Selling Buffs

ArchivedUser

One thing I always enjoyed about EverQuest and Star Wars Galaxies was making money off of my skills without having to be a crafter. There was a time when I was a druid and those that wanted to travel fast across a map would seek me out for a "Spirit of the Wolf" buff. Essentially it was a movement buff akin to a modern MMORPG's mounts. I always thought it was fun that in those games you could sell your buffs/enchantments to other players. Granted I liked making friends so I often just handed them out for free as my mana allowed.

Then EverQuest 2 came along and put an end to that, buffs were now mostly restricted to in-party players. To this day in EverQuest people will stay in the newbie zones and hand out free shield buffs or bite backs to help power level new players. I remember it was always a huge benefit to have high level buffers in a guild because they could give you some of the best boosts in the game to grind levels and it was fun and social.

Will Ashes of Creation support such a system? Or will buffs be restricted to in-party players as has become the norm in so many games?

ArchivedUser

I always loved those RPing entertainers in the cantinas in SWG.. dancing and working for tips as they buffed travelers. It was so great.

ArchivedUser

Holibrae said:

To this day in EverQuest people will stay in the newbie zones and hand out free shield buffs or bite backs to help power level new players. I remember it was always a huge benefit to have high level buffers in a guild because they could give you some of the best boosts in the game to grind levels and it was fun and social.

To each their own, to be sure all of our opinions as invested gamers should be valued, but this is why I dislike the idea of selling buffs. I'm not against making anything fun and social, but I don't think that using other high level characters buffs on your low character should facilitate your advantage over other players in your level group. I think part of the growth of a good player in almost any game usually comes from going at it 100% in the dark the first time around. 

Granted, I mean all of this in terms of combat situations specifically. If we have something like buying portals to cities as Mages can do in Wow, I don't really care about that.

ArchivedUser

I would never buy a buff.
Y'all crazy!!!

ArchivedUser

Not a fan of this for reasons mentioned by others. In a real world scenario i don't mind paying to see traveling entertainers but in a game, its not my cup of tea to pay for a buff.

ArchivedUser

Sounded like a good idea, but being able to give them out for free is odd. If there was a minimum gp cost based on skill level, I would be down. I think the player should be able to negotiate above that price, but not go lower.

I love the concept, but like many things mentioned in the forums, I am worried about implementation and abuse.

ArchivedUser

I would pay a lot just to hear @Diura play her froggy bagpipes now that would be quite the sight don't you agree ^^

ArchivedUser

I did this as a Priest in TERA. I would stand near dungeon portals or open world pvp portals and buff those doing solo farming or raid groups without a priest lol. Was so much fun. 

ArchivedUser

I remember those days well.  I used to get angry when some would trying selling ports for outrages prices. especially ignoring newbies.   In that case I used to openly port others for no cost.   

ArchivedUser

*stand by @nagash holding bagpipes* Gee us a tenner 'n I'll play~ xD

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

I would never buy a buff.
Y'all crazy!!!

Never say never lol

ArchivedUser

Taverns in effect will be selling food buffs, and from what Steven said this will be a viable business.

ArchivedUser

@Dygz SWG had a system where the buffs you got from entertainers where they were pretty much required to be effective and gimped you severely from a power perspective. You needed to group with the entertainers to receive their buffs and watch/listen for a set cycle. It was early days when macros were all the rage, so the entertainers could set up /AFK invites and a message with their requested fee or "tip." If you didn't pay they could go back over the log and add you to their ignore list so in the future if you just tried to get their buffs without paying, you could only do so once.
The great thing is that we know that there is going to be little if any macro functionality, and afk actions are not something they want in game if they were to go that route via buffing others.

ESO currently goes the other way with food/drink. There are no longer buffs from players except as a function of certain armor sets while grouped, but food/drink is pretty much a requirement to meet basic power levels. Their crafting allows anyone to max every crafting however, so you indeed never need to pay someone for a food/drink buff once you have the recipe with the stats you are looking for.

