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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Character stats
ArchivedUser
Guest
I'd like to open a discussion that could help the dev with our feedback
My most recent mmorpg was ESO.
In ESO there was an insane ammount of stats that would affect:
Dmg output
Dmg mitigation
HP/MP
For example damage could be affected by:
Atk power sta
Max MP stat
Damage Done stat
Armor Penetration
With every patch people would spend time farming crafting enhancing gear to figure out which Atk stat would make the dmg output higher instead of experiment with active combat abilities and combos.
I think it would be better if AoC would keep stats simple and not use
multiple stats that affect dmg output
multiple stats that affect dmg mitigation
multiple stats that affect HP/MP
To me simple stats seem to be:
HP
MP
HP recovery
MP recovery
Physical power
Magical power
Physical defence
Magical defence
Critical rate
Debuff resistance
Debuff potency
Speed
(Stamina resource? [fighter mp] )
Battle Spirit? [additional HP, usually for tanks/warriors] )
I'd rather expirament with active numerous skills than crunch numbers with numerous stats.
My most recent mmorpg was ESO.
In ESO there was an insane ammount of stats that would affect:
Dmg output
Dmg mitigation
HP/MP
For example damage could be affected by:
Atk power sta
Max MP stat
Damage Done stat
Armor Penetration
With every patch people would spend time farming crafting enhancing gear to figure out which Atk stat would make the dmg output higher instead of experiment with active combat abilities and combos.
I think it would be better if AoC would keep stats simple and not use
multiple stats that affect dmg output
multiple stats that affect dmg mitigation
multiple stats that affect HP/MP
To me simple stats seem to be:
HP
MP
HP recovery
MP recovery
Physical power
Magical power
Physical defence
Magical defence
Critical rate
Debuff resistance
Debuff potency
Speed
(Stamina resource? [fighter mp] )
Battle Spirit? [additional HP, usually for tanks/warriors] )
I'd rather expirament with active numerous skills than crunch numbers with numerous stats.
0
Comments
Games do this on purpose.
They will change what is best in regard to a given stat, simply because they know the bulk of players will then go out and farm to get that 0.5% improvement. Then with the next update, they will change it again - on purpose.
Look at Archeage - there were three ways of introducing new coin to the game - packs, fishing and coin purses. One of these would always be well above the rest, making ridiculous money, and one would be so bad that is would almost not be worth it. Every three months they would swap what was what, meaning that players were doing well fishing for three months suddenly find themselves losing money and having to gear up to make and run packs in order to make money.
It's small balance tweaks like these that developers do to keep the unthinking masses occupied. It doesn't balance the game any better or worse, it just means that people that think it's worth it to spend that much time on something that is that small and going to change anyway will actually waste time on it.
People like myself would simply look at ESO's max MP, MP reduction and MP recovery and go "hey, they are going to fuck around with those three stats, and I can't be bothered with that". So instead, myself and people like me just be sure and average out the three stats as best we can, and ignore the small changes to them (though keep vigilant for any major changes).
I can't say either way whether Intrepid will do similar in Ashes. I don't think they will though, as Ashes has built in content (the node system) to keep players occupied - something ESO absolutely doesn't have.
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As far as what stats I'd like to see, honestly, the more the better. I don't want to play a children's game, and as long as it is made obvious what each stat actually does and there is no obfuscating silliness, then as far as I am concerned, more stats simply means more options - and more options are always a good thing.
I don't like how gearing your character is usually independent of your class/build choice and more about your role choice. With a few exceptions, damage dealers, healers, and tanks generally gear the same way that is optimal for their role.
I feel like attack damage should be the optimal stat to get for damage. It's only when you have created a crit build with your class, race, and ability choice that you should seek out crit stats to further improve it. Pen should be a stat you sacrifice attack damage for to counter characters that are resistant to your damage type. It shouldn't be an all around damage buff.
I think the core problem will always remain and probably should. Builds will be buffed and nerfed as time goes on. What's optimal will change. Not only will things be changed but as servers develop, different options will appear. New stats, passives, actives, and set bonuses will appear on gear, further changing what's optimal. I just want a little more of a reason behind my stat choice and would like it to be more synergistic with my build.
