How will healers and tanks be balanced?

ArchivedUser

I ask this remembering back to a livestream when it was said that although a tank could subclass as a fighter, a guardian(tank/tank) would still be the better tank. My question is, despite having different utility for each subclass, how will the healers and tanks be balanced so that say a shaman(cleric/summoner) would be able to hold its ground to a high priest(cleric/cleric) when it comes to healing, or a warden(tank/ranger) holding its own against a guardian in terms of tanking?

ArchivedUser

Balance is being worked on. They haven't even released the last 4 archetypes. Literally anything anyone tells you right now is pure speculation and will change several times before live release. So while it is sure to not be the answer you are looking for, no one knows for sure. They have a plan, but they are loath to give specific mechanics as information, because then our rabid base nitpicks it apart, starting a never-ending cycle of statement and correction.

ArchivedUser

Why should a hybrid be able to hold its own against a purebread?  if you want to add a little flare to your class by veering away from its purest form why should you be as good?  if your a tank and wana give up potential higher tanking augments to use a bow instead why should you be as good as a tank/tank??  other wise whats the point of going tank/tank?

ArchivedUser

Eroenne said:

Why should a hybrid be able to hold its own against a purebread?  if you want to add a little flare to your class by veering away from its purest form why should you be as good?  if your a tank and wana give up potential higher tanking augments to use a bow instead why should you be as good as a tank/tank??  other wise whats the point of going tank/tank?

Although numerically, Tank/Tanks should be able to take more raw damage than a hybrid, hybrids should not be inherently inferior to Tank/Tanks. Hybridizing should allow a more diverse and possibly situational kit that is still viable even compared with a pure Tank/Tank.

This does not mean that a hybrid Tank/Damage class should be able to withstand heavy damage just as well as the Pure Tank. To be more specific, if I build a Tank/Rogue (Nightshield), I would probably have fewer raw-tanking abilities, but perhaps rely more on damage negation (dodges, parries, deflects) depending on how I chose to augment each of my abilities.

At least, this is the direction that I believe the game is going, or something along these lines.

ArchivedUser

For now lets wait until IS starts to even work on the classes.

ArchivedUser

Eroenne said:

Why should a hybrid be able to hold its own against a purebread?  if you want to add a little flare to your class by veering away from its purest form why should you be as good?  if your a tank and wana give up potential higher tanking augments to use a bow instead why should you be as good as a tank/tank??  other wise whats the point of going tank/tank?

The reason I ask this is because say a cleric/cleric pulls so much healing it leaves the hybrids in the dirt, then besides the utility offered, hybrids would have nothing to compare with purebreads and there would be no reason to be a hybrid in end game content. 

ArchivedUser

They said your secondary class could be changed through a quest.  I wonder how long this will take?  I could see if your a person that mainly plays with 2 or 3 people every night it would be nice to have more of a hybrid feel to your character covering more of the bases.  So say your a healer but alot of nights you log on you find yourself playing with the same small click of clan mates and you might wanna augment yourself with a mage or bard to add a little help to you duo or trio, then when siege time comes around switch back to cleric/cleric for all out heal power.  Another example would be rouge/rouge.  I love the smaller scale stuff but when it comes time to siege or raid i would want to add archer skills or something with range like the predator route.

ArchivedUser

We have no firm details on how long it will take to swap out your secondary as of yet. They have said in the past that they do not want "everyone to be everything" and that your choices to have real meaning and impact on your playstyle. There was a comment of "we haven't decided that yet" on whether you would even retain the previous augments when you swapped back. So say you run Cleric/Cleric for your raid, but then take the time (and probable lengthy cooldown) to swap to Cleric/Ranger. You would be able to augment your Cleric abilities with the Ranger augments that match your Cleric abilities. You will not be able to use the Ranger base skills, they just augment your Cleric ones to give "flavor" in most cases. You find you don't like that and switch back to Cleric/Cleric. If in the future you go back to Cleric/Ranger, you would most likely have to unlock those augments all over again.

ArchivedUser

They said that the 2nd class will be only flavor of the main class.
I think the tanking meaning mainly 2 aspect. Survive and hold the aggro.
To survive you can have high armor, avoid damage or you can heal yourself. Regarding the aggro, you can generate it against multiple enemy or just against a single one.

So that is how I imagine it:
Tank/tank - megahigh armor
tank/rouge - high armor with some avoidance
tank/cleric - high armor with self healing
tank/mage - high armor with extra magic resistance
tank/summoner - high armor with temporal extra life
tank/fighter - high armor with extra agrogeneration against single enemy
tank/ranger - high armor with extra agrogeneration agains farther enemies
tank/bard - hihg armor with extra agrogeneratio against multiple enemies

If they think the same, without knowing a fight I am not able to decide which tank would be the best for it.

ArchivedUser

What @UnknownSystemError says is truth, but at least its something to go on. But even so, I'd always assume that everyone knows that Intrepid can change these Systems at anytime ... hence: Thats why its been ALL Pre-Alpha up until this Point - still in the testing phases

• You can " technically " deem Alpha 0 as BOTH Pre-Alpha & Alpha ... simply due to the Wording . ( hence: Alpha Zero )

With that said, this is all we got

•  https://youtu.be/ZnoHtzaQeMs?t=51m28s ( ends at 54:17 )

Again, because this is still testing phases, anything could change

ArchivedUser

@Koltovince ^^^^

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

" ...  They have said in the past that they do not want "everyone to be everything" and that your choices to have real meaning and impact on your playstyle ... "

^

ArchivedUser

Sikuba said:

Eroenne said:

Why should a hybrid be able to hold its own against a purebread?  if you want to add a little flare to your class by veering away from its purest form why should you be as good?  if your a tank and wana give up potential higher tanking augments to use a bow instead why should you be as good as a tank/tank??  other wise whats the point of going tank/tank?

Although numerically, Tank/Tanks should be able to take more raw damage than a hybrid, hybrids should not be inherently inferior to Tank/Tanks. Hybridizing should allow a more diverse and possibly situational kit that is still viable even compared with a pure Tank/Tank.

This does not mean that a hybrid Tank/Damage class should be able to withstand heavy damage just as well as the Pure Tank. To be more specific, if I build a Tank/Rogue (Nightshield), I would probably have fewer raw-tanking abilities, but perhaps rely more on damage negation (dodges, parries, deflects) depending on how I chose to augment each of my abilities.

At least, this is the direction that I believe the game is going, or something along these lines.

I agree that different tank combos can many times do he job equally well, just differently. Also though, I think it can and should vary depending on the encounter as well as the player's skill. 

For example, a Paladin may have an advantage tanking against a undead creature due to his holy abilities. 
Or say, any other tank hybrid fairing better than a tank/tank due to making smart choices or tactics that accommodate his abilities.  If you followed the exact same script doing the exact same moves with every tank archetype, then your results should vary in my opinion.   That "flair" of a subclass should have weight and meaning, both in how you play and the outcome in a encounter.