Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Let the player control their immersion (Cosmetic Filtering)

TLDR - AoC needs a system that allows a player to define substitute textures / mounts for cosmetics that they deem immersion breaking.

I need to start by saying that I believe cash shops and cosmetic items are an unavoidable and necessary part of the longevity of any modern MMORPG. While there are many examples of how not to do cash shops in the market, if AoC sticks to true cosmetics that offer no advantage and aren't consistently preferable to in game looks, then it should be a welcome addition to the game.  Subscriptions, as noted by FFXIV producer Naoki Yoshida, provide consistent and predictable income which allows for regular maintenance and content updates to the game and should be primarily use its own resources (developers, artists, etc).  The cash shop should have its own resources and provide more sporadic injections of cash to the project which should be used to both maintain the flow of content in the cash shop and fund bonus/experimental/or niche content for the game, resulting in a more robust game overall.

With that being said, even if executed perfectly, the influx of cosmetics into the MMORPG has inadvertently broken the RPG immersion of the genre. When telling a story in a RPG the rules of the game-world should be grounded in reality.  That reality can be fantastical and imaginative but the world should have rules and make sense to the player to help immerse that player in the world. Once you add the MMO element on top of the RPG certain aspects of that immersion slip but developers have found ways to help with those.  Example: Undead rogue named LankyBones hurting your immersion for a non-lore based name? No problem, turn off other player's names. Cosmetics should be no different, and should have a solution that gives players the option to preserve their immersion. It is not fair to a player to tell them they can't have a cosmetic because it breaks the immersion of someone else, but it's equally unfair to break someone's immersion to allow access to a cosmetic.

After exploitative practices, I think the inability to protect your immersion from cash shop cosmetics is the number one problem created by their presence.  While I always have the choice not to purchase the cosmetics, no game that I am aware of has a mechanism that prevents me from having to see them in "my" game world. There are hundreds of examples of immersion breaking cosmetics, whether it's chain-mail bikinis, weapons made of unreal items (lollipops, fish, or frying pans), real world references, stuffed bear mounts :smile: , etc.  Hopefully the system outlined below is something AoC will consider implementing as a way to lead the industry in further empowering player agency in the genre.

Texture Filtering System -
From what I understand, and I am not a game developer, every texture is stored on my machine, and a table somewhere in the game files points to that texture location with a reference ID as a key. When another player needs to be rendered, their data, including equipment texture IDs, is sent to my machine from the server,  it then uses that ID to lookup the texture location from the table, which it retrieves and then processes.

From a technical standpoint, what I am proposing is simply having another table that is looked at first, which contains reference IDs for textures that I want my client to substitute and the location of the substitute texture.  So when a player wearing a maid outfit runs by, the ID is looked up in the substitute table, where it is found and returns the location for a generic robe bypassing the lookup in the normal table.  This should also work for mounts because I imagine the mount reference is looked up first before any animations or sounds.

From an interface standpoint I imagine something similar to World of Warcraft where mounts and armor that I have encountered (had rendered on my screen) would be populated in a preview panel for "review".  After reviewing the items and flagging them for substitution (perhaps choosing the substitution from a generic list or any base tier item I have seen previously) I would save my flags.  By default the preview panel would only show the non-reviewed items with an option to filter on flagged items or all.  Additionally the ability to export/import flags, as well as revert to no flags would be present.

I just wanted to put this idea/opinion up to see if others agreed with the lack of control over immersion that inherently gets pushed on players whether they participate in the cash shop/cosmetics or not, and if so I hope that AoC is listening and the first to address this.

Comments

  • The only thing I could think of would be an all or nothing sorta of feature like Archeage has.

    Either you see people how they want to be presented, or you get them all in a default standard.

    What you are asking for would be resource intensive.  
  • Jahlon said:
    -snip-

    What you are asking for would be resource intensive.  
    By default your computer has to pull up the graphic for every piece of gear someone has so it can be rendered to your screen.  Each piece has an ID that is looked up to find the location to load the texture from.  Changing certain IDs to point to new locations to load the substitute texture wouldn't require any additional resources. 
  • PharazonKensaki said:
    What you are asking for would be resource intensive.  
    It's not really.

    When you consider how many things the game client needs to look up in order to render a character, having it load in two different items for each visible inventory slot is not exactly a draw on resources.

    I know a particular game that had two character model types for almost all races, each model with full customization. Players were able to select which of the models they wanted displayed for each gender of each race. On top of this, the game still allowed players to chose to display either the wardrobe or equipped slot exactly in the manner you have deemed resource intensive.

