Economic Superiority

ArchivedUser

The only thing that can kill a game faster then PVP-ers gone wild is gold farmers gone wild.  Generally we call them gold farmers or bots etc but every game has them. Once a games economy is dominated by a group the game pretty much blows or you have to go spend real money to get fake money to compete. Now I hate problems with out solutions. I think I see two major problems that could be self resolving.

1.  bored pvp-ers
2.  gold farmers.

 What if a pvp-er could raid the vault of a gold farmer ? The gold farmer could hire protection ( costing some of that precious gold) or get sacked by a group of pvpers. Sounds great on paper but what if say the “Thieves guild” got to keep tabs on who has how much cash and hire spies to find out where.  That could be a system to get rid of one problem and keep the other one out of our hair at the same time ?

The only way this would work is if at some point a character has to much gold to safely store. Then grieving could be minimized and gold farming would have to become decentralized all at the same time.

ArchivedUser

Personally I want a zero tolerance policy for botting. And aggressive GM's looking for it.

I was a GM on multiple different private WoW and L2 servers back in the day and spent days just hunting botters.

I also have botted in games where there is a point where it comes to "if you cant beat them join them" Silkroad online and WoW during Cataclysm are perfect examples of times when people just give up and join the herd.

The trick is to have a grind while not making things FEEL grindy. I know thats not exactly easy to develop, but I do have my hopes.

ArchivedUser

Having a subscription should cut down on this a lot.  It won’t eliminate it but if you have to pay a monthly fee it cuts down on their profits enough that many gold farmers would struggle to even break even.

ArchivedUser

Atama said:

Having a subscription should cut down on this a lot.  It won’t eliminate it but if you have to pay a monthly fee it cuts down on their profits enough that many gold farmers would struggle to even break even.

Great point, couldn't agree less. Yh I doubt gold farmers will be as much of an issue you make it out to be considering all the systems they already have in place for them.

ArchivedUser

 @azrael007 There was a time when almost all games were sub only and gold farming was a problem in those days as well.

ArchivedUser

Kadin said:

 @azrael007 There was a time when almost all games were sub only and gold farming was a problem in those days as well.

Yes, but now with the plethora of f2p games, advances in tracking tech to catch goldsellers/botters, and other things have caused them to look at anything with a sub as not being worth the risk that they may lose their work and still be on the hook for $15. Will some try? Sure. But a couple public beheadings should send the message loud and clear.

ArchivedUser

Just have a banned for life policy if you are caught buying from them or a loss of all gear and stored items.  The gold farmers will eventually go away from lack of business.  This would require lots of GMs to enforce and that falls upon the devs and those that volunteer to be a GM.  Will there be a perfect solution....never.

ArchivedUser

A few things will/would help with the botting situation..

• No 'assisting' or 'assist through target' system. Your target is your own thru Action Aiming or your own Tab Target only..
• No auto following. In groups, out of groups, or otherwise.
• No Macroing at all; no slash commands that have anything to do with skills or abilities..
  

Will not stop botting but would slow it down or make life difficult.

Not to be confused with Boxing. Though similar, it's just one player playing two or more characters at once. Nothing is automated. With action combat and open world pvp, this will be difficult enough for those that wish to play this way (on top of the anti botting listed above).

ArchivedUser

Complete zero tolerance for cheaters using third party software that is rampant in other mmos.. All new mmos say they are building something into the core engine to catch them.. but there they are warping around.. ect.. ect..ect.. Ohh I got 99 head shots in a row.. I'm so l33t.. pft.. yeah turn off your aim bot and show me how l33t you are..

ArchivedUser

This was the first hurdle of the game before much anything else was considered.

So I wouldnt threat too much.

I would like a lootable flag on convicted gold sellers though.

Let the thieves guild have some fun with them, before they are kicked.

They need humiliation so we can taste how salty their tears can be

ArchivedUser

Rune_Relic said:

Let the thieves guild have some fun with them, before they are kicked.

They need humiliation so we can taste how salty their tears can be

Feel free to keep those salty tears to yourself  don't want anything that comes from a man and tastes salty in my mouth  

ArchivedUser

EnderOfSouls said:

don't want anything that comes from a man and tastes salty in my mouth  

o.0

ArchivedUser

If gift giving and item selling are monitored closely there shouldn't be a market for gold sellers, especially since it's not P2W.

I guess you could over price something for the gold sellers to buy from you to collect more gold from them, but you would have to know they were gold sellers to try and squeeze more out of them. In which case we should all be reporting them.

They can't offer you things from the store for rl currency because those things can not (as of now) be traded or sold to other players.

I don't know if there is a large enough player pool in this particular community to make having a gold farm-bot at 15$/month worth it. If however they do show up, ban for life would be the ideal punishment for me.

ArchivedUser

Wish you could MAC ban them . . .

ArchivedUser

whitedude31 said:

Wish you could MAC ban them . . .

That would be awesome, sadly Layer 2 (datalink) stuff isn’t routable so you can’t filter things over the Internet using a MAC.  It sure would make life easier if you could.

