Game Balance PVE vs PVP

This particular post is about having dynamic classes in PVE vs PVP.

Now lets say the summoner class can summon monsters to aid him or her in combat. Each one with different abilities buffs or debuffs.  And lets say that after completing a long quest line and and fulfilling many tasks for a certain faction that is in game they get to of those  half man half spiders monsters that we have seen in game for lets say a 30 seconds.  

Or if you are a playing a pally then afer a long questline and getting in good standing with an in game faction designed just for pallies you get to summon a defender (two handed sword that also gives defensive buffs plus great damage) for lets say 30 seconds.  

Or some other awseome ability that just really defines and sets apart them from other classes.

How is that going to work out in pvp.  Well in truth unless you nerf the abilities (which would make them lame but I guess still useful)  It does not work to well with pvp.  so it just better to tell people right from the start. 

That classes are going to have dynamic powerful abilities they just cannot be used for pvp purposes cause they are to powerful.  If you try to go the way with balancing abilities that are designed to fight world bosses and raid bosses with pvp just does not work out to well.   

Just to make a point healers are going to be designed for an eight man team but arenas are going to be 3 man group.  So it could be that if you have 2 very good healers on opposing team then neither team can kill each other cause healers are just healing to much or its take a long time for them run out of what ever resource they use to cast spells making for very long arenas.

So it is just better to have abilities perform differently to fit the situation.

One last point I would like to mention is.  Let say implosion has to be nerfed for pvp cause it is causing to much damage to other toons.  Well the guy that does not pvp could not care less about pvp or what goes on in arenas or battlegrounds.  All the sudden his or her implosion is doing a lot less damge and their toon feels a lot less powerful.

From what I know toons will only have like 8-12 or 8-16 abilities per class that will make it much easier to balance. But if you are going to have the same abilities and rules for pve and pvp it is going to like fitting circle inside a socket that is made for a square guess you could do it but it is just one big headache.


  • Ashes is not based around 1v1 duels as it is configured for party vs party combat instead. Some classes will be better at PvP, and some will be better at PvE. The same goes for 1v1 balancing, for example, a mage may beat a tank easily but my suffer vs a ranger or a bard, that's the joy of having 64 classes and 9ish (tulnar) races not everything is going to be balanced, and I like that as it makes the world seem alive. If I wanted a perfectly balanced game I would play a single player game instead.
  • I like your thinking nagash.  It has already been stated by Steven that each class will have a corresponding "bane" class.  For example, a cleric many fall easily to a rogue but a cleric has no problem killing a bard. 
  • I'm not sure people are going to be able to get over the whole "not balanced for 1v1" thing. 

    Which they need to, because if they don't like 75% of feedback is going to be irrelevant   
  • Well until we actually test it there is not much we can say about combat, just like Nagash said if I want to play a game where everything is tip-top balanced then I would be going for single player games (not like some of those cant be buggy and frustrating <3 )
  • I sure hope its not balanced for 1v1. Class differentials only come down to aesthetics at that point. I wan't imbalance ala EQ1 where classes are defined in their roles and certain classes could solo and others could not. 
  • From the talking about skill progression, I hoping that you will be able to build a skill set best suited to your mix of PVE or PVP and that each class will have viable skill builds for each style
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    I will just blame @DemetriSlavic for everything anyway ;)
  • Jahlon said:
    I'm not sure people are going to be able to get over the whole "not balanced for 1v1" thing. 

    Which they need to, because if they don't like 75% of feedback is going to be irrelevant   
    No feedback is irrelevant.  If people aren’t happy even if they’re “wrong” in not being happy, that’s important to know.  Many failed games would have been great if those dumb customers could figure out that they were supposed to be enjoying the system instead of incorrectly disliking the system.
  • Davlos said:
    I will just blame @DemetriSlavic for everything anyway ;)
    <.< >.> Multiple games now?!?
  • Davlos said:
    I will just blame @DemetriSlavic for everything anyway ;)
    <.< >.> Multiple games now?!?
    You can never escape it mwahahaha
  • Just have the classes, i.e. Summoner have the same pets in PvE and PvP.  AoC is already going to have a tough enough time trying to "balance" classes as is, why introduce something different with PvP.  I say "balance" with quotes because it will means something totally different for each person and that mostly is based on play style.
  • Not everyone likes to group. They have to adjust mechanics for people wanting to roam free and solo around in pvp.

    Also, Not all groups are enjoyable, people can be nasty (and i'm sure we will have those types). We all know how online games are hubs for trolling, irritating people :smile:

    Other groups have objectives, goals you may not want to follow.
    Some groups will have gear/parsing, etc. requirements you don't meet.
    Some groups will be looking for a certain class only to join them.
    Some groups are Only guild members.
    Some groups will boot you cuz some friends just came online
    Some people like to group with friends only, and if they are offline......
    And of course there's always groups where drama pops in......
    And we'll have those moments when we just "don't feel like" grouping :smile:

    All I'm saying is people should be able to enter pvp whether grouped or not, and if they want to 1v1 so be it. I'm not even gonna bring up if there's gonna be a queue for group to form up, and then they boot you right after you joined LOL waste of time.

    I hope they will come up with a good system for it, otherwise pvp won't work well generally speaking.
  • Other than arena and specific ladder pvp there won't be "queing" for groups. Groups are meant to be player formed and not some LFG mechanic. There are indeed many ways for someone to participate in pvp as a solo player during group events. The caravan system is just one such example. When entering the "bubble" that surrounds the caravan you will be prompted to respond Attack, Defend, or Ignore. That puts you on the correct side for flagging mechanics, no grouping needed.
  • "Bane" classes are an interesting concept, so long as the advantage one class has over another is not overwhelming. I see no benefit to having a cleric (for example) face a hopeless situation every time a hostile rogue comes at him. Sure, give the rogue tools that make it moderately easier for the rogue to come out the victor, but don't make the outcome a sure thing from the very start.

    I sure hope its not balanced for 1v1. Class differentials only come down to aesthetics at that point.
    The chief difference between classes is their play style. A ranger and a fighter can be perfectly balanced but have polar opposite ways of dealing damage. Same goes with a summoner and a rogue: they could be perfectly balanced against each other and yet be completely different in the way they are played.

    You don't need a lack of balance in order to have class differentials, you simply need a creative development team that can create a wide variety of options for damage delivery.
  • What makes you feel bane classes are not equal and opposite, rather than one being guaranteed to be superior ?

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