Node Progression By Guilds or Citizens

First I'd like to say I'm not the best at coming up with creative titles but I hope my title captures what I am trying to address.

I have been reading a lot of threads of people discussing node progress, picking nodes, talking about starting locations for guilds and such. It seems a fair amount of people are thinking the node will progress as the citizens work together (yes I do know how this system works)

However in my opinion each node will be run by a guild, or a group of smaller guilds that form a tight alliance. There are people who think they can just trek off into the woods and start working on building up a node with a group of random strangers but I dont think that will work at all. 

I look at a node as an asset, in every game I've played large assests are controlled by guilds (or any other mmo term). 

I dont think just anyone will be able to take a political position in a node, or buy any house that is available in a node. If you arent in a guild and living in a node that's fine, but dont expect to be able to have the ability to do "everything"

I'm not trying to sound harsh or anything like that as these are just my opinions but I thought it should be said as I haven't seen it mentioned in a good while. 

Anyways would love to hear what other people have to say about this jumbled mess of words I threw together on my lunch break. 

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    I think the opposite. I don't like the idea of being forced into joining a guild to be able to make progress on a node. I would like to get a small team of random people and make a little village or community in the middle of nowhere. Then, with time, maybe have guilds make it easier to do further advancements when the node has grown quite a bit, but I don't want basic node progression to be impossible without guilds.
  • Large guilds/alliances will control the bigger cities and metros. The number of metros possible on a server is limited, so it's going to first come first serve. I really doubt a rag --tag group of solo players can manage a node much beyond Settlement or Village level. 


  • Karthos said:
    Large guilds/alliances will control the bigger cities and metros. The number of metros possible on a server is limited, so it's going to first come first serve. I really doubt a rag --tag group of solo players can manage a node much beyond Settlement or Village level. 


    I have to agree. You would need a large guild just to make sure the node stands after level 3
  • I agree with all of you. I guess it's going to come down to how many nodes are on the server.

    I would love for it to be the case that you dont need to be in a guild to really feel part of a node but unless there are 100s of nodes I don't see that happening.
  • I agree with all of you. I guess it's going to come down to how many nodes are on the server.

    I would love for it to be the case that you dont need to be in a guild to really feel part of a node but unless there are 100s of nodes I don't see that happening.
    Well to clarify, you don't need to be IN a guild to live in a Node and call it home. You can still become a citizen of a Node and not be part of the guild that runs it. 

    However to actually shape and build the node, you likely will need a guild.
  • From what I recall reading

    Divinity Node The leaders are chosen from rank in the church and you can go up on rank by questing.

    Commerce Node: You buy the title, you don't need to be part of a big guild to make money, but it can help.

    Science node: Elections, so having a big guild definitely helps.

    War Node: the strongest fighter is the leader. So if you can't pvp well your guild can't help there.

    Personally unless I can find a guild pre-release that will 100% want to join a Divine Node then I'll find one in-game


  • As long as freeholds aren't too difficult to get approval for I don't think guilds will be able to run everything in a node. I guess it would depend on how many freeholds can be placed in a node.
  • Karthos said:
    I agree with all of you. I guess it's going to come down to how many nodes are on the server.

    I would love for it to be the case that you dont need to be in a guild to really feel part of a node but unless there are 100s of nodes I don't see that happening.
    Well to clarify, you don't need to be IN a guild to live in a Node and call it home. You can still become a citizen of a Node and not be part of the guild that runs it. 

    However to actually shape and build the node, you likely will need a guild.
    This is exactly what I was trying to say. Sorry if I wasn't clear. 

    I think if there were abundance of nodes if would make it easier to not be in a guild. However, map size and things like that come into play. A node isn't special if there are a billion.

     Greygoose said:
    From what I recall reading

    Divinity Node The leaders are chosen from rank in the church and you can go up on rank by questing.

    Commerce Node: You buy the title, you don't need to be part of a big guild to make money, but it can help.

    Science node: Elections, so having a big guild definitely helps.

    War Node: the strongest fighter is the leader. So if you can't pvp well your guild can't help there.

    Personally unless I can find a guild pre-release that will 100% want to join a Divine Node then I'll find one in-game


    This is some good info I didn't know about. The one I can see people controlling the easiest is the divine node. 

    Guilds can definitely make it very difficult to pvp and earn money in a area if they claim it as their turf. 

