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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
PvP game balance heals and self heals.
One of the things that needs to be looked at very carefully is defensive cool downs and self heals. If your class says does pretty good damage and falls short in self heals (unless most class do not have self heals) or defensive cool downs in comparison to other classes then that class is out as far is pvp is concerned. Having the abilty to heal your self a little or some defensive cool down while at low health is critical in pvp. A class that is lacking in this area is no good for pvp. But looks like all class will be able to spec into cleric and get some self heals.
Same thing if a class has an over abunance of selfheals that might present a problem unless they are a healer and is really squishy and does little dps. But DPS with an over abundance could be a problem.
Just to give you an example if I have a 20 percent self heal that you do not then you have to do 20 percent more dps to kill me and I would only have to 100 percent damage. Another point is if I have a class that does really good damage but lacks in self heals.......well dead dps is no dps ....they will not live long enought to do that dps.
Point is defnsive cool downs and self heals have to be looked at very closely. Another example is if I am playing a class that can provide a defensive cool down to a freindly palyer than that class has the potential to be overpowered.
I have been in situations were I know I played my class better than my opponent, doubled and tripled him in dps but lost cause of self heals. Have to go will finish post later.
Same thing if a class has an over abunance of selfheals that might present a problem unless they are a healer and is really squishy and does little dps. But DPS with an over abundance could be a problem.
Just to give you an example if I have a 20 percent self heal that you do not then you have to do 20 percent more dps to kill me and I would only have to 100 percent damage. Another point is if I have a class that does really good damage but lacks in self heals.......well dead dps is no dps ....they will not live long enought to do that dps.
Point is defnsive cool downs and self heals have to be looked at very closely. Another example is if I am playing a class that can provide a defensive cool down to a freindly palyer than that class has the potential to be overpowered.
I have been in situations were I know I played my class better than my opponent, doubled and tripled him in dps but lost cause of self heals. Have to go will finish post later.
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Comments
PvP in Ashes doesn't look like it is supposed to be focused on one-on-one fights. It's focus is going to be on group fights. More commonly, guild wars, caravan attacks.....more rarely, sieges.
So balance is not going to be as important as strategy and tactics. And in a battle, every role will be important and not measured in DPS/Heal
That said, I've seen how poorly-implemented healing abilities have skewed the balance negatively in past games... made worse when devs rush out balance changes without bothering to test them properly. Hopefully AoC will take a more incremental approach to balance change in order to avoid the balance disruptions that plague so many other games.
If you are setting up a group of three for PvP, you have 262,144 possible class combinations to pick from.
There is no way Intrepid can balance each of these combinations - let alone maintain balance when you factor in that with each of those class combinations, players have the ability to pick and chose what augments they utilize. We are now talking tens (or even hundreds) of millions of possible versions of just a 3 man PvP team.
Balancing this using a one by one method is clearly not possible, and shouldn't even be attempted.
Rather, the individual skills need to be balanced (and then the distribution of these skills balanced between the classes to maintain a form of class balance).
There absolutely will be cases where a combination of buffs on a specific class will seem OP - just as every other game has builds that seem OP.
In a game like WoW, they take away all the freedom (and fun) in order to dictate to players that this is what their class is. They have minimal interaction between classes specifically to avoid situations where players may seem OP due to buffs.
That isn't what Ashes is doing.
I don't want a game where the developers pigeon-hole every class and build in to a single space, simply to appease a small group of players notion of how balance should be achieved.
Look at group builds in Ashes in the way many MMO's have character builds. There may well be a build that is OP, but it will still have it's weaknesses, and there will be a counter to that build before long.
It is simply an extension of the rock/paper/scissors theme of balance that Intrepid are going for.
Balance is crucial.
In the real world there will be lots of mismatched fights. Ambushes. Meaningful PvP. Fighting in as a box with an audience is not meaningful.
There will be little reason for tanks to face off against each other while the healers heal, and the DPS try to take down the enemy tank. Everyone is a target in the real world. When your caravan lumbers down the road, the healers may be the first ones to die. The tank may be left standing there with lots of hp's and defence, but no ability to hurt......and get picked off by the pack.
And if the meaningful PvP is fun.....and how can sieges not be more fun then a cage match? With dozens if not a hundred people duking it out? Are people really going say cry out 'stop!' He does 4 dps more then me! The battle is rigged!
Napoleon said before the Battle of Bordino...The only art of war is to be stronger at a given place.
Life isn't fair...the trick is to make it unfair in your favour, and that will be meaningful PvP in game.
I actually think that over time, the typical archtypes people are used to will fail..A pure healer or pure tank will be useless in the wild fighting other people. Sure they will be very useful fighting in a raid against a mob too dumb to switch targets...but in the wild....it will be the hybrids that will win, and numbers with timing. Not because character 'x' can do more dps, or healing or whatever.
Isn't it almost always the case that some classes excell at some things, while others at other things. I personally believe that one of the biggest mistakes occur when it is strived to achieve perfect balance. Someone will always scream that something is "wrong" as they die to it frequently. That is more often than not their problem, and not a balancing issue. Keep the imbalence, and just make sure that everyone has some sort of weakness.. Healers for example is more often shut down by hard CC, whereas mages often are shut down by high burst and so on.
I personally hope for loads of interesting builds, some performing extremely great in certain types of PvP (group vs solo) while others being more lackluster but contributing in other ways.
PS, before you ask, I tend to never go for the most" OP " /flavor of the month type of thing. I personally actually like the underdog role, because of the pure joy of proving something difficult can work ^.^
This is kind of challenge is more evident in PvE content, and that's what I tend to focus on. However, I don't think it would be impossible to accomplish in the PvP sense either. But you're right, making each class as easy to play as the other in all content situations is not the way to go.
Some of my greatest memories in these games is accomplishing content with my character or participating in "too small of a group" than was either designed or believed to be possible. Sure, it might take longer, and might result in many deaths while figuring the situation out, but that victory in the end is the best tasting kind!
Intrepid have stated multiple times that they do not want players to freely change their Spec - they want player's choice to matter. And Healers ... based on what we've seen in PAX, Intrepid does not want the Healer to just solely heal
For example ... many PAX Testers stated that the Cleric was OP, more so than the Mage or Ranger. But things are likely to change.
In short, they've said in a few LiveStreams ... that the Cleric will not be managing HP throughout it's time playing - the Cleric will actually be more active
Lastly ... to be more specific , Steven did not say " Rock, Paper, Scissors " ...
Steven actually said ... " Rock, Paper , Scissors Column Style " so to put things in retrospect ...
... this is how i see it
Its very likely that this could be the case until further info is revealed ... and not literallly like the image ... but to as a Generalize/ Vague Representation
Swapping Secondary-Archetype ( https://youtu.be/G4-Sb3dN2hQ?t=37m44s )
Intrepid PAX version of the Cleric ( https://youtu.be/UYn9in9UrEs?t=32m52s )
The PAX Cleric, has likely changed when debuted at PAX West, but it does give you an idea of what they were going
It's one of the core concepts they are developing the game around.