needing Dual Armour?!?!

Digital_WindDigital_Wind Member alpha-stress-tester
Something that I very much fear.

Lets say you're running a Fighter/Fighter or Fighter/Rouge as the situation needs.  Being able to fluently switch between the Fighter sub-classes as designed.  Nice and happy.

You also want to play a Fighter/Tank too.  But then BAM!  You realize your DPS focused Armour shatters like the dreams of children.

Here's the question and I hope someone can shed some light.  Do you think the secondary classes, for some combos, will require hybrid or the collection of dual armor sets OR will perhaps the sub-class abilities still be based on your main stat.  

For example, if I roll Cleric/Cleric and Cleric/Tank, will getting the best results from your toon require a second set of tanking armor based on Endurance.  Or will it not matter - go full Cleric when min/maxing your gear as the Augments provide the tanking flavor and their strength is STILL based on your Cleric Main Stat.

Edit:  Please scroll down for a better 1-2-3-4 explanation of the question if you are confused.  This is a very complex question to describe.


Sometimes...when you've been bashing your head against a wall for hours trying to take down a boss and it seems like you will never progress - all you need is a breath of fresh Digital_Wind.

Comments

  • UnknownSystemErrorUnknownSystemError Member alpha-stress-tester
    Armor will have situational stats. We know for example that heavy will offer better physical protection and light better magical. Whether it be pve or pvp, depending on your build you will want to have appropriate sets for what you are doing. Do not expect to see a toggle that will allow you to swap sets on the fly, maybe a loadout utility, but nothing on that has been clarified.
  • LoyhetaLoyheta Member alpha-stress-tester
    Hopefully they'll have some kind of tool to help with this. I doubt armor will be bound to your subclass so maybe they'll have a set saving option. Or maybe we can make our own macros where we can run /equip or /use items by name. Not sure though.
  • EragaleEragale Member alpha-stress-tester
    1. hmm ... well. first-off, they'll only be one type of Gear. There will be no " PvP Gear " - just PvE Gear  used for all.
    2. If you're referring to " mix-matching " Gear of other Gear sets ... i don't see why that would be a problem
    If there's only 1 " best-in-slot " Gear set ... then everyone is going to look the same - killing the immersion. Even if there was 10 " best-in-slot " gear sets ... i really don't think that would help . And  i better not be referred/ forced to buy something from the Cash Shop either.  :/



  • MADEMADE Member ✭✭
    Even if you pick Fighter/Tank that doesn't mean that you are a tank AND a dps. You need to choice. Whether you want to paly as a tank OR a dps.

    ofc with that combo even if you have dps gear, you will have more surivability than a fighter/fighter, but your class only defines your spells, and your power comes by your gear.

  • Digital_WindDigital_Wind Member alpha-stress-tester
    One set of gear for Cleric/Cleric stats like Spirit + one set that is a hybrid with large amount of Health instead of some Spirit.  Or will the abilities on the Tank part of Cleric/Tank STILL be based on your "main stat" of Spirit.

    Example:  I main Cleric/Cleric but sometimes roll Cleric/Tank.  A traditional tank uses a large health pool and a defensive stat, lets say Absorb, however my Cleric/Tank uses Spirit (main stat) based Tanking thus eliminating the need for two set of armor.
    Or will the different flavors require you to more finely tune your gear for a hybrid.


    Sometimes...when you've been bashing your head against a wall for hours trying to take down a boss and it seems like you will never progress - all you need is a breath of fresh Digital_Wind.
  • VoidShadowVoidShadow Member ✭✭✭
    Seems like it'll depend on numbers and whats best suited to your situation or playstyle
    Where there is light, there is shadow. I am the shadow without the light. The shadow of nothingness. The VoidShadow
  • Digital_WindDigital_Wind Member alpha-stress-tester
    Seems like it'll depend on numbers and whats best suited to your situation or play style
    But will it even be neseccary?  If the tank part of Cleric/Tank is still based on your Cleric stats as the Tanking one augments the Cleric skills, it won't be.