    Basically, this game was pulling enough data to render two full characters per actual character, and then left it up to the user as to what they actually saw.

    On top of this, the game in question is almost 15 years old.

    Fortunately, *many* of the development team at Intrepid worked on that particular game, and so know it was fairly easy to pull off over a decade ago, and so should be no harder today.
  • Raises hand

    "Ew Ew I know, I know"

    EQ2
  • the question I have is "why should the devs do this?"
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2018
    nagash said:
    the question I have is "why should the devs do this?"
    It has a lot to do with how they have presented AoC, and honestly most MMORPGs do similar things when pitching their game.  They talk about the world and the lore and how it will harken back to the older days of MMORPGs where there was more emphasis on the RPG and immersion. By not having a system like this in place you are inherently hurting your ability to present the RPG side of your game in a "serious" way where a player can feel immersed.

    It's not that they should force everyone to play that way, and I love that as MMOs have aged we have expanded the ways for people to enjoy them, I just think they have lost sight of that RPG immersion that so many players enjoy. 

    FFXIV has a really nice touch that after every dungeon when you "win" that your character is the one at the front and center of the group pose as the music plays.  Its a small touch to let you know that you are the "Warrior of Light" and the rest are the people you recruited to help.  And each of the other members of the party are at the front and center of their screens. When there is a way to increase a persons immersion and reinforce the RPG side of the MMO I think it should be done.

    From a resource investment standpoint most MMOs have a wardrobe/transmog/glamour system and AoC is supposed to as well.  This is really just an extension of that technology and shouldn't add much from a workload standpoint.  The reality of the modern MMORPG is that some people don't care about immersion and just want to play and wear fun cosmetics and never think about the game in a true RPG sense, and that is totally fine and should be supported.  I just wish it wasn't at the expense of people who want to play the game in a more immersive way, and a system like this would allow for both play styles and additional choices for the player is rarely a bad thing.

    For the record, I have bought a ton of cosmetics in support of games that I enjoy and sometimes I don't care as much about immersion, but other times when the story grabs me, I really want to be able to get immersed and having out of place cosmetics that I have no control over keeps me from being able to do that.

  • There was a similar thread before and I got to say I am completly against it, it would be one thing if IS released ridiculous armors that dont suit the game but otherwise I dont see why you should be allowed to change the way you see other players since some buy cosmetics to show off their sense of fashion etc. if anybody is interested in things like this then there are some mods for other games that change the original appearance of an item but only for you so maybe someone will create a similar mod for AoC if possible. In all honesty though I feel that something like this should not be in the game.
  • There was a similar thread before and I got to say I am completly against it, it would be one thing if IS released ridiculous armors that dont suit the game but otherwise I dont see why you should be allowed to change the way you see other players since some buy cosmetics to show off their sense of fashion etc. if anybody is interested in things like this then there are some mods for other games that change the original appearance of an item but only for you so maybe someone will create a similar mod for AoC if possible. In all honesty though I feel that something like this should not be in the game.
    Just looking at the PAX East Boston cosmetics and Sir Stuffington mount I think it's clear that there will be cosmetics which don't fit the game world (and what people think looks out of place is going to vary anyway). I don't have a problem with them existing and I don't have any issue if you or anyone else want to express your sense of fashion by having them.  But that is for you and how you experience the game, and shouldn't be something people with different visual taste than you can't turn off. 

    All the mechanics to enable this system would already be in the game.  Instead of displaying a piece of armor it loads the look of whatever is equipped in the wardrobe slot.  You can "skin" your mounts.  All I am suggesting is to have the additional UI needed to have those types of substitutions and re-skinning happen a bit more globally letting players protect their immersion.

    As for modding your game, its almost always against the ToS of MMOs and depending on the anti-cheat system, and enforcement by Intrepid you are risking your game.  Like some mods out there (Reshade, ACT, etc) you may be able to use them without consequence but you shouldn't have to go outside the game to get a feature like this and incur that risk.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2018
    T-Elf said:
    Raises hand

    "Ew Ew I know, I know"

    EQ2
    Yep.

    I am still amazed how far ahead of the curve that game was in many respects.
  • There was a similar thread before and I got to say I am completly against it, it would be one thing if IS released ridiculous armors that dont suit the game but otherwise I dont see why you should be allowed to change the way you see other players since some buy cosmetics to show off their sense of fashion etc. if anybody is interested in things like this then there are some mods for other games that change the original appearance of an item but only for you so maybe someone will create a similar mod for AoC if possible. In all honesty though I feel that something like this should not be in the game.
    Just looking at the PAX East Boston cosmetics and Sir Stuffington mount I think it's clear that there will be cosmetics which don't fit the game world (and what people think looks out of place is going to vary anyway). I don't have a problem with them existing and I don't have any issue if you or anyone else want to express your sense of fashion by having them.  But that is for you and how you experience the game, and shouldn't be something people with different visual taste than you can't turn off. 