Until we know more what the exact plan is from them on the stance of buffs from players being persistent only while grouped or long lasting drive-by applied, it is all just speculation.

ArchivedUser

I would never pay for buffs. What other people choose to do is up to them.
I always buff other players for free.
If you want free buffs, come find me.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

I would never pay for buffs. What other people choose to do is up to them.
I always buff other players for free.
If you want free buffs, come find me.

Very admirable. Many players would also give buffs for free while passing by strangers. Was always nice when some random Druid walked by you and gifted you with SOW or some other person with some other type buff. I would do it as well.

Personally I was never apposed to buying or selling them either.  Selling stacks of food were a thing so why not buffs. 

External buffs kinda disappeared from many games I think with many of them purely for the reason if anyone was going to sell buffs it would be from cash shops and not players was one of the major reasons for this. 

A nice side effect were nice little social hubs people would go to between adventures sometimes it would be primarily in one location sometimes a few main hot spots would avry from game to game or server to server where these hot spots were. Hopefully be many hot spots maybe through taverns grab an ale, supplies, buffs or tell or listen to stories of wondrous adventures. 

Found memories whether they were bought or sold and given or received for free.

ArchivedUser

Use to love giving drive-by buffs and sows.  You can do it in Ashes but be careful, if you are green and buff purples it will turn you purple.

ArchivedUser

In WoW people bought portal travels from mages. I am not sure how good money you could do with that, but i remember people did whisper and wanted to buy travel services when i was playing with my mage. 

But i am not sure if devs should implement a system so it would be easy to sell services. I guess those should more like just happen if players wants to and it wont need that much planning. So imo leaving the possibility is enough.

ArchivedUser

In Ragnarok Online priests would sell time as "heal slaves".  You wouldn't party with them (so you wouldn't leech exp), just follow them around and throw out heals. Then every 15 min or so you'd group to enchant their weapon.  I don't really see it happening in AoC, but I'm not really sure how shared exp works or how tough the grind will be.

ArchivedUser

Maybe we are all playing different games because I personally don't understand the attitude towards buff sellers. The game I am most familiar with is SWG and people had to invest time leveling up their entertainer (usually days of playing music). This was their class. This is what they did for money instead of questing, pvping, crafting, etc. These buffs were bonuses and not needed. They were really nice buffs that added to your experience. (the kind of stuff you'd see in cash shops these days).

I don't know why people think they should get stuff for free from other players that they spent hours/days of their lives leveling. If I want furniture, I buy it from a carpenter; if I want a new robe, I buy it from a tailor; if I want an exp gain buff, I buy it from an entertainer.

ArchivedUser

If I ever come across a player that charges for a buff I'd never play with that person. like for real who charges for a buff? I understand someone who can conjure ports charging since that saves you time and time is money but for a single 1-2% damage or defense buff that really doesn't make a difference, get over yourself.

ArchivedUser

xschlemmx said:

If I ever come across a player that charges for a buff I'd never play with that person. like for real who charges for a buff? I understand someone who can conjure ports charging since that saves you time and time is money but for a single 1-2% damage or defense buff that really doesn't make a difference, get over yourself.

If it doesn't matter then why would it bother you so much that they wouldn't freely share? If people are talking about WoW type of buffs, aka instant cast hour long tiny buff, then if I really wanted one, I'd go to a town and hit up all the classes that can give me those buffs. If people want to charge for something that they can provide and you can't naturally get... then that is their right. 

ArchivedUser

Would never play with someone charging for a buff?
That's intense, I understand never buying/selling a buff, but judging the entire player over that, okay.

If Ashes implements performing like they did in SWG as a way for Bards to earn gp and other things without having to adventure, there will be times my bard sells buffs.

If bard buffs become super useful and everyone wants one and I get asked a couple times every hour by strangers, my bard will start selling buffs (if they can in game).

If bard buffs are generally helpful, but not amazing, most of the time I'll just give them out free to whoever I see passing by that I might want to get to know. I like the thought of seeing random groups killing mods and running up there to 'sing' about it (buffing them).