    Once again I'm not trashing guilds controlling nodes as Ill probably be a part of one that does it. I am just shedding some light and learning about this so other people are aware.
  • Well it was kind of a given that large guilds will control metros and nodes but the military node might be an exception since combat will be the way to get elected. That's not to say it will be an absolute thing :3
  • Well, they are thinking about it at least and there may be mechanics in place to discourage that. If people turn it into something that Steven didn't envision they can always adjust metrics.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    1. No guild has control over a nodes citizens.
    2. Therefore no guild can ever have full control over a node.

    You are of course welcome to try ;)
    Personally I see guilds as no different to gangs/factions or political parties in any society. They will come in different sizes, but they will always be but a fraction of that society.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Double Post

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    I don't think nodes will necessarily be run by guilds, rather they will be run by small communities (small as in sub-sets of the umbrella Ashes community) - many of which will also be what we currently think of as guilds.

    For instance, I'm part of the DOP Crew Discord community which is led by the lead designers of Revival. But, we don't have strict rules like guilds. We just play a variety of different games together because we enjoy hanging out with each other.
    Sure, we are able to coordinate goals.

    For Neverwinter Online, our community of 200+ rallied around a fairly popular streamer. Some of us did end up creating an in-game guild in order to take advantage of the guild perks, but it mostly just allowed us to share excess loot in the guild bank.
    And gave us access to guild chat - which we used sometimes but still mostly communicated via twitch chat.

    Really the same with the communities in Landmark.
    Quite a lot of large communities were comprised of the followers of a popular twitch streamer rather than an actual guild.

    And I expect a lot of that to continue into Ashes.
    Some streamers also lead guilds, too, of course.
    But, there are several ways for community members to coordinate effectively without belonging to a guild.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Hmmn. There will be hundreds of Nodes, not billions.
    Many nodes will be stuck at Stage 1 and Stage 2 - which won't necessarily need to be micro-managed by a guild.

    The whole point of the game is that each Node can be significantly different depending on the specifics of who is governing the Node.
    Especially once we reach the Village Stage.
    We don't have to be in a guild. We just have to be able to form large enough communities and alliances to be able to defend and capture or recapture the nodes we desire.
    The citizens of a village that has been de-leveled won't have to form a guild in order to rally together to recapture their lost Node or lay siege to a different Node. They'll just need a medium that allows them to coordinate - and these days we have many forms of social media to facilitate that.

    But, what makes a Node special are the specifics of the region, the Node Type, the race that dominates the Node and the specific buildings the citizens and leaders choose to build.
  • Dygz said:
    I don't think nodes will necessarily be run by guilds, rather they will be run by small communities (small as in sub-sets of the umbrella Ashes community) - many of which will also be what we currently think of as guilds.

    For instance, I'm part of the DOP Crew Discord community which is led by the lead designers of Revival. But, we don't have strict rules like guilds. We just play a variety of different games together because we enjoy hanging out with each other.
    Sure, we are able to coordinate goals.

    For Neverwinter Online, our community of 200+ rallied around a fairly popular streamer. Some of us did end up creating an in-game guild in order to take advantage of the guild perks, but it mostly just allowed us to share excess loot in the guild bank.
    And gave us access to guild chat - which we used sometimes but still mostly communicated via twitch chat.

    Really the same with the communities in Landmark.
    Quite a lot of large communities were comprised of the followers of a popular twitch streamer rather than an actual guild.

    And I expect a lot of that to continue into Ashes.
    Some streamers also lead guilds, too, of course.
    But, there are several ways for community members to coordinate effectively without belonging to a guild.

    I agree that you don't a guild to communicate and coordinate things but the way I look at it is a guild will have a much easier time "controlling" a node. I also think that almost every guild will want a node and that most likely mean there won't be enough to go around (which is fine). This being said even if a guild "controls" a node that doesn't spell doom for a solo player.

    I come from a lot of different MMOs but this node system reminds me of how eve online is. Now ashes is much sophisticated and there are different ways to control a node in ashes than a system in Eve but their are similarities.  Now if Steven is saying that guilds won't run nodes ill keep that in the back of my mind, but the majority almost always wins... 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Citizens and in-game guilds are going to be a very different thing in Ashes than the out-of-game guilds from previous games.

