Trade and local economy

ArchivedUser

I was watching some videos on AoC and it seems that (at this point) there will not be a World Auction House, just local ones...assuming they are available once a town get's to a certain level/growth.

This Leads into the transport system (caravans) to move goods between Towns.

A few of questions I have regarding this.

1. I have read that the caravans will be attack able. I assume Guards can be hired/trained to protect the caravans? or is this mechanic aimed at guild groups protecting them?
2. if its aimed at guild protection...will this lead to large guilds controlling the economy/market values in large popular cities by stopping the competition using the Markets in their chosen cities?
3. If large guilds are controlling cities do they also get a tax paid to them?
   
4. Will the Caravans be the only way to transport good between towns or is there other mechanics? 
   
5. How easy is it going to be to steal a Caravans Goods?

I like the idea of the system as it creates a micro economies, But i am interested to see who AoC will manage this

ArchivedUser

 In Ashes, everything has consequences from the moment we step through the portal and how we live, play/work and build in Tera.

Here is some basic info from the Ashes wiki linked below.

 “Caravans and Mules are intended to be the primary mode of transportation of goods.

Mules can carry roughly 10 times more than backpacks. Caravans can carry roughly 10 times more than mules.

Caravans will have carrying capacity limits and customizable stats, such as defensive points, speed and number of hired NPC guards

Besides hiking with an over loaded backpack, Caravans and mules will be the primary mode of transporting goods.  Mules can carry approximately 10 times more then backpacks. Caravans can carry  about 10 times more then mules.

Individuals can hire caravans.   Guards can be hired.  Guild groups or you and your friends can accompany a caravan.  Caravans can initiate a PvP  activity and other players in the vicinity will be offered the choice of joining to defend.

“Caravans will have carrying capacity limits and customizable stats, such as defensive points, speed and number of hired NPC guards”

 

Taxes:

When a node reaches stage 3 (Village) and a player run government has formed, all player housing will pay taxes. Tax money goes toward funding node development. A player's tax charge will be determined by the number of structures built on their plot.

Mayors/Node governments allocate resources, taxes, and quests to help develop node defenses”

Types of buildings and defenses are bought with taxes.  The government will determine how to develop the town."  

Here is a link to our community developed wiki.  It’s updated as soon as we get new information about Ashes.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans

ArchivedUser

1. You can not hire guards for personal caravans. Yes, you are intended to use friends to transport goods around.

2. A guild could try to do this but it's hard to tell atm if it would be worth it. We don't know how often people will be using caravans so it might not be frequent enough to be profitable. There is also the fact that by attacking all other caravans from your node you are scaring people away which will ultimately weaken your economy. If people can't get stuff done, they will just move away and you will be left with less people contributing to your economy.

3. Node taxes are locked to the node and can only be spent on the node.

4. There are mules but it sounds like we are intended to use the caravan system for transportation of goods but I don't think we have the details on why this might be.

5. Once you destroy the caravan, you can loot it for vouchers that you can take to the node the caravan came from and get the materials it was carrying. We don't really have the specifics on this.

ArchivedUser

McStackerson said:

1. You can not hire guards for personal caravans. Yes, you are intended to use friends to transport goods around.

2. A guild could try to do this but it's hard to tell atm if it would be worth it. We don't know how often people will be using caravans so it might not be frequent enough to be profitable. There is also the fact that by attacking all other caravans from your node you are scaring people away which will ultimately weaken your economy. If people can't get stuff done, they will just move away and you will be left with less people contributing to your economy.

3. Node taxes are locked to the node and can only be spent on the node.

4. There are mules but it sounds like we are intended to use the caravan system for transportation of goods but I don't think we have the details on why this might be.

5. Once you destroy the caravan, you can loot it for vouchers that you can take to the node the caravan came from and get the materials it was carrying. We don't really have the specifics on this.

I hate to give false information.   Where did you find that individuals couldn't hire guards?  I haven't been able to find that info pertaining to individuals.   The following was out of the Wiki:

Caravan components

Certificates to create a caravan are issued by certain NPCs within nodes or at certain points of interest in the world. These certificates are comprised of multiple components:[11]

• Wheels.
• Chasis.
• Steeds.
• Armor rating.
• Hit points.
• Capacity.[10]
• Speed.[10]
• Number of hired NPC guards.[10]

Caravan components obtained from crafters will have stats according to the skill of each artisan.[11]

Caravans are the main transportation of goods between towns and nodes.   The economy. including crafting, building, and maintaining our structures and  towns will depend on being able to trade between regions.   Resources will depleted and located indifferent areas.   

Caravans are an essential part of Ashes PvP and PvE.  Many will be manned and planned by guilds as well as individual groups.  Individuals are given the opportunity to join guild sponsored or any caravan also when an attack is imminent.  

Again from the Wiki:

 Caravan PvP

Caravans create an open PvP zone that flags players for combat (purple).[12]

• Players will be able to state their intentions to attack, defend or ignore via a user interface.[13][14]
• A group will be required to successfully attack a caravan.[3][10]
• If a caravan is destroyed, it will drop a portion of the goods it is transporting.[3][15]
• Caravans drop certificates for heavy goods that are redeemable at the origin node for a portion of the goods

ArchivedUser

There are indeed npc guards for freeholds and caravans planned. Multiple mentions during some livestreams. So until we have a quote otherwise, npc hireable guards are a thing.