    Sometimes...when you've been bashing your head against a wall for hours trying to take down a boss and it seems like you will never progress - all you need is a breath of fresh Digital_Wind.
  • CptBrownBeardCptBrownBeard Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15
    I don't think they've mentioned anything about it, but I could see IS designing the archetypes to work so that your secondary archetype gives you a bonus amount of a stat (i.e. "absorb" for cleric/tank as you said) that the bonus on the skills flavored by that second archetype can scale off of. So a doubled down archetype will get more scaling and thus be more efficient in their role, but hybrids can still provide for that role to an extent.

    Armor could then be given flat defensive stats, but provide bonuses to a specific stat so one set could cover what type of playstyle you are aiming for.
  • LoyhetaLoyheta Member alpha-stress-tester
    edited May 15
    Eragale said:
    1. hmm ... well. first-off, they'll only be one type of Gear. There will be no " PvP Gear " - just PvE Gear  used for all.
    2. If you're referring to " mix-matching " Gear of other Gear sets ... i don't see why that would be a problem
    If there's only 1 " best-in-slot " Gear set ... then everyone is going to look the same - killing the immersion. Even if there was 10 " best-in-slot " gear sets ... i really don't think that would help . And  i better not be referred/ forced to buy something from the Cash Shop either.  :/



    Dual armor, not duel armor. He is talking about a system that will let you swap your gear sets when you swap your sub-class. Similar to FFXIV's set saving for when you change your class, it'd change your armor too.
  • EragaleEragale Member alpha-stress-tester
    edited May 15
    MADE said:
     but your class only defines your spells, and your power comes by your gear.

    This would be based on how Ashes is designed. Some MMOs is matter of Gear - no skill being needed. Other (few) MMOs its the opposite. 

     favoring Hardcore or Softcore/ Hard-to-learn or easy-to-learn. Maybe both ? idk
  • EragaleEragale Member alpha-stress-tester
    Dual armor, not duel armor. He is talking about a system that will let you swap your gear sets when you swap your sub-class. Similar to FFXIV's set saving for when you change your class, it'd change your armor too.
    ???? That already sounds too easy :/
  • Digital_WindDigital_Wind Member alpha-stress-tester
    edited May 15
    Loyheta said:
    Dual armor, not duel armor. He is talking about a system that will let you swap your gear sets when you swap your sub-class. Similar to FFXIV's set saving for when you change your class, it'd change your armor too.
    I am not talking about an automatic armor/stat swapping system (which would be a possible solution from the devs!) when swapping between two Class/SubC.  I'm talking about the Stats required for the abilities and the stats on the Gear.

    A lot of Confusion, so I will give a Hypothetical for us to consider.

    1. Slayer69 rolls an endgame super min/max Fighter/Fighter and wants to diversify to Fighter/Mage or Fighter/Tank
    2. Slayer69 wants to again min/max his gear, but his melee brawl oriented gear isn't so good for either Magic based combat or Tanking.
    3. Possibly:  To min/max, will Slayer69 have to own 2 sets of Armour, one F/F and one F/M or F/T hybrid.
    4. Possibly:  Only one set of gear is needed to min/max and Slayer69 will have to make few if any changes when re-specializing as the "Mage" and "Tank" are still based on the Fighter's main Stat - 'Strength', and the more 'Strength' the stronger his Magic and Tanking enhancements to his class are.
    Something I am very curious about and definitely worth thinking about as some of us won't be spending 100% of our time on only one of the 8 flavors of our main class.

    Hope that clarifies, I'll add a little note on the OP to look down here.


    Sometimes...when you've been bashing your head against a wall for hours trying to take down a boss and it seems like you will never progress - all you need is a breath of fresh Digital_Wind.
  • LoyhetaLoyheta Member alpha-stress-tester
    @Digital_Wind ; Ah I see. That does bring an interesting idea. I guess it really boils down to how stats and stat weights work in the first place.

    I've seen many games handle many stats differently. I've seen wow go from spell penetration and spell power go to versatility. I've seen swtor go from having aim/cunning/strength/etc all balled up to mastery.

    So I guess we'd need to know the formulas and see if a f/f would benefit most from str and armor pen to a f/m which would benefit more from power/crit. I really don't know how stats will work and if gear will have all-around benefits so you can gain bonuses to both physical and magical damage. Then we'd need to see how damage scales with magic/physical/cleave/aoe/dot/haste etc. 