    All the mechanics to enable this system would already be in the game.  Instead of displaying a piece of armor it loads the look of whatever is equipped in the wardrobe slot.  You can "skin" your mounts.  All I am suggesting is to have the additional UI needed to have those types of substitutions and re-skinning happen a bit more globally letting players protect their immersion.

    As for modding your game, its almost always against the ToS of MMOs and depending on the anti-cheat system, and enforcement by Intrepid you are risking your game.  Like some mods out there (Reshade, ACT, etc) you may be able to use them without consequence but you shouldn't have to go outside the game to get a feature like this and incur that risk.
    Well you have your opinion, I'm just saying that the entire idea does not sit well with me at all :3
  • Good gods the game is in a fantasy world if some of the items look out of place but has lore then they are not breaking immersion. As for the Stuffington mount, you could say a powerful summoner gave his son a toy bear, but his son died to bandits so he now uses the bear as a mount to remember his son. It's not hard to make good lore that fits the theme no matter how odd it looks.

    Just because it does not fit your view of immersion does not mean it is breaking lore or the world around you. For example, you could have a festival just for mushroom where everyone dresses up like a mushroom. It may look odd as all hell but as it has lore its okay.

    I have been an RPer for almost 20 years and for me, lore is the most crucial thing in a game like ashes, and that is what grabs you into the game world. The difference between a true RPer and an average person is the degrees of separation or how far you a willing to dive into this new world. The more in-depth the lore, the more we have to use which in turn helps us to create our own stories and not just follow the pre-laid path.

    if something breaks your immersion as easily as some odd items then you were most likely not in the game world, to begin with. 
  • @nagash
    .... that Bear is a real mount ? 
  • Eragale said:
    @nagash
    .... that Bear is a real mount ? 
    It is indeed just like the bear mount this month
  • nagash said:
    Good gods the game is in a fantasy world if some of the items look out of place but has lore then they are not breaking immersion. As for the Stuffington mount, you could say a powerful summoner gave his son a toy bear, but his son died to bandits so he now uses the bear as a mount to remember his son. It's not hard to make good lore that fits the theme no matter how odd it looks.

    Just because it does not fit your view of immersion does not mean it is breaking lore or the world around you. For example, you could have a festival just for mushroom where everyone dresses up like a mushroom. It may look odd as all hell but as it has lore its okay.

    I have been an RPer for almost 20 years and for me, lore is the most crucial thing in a game like ashes, and that is what grabs you into the game world. The difference between a true RPer and an average person is the degrees of separation or how far you a willing to dive into this new world. The more in-depth the lore, the more we have to use which in turn helps us to create our own stories and not just follow the pre-laid path.

    if something breaks your immersion as easily as some odd items then you were most likely not in the game world, to begin with. 


    I have been playing RPGs tabletop and otherwise just as long and love when the lore of a game creates a world that feels alive but that doesn't mean anything in this conversation.

    Because its fantasy you can come up with a ton of off the wall reasons for that bear mount, or other cosmetics to exist, though based on your explanation I would argue its such a personal and emotional thing to that one summoner he isn't mass producing them for there to be that many in the game.

    The fact is you can have your mushroom festival with mushroom hats, summer swim suit beach event, or any other not-to-far-out-there cosmetic and that is fine.  But when I am out fighting ferocious beasts in the wilds and other people are still wearing those as wardrobe pieces while fighting you are breaking immersion, and being able to turn them off for "my" game world would be beneficial. 

    The Boston cosmetics and the bear mount can be immersion breaking, maybe not for everyone, but that is less the point than what they represent.  If before the game is even out there are cosmetics that exist that require the player to perform mental gymnastics to justify, then it's safe to assume they are not going to be the worst offenders as the game grows. I don't want to stifle the creativity around the cosmetics they can design and have spent more money than I care to admit on items that definitely don't fit the lore of games I've played, but most of the time if the lore is good I wish for a way to preserve that immersive experience.  This system could provide that and the basics of the system would exist in the wardrobe slot functionality and the ability to "re-skin" a mount so this isn't even a large addition to the game.

Sign In or Register to comment.