Again, if it's in demand, I'm selling it. That's how supply/demand works.
I'm pretty amazing too, so it would be your loss for not playing with me because I made some idiot pay me after bugging me for ten minutes.

ArchivedUser

Think about it from a real-world perspective if you go to a pub/bar and there is live music you are more likely to spend money. That may be in the form of a ticket or just tips, so it's entirely reasonable in my opinion. 

If you see bards as a service, then you are not enjoying the idea of bard buffs. I mean you are meant to sit in a pub with your party planning a boss raid while having drinks. Then all of a sudden this bard come on stage and starts singing, and you listen to them, feel empowered by the moving words and ready to take on the boss. This is how I see bards in ashes not just people who buff other people but part of the living world.

ArchivedUser

I would play with people charging for a buff, I would never pay for buffs.
Just like I would never pay people for healing or enchanting or any other abilities.
I'm a hippie communist - not a capitalist, so, again...
Y'all who want free buffs - come find me.

PS
Maybe in SWG, Entertainer was an Artisan class. But, in Ashes, Bard buffs come from Adventurer abilities.
I would pay Bakers for food - most likely.

ArchivedUser

I'm gonna make a Max Tavern with 5 Star Cuisine...  That's how I'll be selling my buff. I don't want to have to spam chat, meet up with, and haggle with someone for a boost to my running speed.

That doesn't sound like fun - I wouldn't mind however paying money to Taxi me to another city on a group mount.

ArchivedUser

Digital_Wind said:

That doesn't sound like fun - I wouldn't mind however paying money to Taxi me to another city on a group mount.

Maybe even possibility to craft a boat, wagon or carriage, which can be used to transport other people. That would sound fun and reasonable. 

ArchivedUser

I remember getting druid SotW buffs in EQOA back in the day. Definitely made life easier. I never had to pay for it. I think the only games I have paid for spells to be cast on me was WoW for mage portals and FFXI for White Mage teleports. I don't mind personally if people want to sell buffs. I don't think I'll buy one off anyone but if they can make money doing it that's fine. The one thing that started to annoy me was people /shouting constantly trying to sell teleports and it spamming up world chats so you couldn't see if a world spawn was happening or something. 

With the existence of taverns I would expect the majority of buff selling to center around those areas. 

ArchivedUser

I imagine if a tavernkeeper would want a lively tavern they'd have great food, ale, and entertainment. They would pay for all these things directly or indirectly (paying a cook vs importing exotic foods for example). Most musicians I know ask for a flat rate per hour or a base fee + a percent of ticket sales/food and beer sales. Some people perform on the street for tips. Some do it for free just to get their name out there.

My point is that musicians do these things for a living and I'd expect to be paying directly or indirectly for the entertainment they provide. 

That being said I don't really imagine bards will be able to do this but I'd kill for some proper musical instruments that can be played like in LotRO. I want this game to be fleshed out and lively. I want to see players making the world alive instead of restrictive game elements and static npcs

ArchivedUser

Loyheta said:

 I'd kill for some proper musical instruments that can be played like in LotRO. I want this game to be fleshed out and lively. I want to see players making the world alive instead of restrictive game elements and static npcs

 I played a minstrel in LOTRO and I loved their music system. One can dream to see this in AoC some day...

EDIT: Regarding the OP about selling buffs. I like when people can buff each other and trade those benefits. But It seems to me we will get enough trade from the food and other crafting professions to "buff" each other. If they don't make a business out of class skills I don't think I'd miss it.

ArchivedUser

Honestly most buffs will probably be so weak and take so little effort for someone to give they will not have any kind of value. But, maybe some buffs will require materials or rare items to use/give which may create a market for this.

ArchivedUser

ah EQ days where buffs lasted an hour and almost doubled your exp rate.  Of course, mana took multiple minutes to regen so selling them made sense as it could cause you serious downtime to cast it.  I liked it, but I can't imagine a modern gaming community accepting such a slow regen system.  It can be simulated by reagent cost, but we will have to see.