    So overall it is a very interesting question that we really don't have any way of answering. Class/damage balancing is usually something that is always worked on and constantly in a flux of balance. 

    On a side note, I wonder if certain main-classes will benefit from more things like having procs based off of crits, higher starting values, higher scaling, higher soft caps, etc etc.
  • nagashnagash Member alpha-stress-tester
    Why use armour when you can use dead bodies 



    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead do not fight one another. The dead have no desires, no petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • EragaleEragale Member alpha-stress-tester
    edited May 16
    nagash said:
    Why use armour when you can use dead bodies 


    That'll be fairly easy when you can wash everything away >~>
  • nagashnagash Member alpha-stress-tester
    Eragale said:
    nagash said:
    Why use armour when you can use dead bodies 


    That'll be fairly easy when you can wash everything away >~>
    I'm not some weak ringwraith you know

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead do not fight one another. The dead have no desires, no petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • CaelronCaelron Member alpha-stress-tester
    I think there's a lot of assumptions being made here...

    We know armor can be interchangeable, whether you're a Mage or a Tank.
    We know that weapons will probably have more of the stats you'll need to be more effective - nothing will restrict you as a tank from wielding a Mage's tome to tickle the enemies with magic.
    We also know that some armor will be tailored to physical damage reduction, and others to magical damage... and even that "gear" might be a specific stat or enhancement made to the armor.

    It's also been stated that you can change your secondary class - but it won't be a trivial thing to do.  For all we know, it could take a day or more of travelling and questing to go from Mage/Mage to Mage/Tank.

    The only way I would think you'd like to walk around with more than a few pieces of gear is to be better equipped to resist certain types of damage, or deal certain types of damage - maybe the boss deals all magical damage, but it's all physical damage leading up to it?  That plate armor might not be the best anymore.  Or maybe there's a hidden cave behind a lava waterfall and you need fire resistant gear? (I don't think we don't even know if there's specific resistances even)  Or perhaps gear that just doesn't burn up or melt right away?

    There's also going to be a limit to what you can carry... so I imagine that most gear will be in a bank/storage somewhere, too.

    There's too many unknowns at this point to really see any potential problems.  For all we know, the crafted gear can be super specific between various stats based on skill... so everything can be pure preference rather than optimized math or sim data based on a specific class.

    @Digital_Wind I definitely share your fears of having multiple sets of gear for multiple specs.
    But at the same time, I don't mind having multiple sets of gear for multiple situations.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member alpha-0-rank
    The entire premise of this thread seems to be built around the notion that when a fighter/fighter shifts their class to a fighter/tank of a fighter/mage they are no longer primarily a fighter.

    We have no reason at all to think a fighter/tank will be a tank, rather than a fighter with greater survivability, just as we have no reason to think that a cleric/tank will be able to tank. A tank/cleric is a tank, whereas a cleric/tank is a cleric.

    We know that the majority of a subclasses function comes from it's first class, the class that can not be changed (as of yet). This class determines all of the abilities every subclass of that class has - and the subclass simply determines small changes to those abilities.
  • Digital_WindDigital_Wind Member alpha-stress-tester
    edited May 17
    Noaani said:
    The entire premise of this thread seems to be built around the notion that when a fighter/fighter shifts their class to a fighter/tank of a fighter/mage they are no longer primarily a fighter.

    We have no reason at all to think a fighter/tank will be a tank, rather than a fighter with greater survivability, just as we have no reason to think that a cleric/tank will be able to tank. A tank/cleric is a tank, whereas a cleric/tank is a cleric.

    We know that the majority of a subclasses function comes from it's first class, the class that can not be changed (as of yet). This class determines all of the abilities every subclass of that class has - and the subclass simply determines small changes to those abilities.
    Well I already brought up several items of what you said, that's what I was hoping to clarify - Does being a Cleric/Tank require Tanking Stats (thus requiring dual armor sets) or will stacking Cleric Stats be just as good (Cleric/Cleric armor loadouts will be 95% fine for all Cleric/X flavors)

    Both systems have their advantages, but, I would personally hate to have to collect two set of armor for only one character.


    Sometimes...when you've been bashing your head against a wall for hours trying to take down a boss and it seems like you will never progress - all you need is a breath of fresh Digital_Wind.
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