Combat type and how class selection will affect it.

ArchivedUser

So I was thinking a bit on how the controls will work for combat. Most games have a preference between tab targeting to action combat. Tab would have you click on an enemy to use your abilities and most of your abilities won't work unless you are within range of it. On the other hand action combat will usually let you use an ability without selection a target. If a target pops up it is usually incidental or just the last enemy you struck.

So when we think about how this game will be it'll probably be semi-tab targeting. It will usually require a target to cast unless it is a cleave/cone/ground targeted attack.

So with this in mind how will classes affect this? When I ask this I mean how will secondary class selection affect you? So imagine you play a character that is mostly a targeted attacker. Imagine taking a fighter with mostly melee swipes with a couple of cleaves/aoes and then augmenting it with mage. Now would that cause more of your abilities to be cleave/cones? Would you have your normal sunder strike now be a melee area aoe or an aoe around your target.

Let's try the flip side and think of melding a mage and subbing a ranger. I imagine this would cause the mage to have more of their attacks become focused. From an ice wall to an ice trap/caltrops. 

In general I'm wondering how much class combination will be affected by combat type. If abilities will be skewed from a single target/ aoe/ ground target/ area around target/ cone/ trap. I think it is an interesting aspect to this game. I'm sure you have all played a game where you know there is a stealthed rogue in the shadows somewhere and since you don't have any aoes on your action bar you can't blindly attack.

ArchivedUser

@loyheta Stephen explained it a bit on the live stream of The Ashen Forge yesterday and from what i remember he said that your base type of attack style will stay the same its just that the augment class you choose will only change it a bit. It keeps the same style of attack ( cleave, aoe, cone, target) but gives it a bit extra flavor ex. if you were a ranger and you augmented with a cleric. The clerics augments are Life and Death. So within your abilities you would could chose to augment with life or death life would be a healing type aspect and death would be a damaging type aspect.

ArchivedUser

Irie707 said:

@loyheta Stephen explained it a bit on the live stream of The Ashen Forge yesterday and from what i remember he said that your base type of attack style will stay the same its just that the augment class you choose will only change it a bit. It keeps the same style of attack ( cleave, aoe, cone, target) but gives it a bit extra flavor ex. if you were a ranger and you augmented with a cleric. The clerics augments are Life and Death. So within your abilities you would could chose to augment with life or death life would be a healing type aspect and death would be a damaging type aspect.

Ah okay that is interesting. It seems to be a smart way to handle augmenting, that way you don't have to worry about a class combo being a huge cleave spammer. I bet racial augments are going to factor in the same way.

ArchivedUser

@Loyheta Id assume so with the racials as well as possibly religion?? Who knows lol, Also he hinted at possibly being able to do profession augments as well but its on the back burner. A little more insight on it is that: say you're doing alchemy and animal husbandry, and once available you'd might be able to augment your potions to be able to give them to your pets and mounts and the example he used was being able to boost the mounts speed ect. If implemented it would be a cool way to do profession augments

ArchivedUser

@Irie707 oh nice.. I've never thought about those kind of augments. Really interesting system. I do hope they can pull it off and make it in-depth.

ArchivedUser

@loyheta right there with you man!

ArchivedUser

I think adding a Rogue augment to a Mage's Ice Wall would be more like adding a trap to the Wall.
While adding a Mage augment to Caltrops would add Ice damage to the caltrops.
But, we'll have to see.

ArchivedUser

@Loyheta
Well ... there's many ways to envision each Archetype

• so by default, i normally try to envision full-fledged Action Combat for every ability possible. ( due to tab-target being used too much imo )
• Afterwards, I'll tend to favor " freeform-less abilities " and see how Tab-target could be applied whereas needed
• Then - specifically for Ashes of Creation - i think of potential in-game physics & hitboxes 
• EDIT: an of course polishing and/or maintaining the " realism " of combat via fundamentals. Such as Regular sword-swings, arm-waving gestures, sword-to-sword collision / magic-to-magic collsion/ Sword-to-magic (?) via blocking. And other means

I do it this way, because tab-target ... while being commonly used, i personally feel as though Combat would need to be approached a different way

So with all this said ...
It really depends. If all Archetypes were built to be dominantly Action-Combat, then it'll lead to more potential/ options as to what it could become - more freedom to work with ( but not spammable ). If tab-targetting ... it'll be too limiting since Tab-targetting allows most attacks to follow its targets .... no matter how much you move around, the attack is going to land unless there are some passive evasive/ blocking capabilites. But that'll be too boring - why* have an " automated-background-system " decide that  ... when a player could individually decided that - further emphasizing & favoring the Skill aspect as opposed to Gear being the sole-deciding factor of who wins ... and that'll get stale & boring real quick. And practically unfair.

And that last part is coming from someone (me) who played an MMO, where low-levels have a (slight) chance of defeating high-level players. Which capitalizes the difference of Skill, Gear, Level, Attributes, Passives (via Armor or Abilities), and other variables to consider 

• For example ... what if there's an ability that'll does damage based on the difference of the attacker's lvl vs the User's Level ?
• what if there's an ability that does a set damage/ percentage of damage - regardless of what the Target's level is ? 
• ( think of the Pokemon Move: "Dragon Rage" for the above idea if it helps )

In short, the approach that Intrepid chooses to take will matter greatly. They already proven that they're thinking heavily on it in their 1st iteration via the " QTE Bar ". And later showing that they're not ... " out-ruling " the idea of Standard Tab-targeting as evident in their ... PAX East presentations.

And i still am eager to see their 1st iteration of their Bard, Rogue, Summoner and Fighter. Which I'm hoping it favors Action Combat - because then it'll leave more room for creativity ... just not spammable Action -Combat 

EDIT: and more room for adding in Tab-targetting aspects

ArchivedUser

I have a hard time aiming myself. Messing with third person shooting games and shoot at air when aiming at enemies.

That said. I'm tired of game assisted targettting (Tab) and really, REALLY, enjoy the few games I have run across with free style combat. AoEs who is center focused on a single enemy... while two others are just outside of range vs snapping the center of the AoE in position to hit all 3.

Aim'd attacks that don't just hit the enemy but can be focused on parts of the enemy. I'm really hoping that leg hits can slow down an enemy that a unarmored head hit will stagger or even stun dependant on the weapon. Yea it is more complex... that's why I want it.

I want complete control of my own attacks. If it misses it is MY fault and not some rng diceroll according to some predetermined stats.