So link a livestream with a timestamp where he says something, and it can be taken as gospel. We have some of the latest livestreams where they attribute their speed of development on them not having endless discussions of what they envision, but instead have a concrete plan envisioned by the man that those who work for him are tasked to implement.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

There are indeed npc guards for freeholds and caravans planned. Multiple mentions during some livestreams. So until we have a quote otherwise, npc hireable guards are a thing.

So link a livestream with a timestamp where he says something, and it can be taken as gospel. We have some of the latest livestreams where they attribute their speed of development on them not having endless discussions of what they envision, but instead have a concrete plan envisioned by the man that those who work for him are tasked to implement.

https://youtu.be/evmT25JzY1k?t=31m4s Pretty sure this proves that you can't hire guards for your freehold. Do you have something where he says otherwise?

 I'm reasonably confident that he said you can't hire npc gaurds for personal caravans. I think it was in one of the summer livestreams, going through them now. 

EDIT: I might be wrong. I think this is where i got the idea https://youtu.be/g-UeHMcBXIg?t=13m18s He makes a comment about having to rely on friends to defend your caravan but it was referring to the part of the system that allows others people to join to defend and being rewarded for doing so. 

ArchivedUser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3078&v=LUJugtqTBxw
Timestamp 51:16 and 30:30

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3078&v=LUJugtqTBxw
Timestamp 51:16 and 30:30

I see where you are coming in the 30:30 quote but that was also in the context of a siege and this might be the difference. Being able to hire NPCs doesn't necessarily mean gaurds. We know you can hire NPCs to function as shop keepers and crop managers.

Can you see where I where I am coming from. In the video i posted, which is from earlier this year, he is clearly saying that you can't hire gaurds, at least as a permanent thing. Maybe guards are only a post siege thing or maybe it's outdated info.

ArchivedUser

Like usual it is just speculation on a mechanic that they themselves haven't even coded for yet. We'll just have to wait and see over the next 6 months. A1P1 won't resolve many issues either. It will be mainly pvp, combat, and siege/battleground/arena testing from what they have said. PVE systems reveals will be most of 2019 I imagine.

ArchivedUser

Well it seems like this would be a good question for Steven on the next broadcast.  In prior info he does say guards can be hired for caravans.  No where does he actually state they can't be hired for personal caravans.   Friends and guild mates can always accompany and guard any caravan.  

ArchivedUser

Thank you all for your reply. I like the concept of the caravans and it will be interesting to see how they play out.

Can I assume if I am transporting a bunch of Mats and perhaps a Bad-ass Epic sword with my Caravan and its attacked...There is a chance my Bad-ass epic sword may find its way into the hands of a new owner?

ArchivedUser

As far as we know there will be certain "classes" of materials and processed goods that will be able to be transported by caravan. If the caravan is looted those goods will be in the form of share certificates that will be redeemable through a mechanic. They have not clarified if individual items will be able to be looted. Your bad ass epic sword would most likely be carried by you and the only way that it would become lootable is if you were to die while under a high enough level of corruption to trigger a chance of gear dropping. Since a caravan is a pvp zone, if you were to die while flagged, the corruption mechanic would not be in play. Normal flagging does not give "full loot" permissions, which is what many people still misunderstand about pvp in Ashes.

ArchivedUser

I would be very concerned about this becoming similar to Eve where trade transportation is financial and literal death.

I think I might stick to hunting caravans pr prehaps doing a weekly guild haul

ArchivedUser

@Digital_Wind I agree completely with your reference with Eve-Online and it was one reason I stopped playing it. If over 4 weeks I create items from crafting in AOC and sent them via caravan that happened to be destroyed that would be a huge loss in my online time and knowing this I would never use a caravan to ship anything worthwhile at which point why would crafters every ship anything via caravan?

ArchivedUser

ssweet said:

@Digital_Wind I agree completely with your reference with Eve-Online and it was one reason I stopped playing it. If over 4 weeks I create items from crafting in AOC and sent them via caravan that happened to be destroyed that would be a huge loss in my online time and knowing this I would never use a caravan to ship anything worthwhile at which point why would crafters every ship anything via caravan?

Yes I agree.

Also the Bad-ass sword I was referring to was a crafted Item I was shipping of to market at a popular trade hub where I figured I would get a higher value for it.

But if there is a chance it could fall into the wrong hands then i guess I would carry it to market myself  

Lets assume that only base materials can be looted (wood, ores, flour ) then can we assume that "Gathering" of these items will not be a tedious venture?

One of my favorite parts of BDO is managing and growing my workforce of NPC

ArchivedUser

I can imagine the game play opportunities caravans will bring, like posting mis-information in guilds as to where and when there will be a caravan traveling a certain route or even creating a decoy caravan which essentially carries nothing. You don't want to tip off spies within your own guild right? 

ArchivedUser

I cant imagine that players wont be able to hire NPC guards to protect their caravans.  Caravans are an integral part of the game economy and as such need to be solo friendly.  When core game mechanics require groups, MMOs fall apart.  

ArchivedUser

Microdose said:

I cant imagine that players wont be able to hire NPC guards to protect their caravans.  Caravans are an integral part of the game economy and as such need to be solo friendly.  When core game mechanics require groups, MMOs fall apart.  

Confirmed that players will be able to hire guards, depending on size, type and build of caravan. More here. http://www.aocwiki.net/Economy