Concept ~ Unlockable, Toolbar size limited, Counter skills.

ArchivedUser

This is a generalised concept of how, an interrupt type combat system, could be incorporated in to AoC, to enable meaningful tactical combat.

In many games, two players can just sit and spam skill macros at each other and who ever has the best or most OP rotation wins (lowest TTK). In many games, two players need to react to each other, after the fact, during travel time, to avoid effects. In some games, two players have to read the body language (stance) of the opponent and counter there game play or face full damage. The concept within is designed to enable the last of these option within AoC.

It is stated that ashes will have toolbars with a limit on loadable usable skills whilst in combat. You will have an array to choose from I assume, but which you choose will define your particular twist on playstyle. Its this enforced variety through extreme rationing of the full skill set, that enables build diversity. The concept within expands on this principle to raise it to the next level.

4x Autonomous Inter-active skill loadable toolbars (number of skills debatable):

•  Armour should offer.. +regen rates vs +armour rating
•  Weapons should offer... +degen rates vs +penetration rating
•  There should be a 1:1 counter skill mapping for every active skill that must be trained for and progressed.
•  Counter skills should be class, race, weapon and armour specific.
•  Every active skill needs a warmup or get-in-stance phase, as a 'during the fact' feedback system.
•  Every warmup phase should be a window of opportunity, that scales in size, depending on magnitude of effect.
•  Over committing on magnitude should be punished, if your opponent is not first compromised in some way, by disabling their counter ability.
•  The magnitude of the counter effect should be skill/progress controlled to reflect anything from 0-100% of that intended.
•  The method of reflection should be modifiable to suit playstyles.
•  Active skill animations should change depending on success or failure of a counter.
• Failed counter attempts should increase effect by reflect magnitude, to ensure risk vs reward.
  

Middle button (or left+right mouse) + up key

•  Auto Rush to enemy before counter effect or
•  Auto Push enemy away after counter effect
•  Contains 1:1 counters to every class specific 'Flee/Pull' skills in game. BUT...
•  You can only hold X amount of 'Flee/Pull' counters in this toolbar.
•  You can not counter every build. You must choose which.

Middle button (or left+right mouse) + right key

•  Right side step & ...Contains 1:1 counters to every class specific 'Degen/Regen' skills in game. BUT...
•  You can only hold X amount of 'Degen/Regen' counters in this toolbar.
•  You can not counter every build. You must choose which.

Middle button (or left+right mouse) + down key

•  Auto Flee from enemy after counter effect or
•  Auto Pull enemy to before counter effect
•  Contains 1:1 counters to every class specific 'Rush/Push' skills in game. BUT...
•  You can only hold X amount of 'Rush/Push' counters in this toolbar.
•  You can not counter every build. You must choose which.

Middle button (or left+right mouse) + left key

•  Left side step & ...Contains 1:1 counters to every class specific 'Degen/Regen' skills in game. BUT...
•  You can only hold X amount of 'Degen/Regen' counters in this toolbar.
•  You can not counter every build. You must choose which.

TL;DR
No one knows which, out of the plethora of counter skills available, each player will have loaded.
No one can therefore predict, the outcome of any battle.
Those who capitalise on their unique counter abilities in the heat of battle, will gain advantage.
All counter skill training and progress is just as intensive as that of active skills; adding content, choice and intrigue.
Vertical progression imprisoned within a horizontal progression system, is enhanced by skill based combat through situational awareness.

ArchivedUser

Rune_Relic said:

In many games, two players need to react to each other, ..., to avoid effects.
In some games, two players have to read the body language (stance) of the opponent and counter there game play or face full damage. 

These two are the same. One player does something and the other player does something in response. This is what a reaction is.

ArchivedUser

@Seaber Actually there is a difference. Perhaps subtle though.

In melee, for the most part, you may dodge or block or iframe in some way to avoid or mitigate damage. Not much chance to reflect it though or turn that incoming damage back on the attacker or absorb their self heal as part of 'direct' active gameplay (especially with fast attacks). There is in effect little in the way of true counter play that requires live strategic thought other than get out the way, cc them or suck up some damage. Some may offer armour skills and special skills that do such stuff for you automagically, but player agency for direct 'mandatory' counter play is rare. Hit, block or interrupt is staple fayre, plus specialist skill buttons. These things happen 'after the action is taken' (travel time) or 'during the swing'.

Before an action is taken, there should be a stance animation that prepares you for an attack. Its this preliminary motion that is in the twilight gap before an attack. Responding at this time enables you to counter the attack because you have foreseen it 'before it occurs'. Akin to interrupting a channel skill.

Taking for honour as an example of counter play with the right idea but with a bad UI. You have a preemptive warning triangle of three lines that will highlight for left, right or high attack. Counter in that direction before the attack stance becomes an attack and you successfully counter. If you fail you get the full force of the blow. Alas, using the mouse camera for directional counters isnt natural for those people that have always used a mouse for camera only and keys for direction. Many people have asked for comboing two keys for this very reason.

So you could have the left mouse + direction for 4 kinds of attack, right mouse + direction for 4 kinds of movement, right/left mouse + direction, middle mouse + direction. 16 feasible logical combat controls, right at your fingertips without requiring finger gymnastics, for a rich and diverse combat system. No hunting for that special button for that one off situational counter. The mouse camera remains a mouse camera.

This to me is what separates meaningful combat from the typical spamfest. Being forced to observe your opponent and reacting to them to gain an advantage. Especially if your success in doing so requires deep knowledge of your opponents abilities to counter them. Even more so if you have to learn 100s of counters, knowing which you can apply and when. ie Skill.

ArchivedUser

I know the the game is in alpha. But i really hope they change the interface. Currently it looks like something from a browser games. Or cheap/p2w games. Or the older games

ArchivedUser

insomnia said:

I know the the game is in alpha. But i really hope they change the interface. Currently it looks like something from a browser games. Or cheap/p2w games. Or the older games

It all back end responsiveness and stability testing at the moment. Anything else is on a 'needed to be functional' for testing basis. I was quite impressed with what they offered the testers, considering the rudimentary requirements.

Considering the attention to detail and overt depth in some of the designs and artwork, I am not particularly worried about the UI cosmetics at the moment. I would like them to get a well designed mouse/keyboard system thrashed out though. Something that allows massive diversity in an ultimately simplistic, convenient and comfortable way.

The UI, auido and graphics is our sensory interface. The Motor nerve interface is just as critical.