actually wrong.

    So what you could wish for is to add more types of mages into a poll, add blood wizards, etc.

    What you can't ask for is to add a "mage class" that includes several classes combined, because that would be too OP. This is what you are asking, to expand elementalist class to include other magic types. These magic types are already included in other classes that i mentioned, and you have an option to chose what type of magic you want to use, and then play appropriate class from the poll.


    So mage (someone who uses magic) = group of classes

    classes = elementalist, druid, shaman, warlock,...
  • You need to remember that all this magic circle stuff and "arcane" magic is based on the elements. Be it the classical ones from western alchemy or far eastern. There seems to be some space and time stuff as well, which is not unusual for Wizard/Mage/Sorcerer classes in other games. What I would love to see is some sort of star/constellation magic, that would be cool looking atleast imo.
  • I'd like to see telekinesis, illusions, variations of conjuration that aren't too similiar to the summoner, maybe a focus on plant life or even elements exclusive to the world of Verra.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited April 2018
    Yeah, I'm hoping for Illusion magic as well.

    Maybe my eyes are bad -I'm old- but I don't see Elementalist on the Class List.
    Traditionally, the types of magic in RPGs are Arcane magic (mages) and Divine magic (clerics).
    We don't know which schools of Arcane magic the different classes and sub-classes have access to.
    Seems likely that Mage, Summoner and Bard will be using different schools of Arcane magic. How those different schools combine as augments will provide us with the different feels for, say, Warlock and Sorcerer.

    Traditionally, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers and Druids are casting Divine magic.
    Ashes doesn't seem to have Druids and we don't know if Ashes has Divine magic as something significantly different from Arcane magic.
    Probably there won't be a meaningful difference.

    I would expect Bards to have more spells from the Illusion school than Mages...but, really, we just have to wait to see how everything works after augments are added.
  • Theres mages? I want my portals
  • I am hoping they don't focus too hard on AoE's and allow mages to have high end single target potential.
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