Also, some modern routers let you change the MAC address (mine does) so that isn’t as foolproof as it used to be.

ArchivedUser

Atama said:

whitedude31 said:

Wish you could MAC ban them . . .

That would be awesome, sadly Layer 2 (datalink) stuff isn’t routable so you can’t filter things over the Internet using a MAC.  It sure would make life easier if you could.

Also, some modern routers let you change the MAC address (mine does) so that isn’t as foolproof as it used to be.

While true you can ban regions(most companies ban china's iprange wholesale), and while VPN's do of course exist(I use them extensively), you can ban the most common ones.

Account ban, HWID ban, and IP ban.

Can you get around it all..yeah of course...but for the average botter who just wants to be lazy, its enough.

There is almost no way to truly ban the big people(who bot smartly) other than having active GM's.

ArchivedUser

@Kadin
Bots, GoldSellers, RMT

• https://youtu.be/f8SpiG0Ulbg?t=11m43s
• https://youtu.be/EAG9mS0U4NQ?t=38m39s
• https://youtu.be/mD1q3aTRcPY?t=47m46s

" What if a pvp-er could raid the vault of a gold farmer ? "  yes ... 
but no Gold Farmers though

• https://youtu.be/G4-Sb3dN2hQ?t=42m48s
  
• https://youtu.be/_fPIP8uu6Pc?t=1h3m23s
  
• https://youtu.be/LUJugtqTBxw?t=28m4s
  

Only known info of Thieves Guild

• https://youtu.be/kJbyxRdB6dE?t=38m30s

ArchivedUser

A few factors to the how bot issues is as Steven has said it dosen't make sense for a wolf to have gold on it. So the grinding aspects of it are taken out unlike some other games where you can set a bot to kill mobs for loot.

I am sure when you factor in some of the crafting mechanics into the game and what will be involved to make money the time and effort would be more work than its worth to do in mass.Coupled with P2P this really looses the value

ArchivedUser

Lex1961 said:

Just have a banned for life policy if you are caught buying from them or a loss of all gear and stored items.  The gold farmers will eventually go away from lack of business.  This would require lots of GMs to enforce and that falls upon the devs and those that volunteer to be a GM.  Will there be a perfect solution....never.

 No, banned for life isn't good enough to be honest. I know they already have a bunch of systems in place but just in case, how about doubling the subscription fee for anyone caught and anyone involved in transactions. Caught a second time? have fun paying 60 a month to play. Caught three times? oh man good luck with that 120 a month.

ArchivedUser

RealDickMove said:

Atama said:

whitedude31 said:

Wish you could MAC ban them . . .

That would be awesome, sadly Layer 2 (datalink) stuff isn’t routable so you can’t filter things over the Internet using a MAC.  It sure would make life easier if you could.

Also, some modern routers let you change the MAC address (mine does) so that isn’t as foolproof as it used to be.

While true you can ban regions(most companies ban china's iprange wholesale), and while VPN's do of course exist(I use them extensively), you can ban the most common ones.

Account ban, HWID ban, and IP ban.

Can you get around it all..yeah of course...but for the average botter who just wants to be lazy, its enough.

There is almost no way to truly ban the big people(who bot smartly) other than having active GM's.

You seem to know a lot don't you... Hmmm..... 🤨😂

ArchivedUser

RealDickMove said:

Atama said:

whitedude31 said:

Wish you could MAC ban them . . .

That would be awesome, sadly Layer 2 (datalink) stuff isn’t routable so you can’t filter things over the Internet using a MAC.  It sure would make life easier if you could.

Also, some modern routers let you change the MAC address (mine does) so that isn’t as foolproof as it used to be.

While true you can ban regions(most companies ban china's iprange wholesale), and while VPN's do of course exist(I use them extensively), you can ban the most common ones.

Account ban, HWID ban, and IP ban.

Can you get around it all..yeah of course...but for the average botter who just wants to be lazy, its enough.

There is almost no way to truly ban the big people(who bot smartly) other than having active GM's.

I was actually talking about banning the mac address built into your device

ArchivedUser

whitedude31 said:

RealDickMove said:

Atama said:

whitedude31 said:

Wish you could MAC ban them . . .

That would be awesome, sadly Layer 2 (datalink) stuff isn’t routable so you can’t filter things over the Internet using a MAC.  It sure would make life easier if you could.

Also, some modern routers let you change the MAC address (mine does) so that isn’t as foolproof as it used to be.

While true you can ban regions(most companies ban china's iprange wholesale), and while VPN's do of course exist(I use them extensively), you can ban the most common ones.

Account ban, HWID ban, and IP ban.

Can you get around it all..yeah of course...but for the average botter who just wants to be lazy, its enough.

There is almost no way to truly ban the big people(who bot smartly) other than having active GM's.

I was actually talking about banning the mac address built into your device

As I said before that’s impossible.  A MAC address is a Layer 2 component so you can’t see it over the Internet.  If the game server was on the same LAN they could do it but that’s not gonna happen...