    I have no clue why you think a guild would have an easier time controlling a node than a large group of YouTube or Twitch streamer followers or a large Discord group.
    I'm sure every out-of-game guild will want multiple Nodes. That doesn't mean they will all be successful. 
    Most likely, there will be hundreds more people who aren't in out-of-game guilds who are willing to form in-game alliances (or even out of game alliances, temporarily) to rival and defeat the machinations of out-of-game guilds.

    I don't agree that solo player is an apt term for citizens of Nodes who don't join out-of-game guilds.
  • Dygz said:

    I have no clue why you think a guild would have an easier time controlling a node than a large group of YouTube or Twitch streamer followers or a large Discord group.
    I'm sure every out-of-game guild will want multiple Nodes. That doesn't mean they will all be successful. 
    Most likely, there will be hundreds more people who aren't in out-of-game guilds who are willing to form in-game alliances (or even out of game alliances, temporarily) to rival and defeat the machinations of out-of-game guilds.

    I don't agree that solo player is an apt term for citizens of Nodes who don't join out-of-game guilds.
    I wasn't clear and I apologize, but when I say guild I mean any group of players. A group of twitch followers aren't necessarily  in a guild but they are a group of people with a common interest that have communication and a chain of command. 

    However I still stand by with what I said that the majority rules. I don't believe a solo player will have as "positive" as someone who is in the controlling or guild that manage the majority of the node. Obviously we don't know all the mechanics of the node system so we can't be for sure on anything but that's my two cents.
  • Gotcha. So, yes, villages and cities are going to require coordination.
    Especially if you want to maintain the racial influence of the Node.
    Players who want to develop a specific Node Type from Stage 0 to City or Metropolis are going to have to have to coordinate in order to find a viable to Node to focus on, progress and defend.
    And, the founders are likely to become leading members of the Node's government - in charge of deciding which buildings get built. Nodes above Stage 2 can't progress without players being in government roles that intrinsically include chain of command.
    Many citizens will very likely also join in-game guilds. 
    Many players will also join Social Organizations, like Thieves Guilds, Scholars Academies and Traders Companies. And Religious organizations.

    In MMORPGs, solo player refers to a person who does not mechanically join an adventurer party or raid. It's common for solo players to coordinate and socialize with other players who share common interests.
    And it's not uncommon for solo players to coordinate with other players on common quests without mechanically joining a party or raid.

    It's not possible to govern a City or Metropolis alone.
    Even in a Military Metropolis, where the head of the government is determined via combat prowess rather than by vote, it's not just one player governing the entire Node.
  • I still don't think guilds will fully run many nodes. If they try I think they would have to have policies in place that allowed for citizens not in their guild to progress and feel like their voice is heard, otherwise why not go to another node.

    It might be easier for a large guild to get a node off the ground first, but with guild caps (around 300) and the resources likely required for a level 4 or higher node they will need non-guild citizens for help. In the larger cities non-guild citizens will likely out number guildies (or at least guild members of the "controlling party").

    I think some guilds will try and have great success early, but I think their steam will run out by node rank 4.

    I don't think a group of strangers stand a better chance, but I don't think it would be so much of a disadvantage that it would be noticeable. All content explored in a nodes ZOI helps level it, not just organized content.
  • Guilds will try to run nodes, but if you they don't have alliances, if they don't take smaller guilds under their wing, they will find they just don't have the manpower to keep things running smoothly.

    Even a full 1200 person alliance is going to be hard pressed to run a node AND have time to do other things.   If you can't make a node a place that is safe to come to trade, make money, etc you will find that you are doing it all on your own.




  • Jahlon said:
    Guilds will try to run nodes, but if you they don't have alliances, if they don't take smaller guilds under their wing, they will find they just don't have the manpower to keep things running smoothly.

    Even a full 1200 person alliance is going to be hard pressed to run a node AND have time to do other things.   If you can't make a node a place that is safe to come to trade, make money, etc you will find that you are doing it all on your own.




    I mean I know we know very little about nodes overall but if 1200 people have a hard time running a node, I think that may be the wrong direction. Yes you have to keep it challenging overall but 1200 people in one area is a ton in any mmo. 

    While I think getting a node to where you want will be difficult once you have what you want I believe the hardest thing will be keeping it from other groups of players. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    It is a beautiful thing the node system. So much potential, completely dependent upon collaboration on a dynamic basis. So much intrigue, because nobody really knows the true agenda of any individual or group....and by extension the whole node. Every day will rise an eye brow with moments of awe and WTF.

    A world of Chaos, with dreamers trying to create order out of that chaos.
    :tongue:
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