If the game is well balanced, the BIS option will be a couple of percentage points higher than the rest. Some people who adjust their characters to take advantage of the new BIS meta, even for such a minor increase in performance... and all the power to them. Most people, however, will maintain their preferred play-styles.
I saw this back in Rift PvP every time there was a balance patch released. A buff to Pyromancers and Harbingers sub-class would result in a significant increase in those sub-classes in the Warfronts. The majority of people stuck to their tried-and-true sub-class and dealt with the minor disadvantage. The term FOTM (flavour of the month) captured this phenomenon quite well, as you'd see a change in the sub-class composition of Warfront teams every one or two months.
This allowed for the co-existance of those who enjoyed regularly changing up their play-styles alongside those who preferred static play-styles.
Of course, if the BIS advantage is so extreme that people would be forced to change to remain competitive... well, people would leave.
I stuck with Rift for four or five years. I only left when my preferred sub-class (Chloromancer) became so underpowered that even my long-developed skill and experience could no longer compensate for its disadvantages.
For example, lets say you play as Warlock. Maybe BiS is to have a lot of Crit chance. You could say that there's no point having all the options if Crit chance is the best, but for another class, like for example Necromancer, Dot power might be what you want for BiS.
So sure, there will most likely be "one solution" most of the time for you, but it would be very very boring if all classes went for the exact same stats.
Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be that black and white either. There could be stats that you want for a specific fight, or you want to change between PvP and PvE.
Atk power stat
Dmg done stat
Armor penetration stat
and focus on active skills.
In other words, I'd rather experament with active skills than crunch numbers.
Simple stats.
Don't really understand what you mean with "experiment with active skills". Just like everything else, there will be some kind of "rotation" of skills that is best to use. At first there might be a lot of experimentation since it looks to be a lot of variables for this game, but after a while, there won't really be much experimenting to do.
I edited the OP. I used less words to try to stay on my point. Some times I used too many and meaning gets lost. Have another read and I might make sense now.
Unlike any other game I can think of, a part of the reason way we will build our class in Ashes is deciding how much active vs how much tab targeting combat we have.
Since this is something that varies greatly between people, the best build for a given class will vary greatly between people.
While a spreadsheet (or parser, if Intrepid lets us use them) may be able to tell us what the "best" build for a given class is, they won't be able to take the specific situation of the player in mind.
The simple fact that some people will take longer to aim an active skill than others means people will want different builds.Even *if* the game launched with a simplified version of stats like this, it wouldn't remain that simple for long.
If crit hits aren't in the game, they will eventually be added. When they are in the game, players will want a stat to increase their chance to crit.
Players will also want a stat to increase the increased damage from a crit.
Players will also want a stat to mitigate extra crit damage.
In order for classes to be varied, the classes need to do different types of damage, and need to better defend against different types of damage. If the game is reduced down to physical damage and magical damage, with attack and defensive stats for each, then this game only has need for four classes, not 64.
That is basically what stats do. They allow one thing to be different from another thing. They allow one class to be different from another class, they allow one item to be different from another item, they allow one build to be different from another build.
If you don't *want* to crunch the numbers - don't. As with any game ever- including ESO - you only need to get in to that sort of specifics if you are getting in to the very top end of the game.
You didnt read the OP.
When did I say I dont want crit chance stat?
Any mechanic like that will have multiple stats associated with it.
One could easily say the same about mana.
If mana is in the game, players will want a stat to increase their mana pool.
Players will also want a stat to regenerate mana faster.
Players will also want a stat to reduce the amount of mana they have to use.
The point is, these "systems" - whether they be HP, mana, crit, damage types, whatever - will all need associated stats with them.
Saying you want fewer stats is the same as saying you want fewer of such systems - yet these systems will all eventually be put in to the game, along with their associated stats.
This makes a lot of sense, especially when planning an MMO where characters are meant to feel unique and special and to connect with the players. To alter or reduce the stats on a class changes these characters, and in doing so, devalues the effort and connections that have been woven into them.
To implement classes with this goal in mind, balance must be impeccable almost from the start, which, with 64 potential class combinations, is no easy feat. But assuming it is done well, it is very unlikely that we will see the sort of forced changes to the meta that you are describing. With that in consideration, more stats becomes more varied game-play and itemization potential, which is something I wholeheartedly support - to a point.
- Sikuba