PvP game balance vs class design

Now this post is about pvp changes vs the artistic value of a class which is kind of vague but will try try to clarify.  This is sort of a repost but from a slightly different point of view.

There is a game called Tekken 5 and in that game they did a tribute to Bruce Lee character name   Marshall  Law.  Now in my opinion and others agree that that rendition of Bruce Lee really  captures  look and feel of bruce they included the following abilities one inch punch a kick flip and a very fast punch combo.    But what if the devs decide that well the one inch punch is to op and that the back flip kick  is also to op and not alowed in game plus they have to slow the character Marshall Law down cause he is to fast.  Well if they were to do that to ensure that it is fair and it is fun then well that character would no longer be a tribute to Bruce but a dis grace.

But how does that relate to Ashes of Creation.  Well  in MMORPGs dev can also make amazing classes that for instance capture the feel and look of a ranger or mage or barbarian.
For example a gladiator and barbarion and knight and pally and death night  all have different themes but are all melee classes.

So Ashes of creation could make a  great mage but then later on because of PvP changes or PvE but most chnages are for PvP then the class basically gets ruined. 

Lets say Ashes of Creation makes a geat Mage that has a fun factor of 10.  Well if a class is fun to play then it you could be grinding away to for a dropp but still have fun cause class is fun to play.  You are most likely to ahve fun playing Ashes of Creation doing just about anything because the class is so well made. 

 But just as a real live exmaple let us take a look at one ability that a mage has called implosion.  Now since Ashes of creation has low number abilities (which is fine) I think each ability should just do more for example.

 1) Have option to press down button for a longer cast time than one second eliminating the need for small medium and large fireball spells.

2) If you target a tank and cast implosion i creates a fireshield around him

3) if you target a melee dps weapon gets addition fire damage over time.

4) taking into account that it will be a hybrid targeting system implosion could be used to target the sky and cast flare

5) When implosion crits 5 percent chance to summon some type fire elemental dictated by a table that could summon a great pheonix to help for 20 seconds if you are really lucky

6) if you target the ground near opponents feet then a knock back is attempted

7) if yoou double tap it before the standard  second cast then it becoms an area of effect.

8)That actuall animation is slightly different when it crits.

9)plus whatever cooler things that the cumminity can come up with.
 
!0) Like if a rangr is targeted then a fire shield also surrounds which catches arrows on fire when he shoots them for little additional damage.

Well it could be said that a mage is a dps class not a support class so should not be able to help tanks, melle dps and rangers that is points 2, 3, and 10 gone.

Well it could also be said that the crit rng allowing for the summoning of fire elementals sometimes turns the tide of battles in arenas so they just end up winning cause of proc so point 5 is gone. 

Well it could be said that this ability is just to utile or to useful that certains thins like flare and knock back  are already covered by other classes so in a way making not so special so  4 and 6 would be gone.....think I said enough.

What you would end up with is a "balanced" ability but with so much of the fun taken out of it is no longer fun to use.  Well a class can be the same way a dev could make changes that basically kind of ruin a class.  It is possible to change a nearly perfect class and just make a good class because of game balance.

I do not have a solution to this one  but you have to take in consideration the fun factor when making pvp and pve game balance changes.  By the way the the reasons I have stated to make changes (Well it could be said...) are actually real world reasons that devs have stated to revamp classes not always for the better though.




Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Yeah. You are looking at balancing in a negative way. You are thinking that 1 class was from the outset made superior to others so had to be nerfed. Mainly because the Class was created in a vacuum without considering the rest.

    The right way to balance 8 classes would be to create 8 equally diverse skills that counter each other perfectly...then apply them to each class as a fraction of the whole. Then no class gets nerfed because they were built as a unit/system from the outset.

    I have seen many games where a whole host of cool abilities for all kinds of classes was created.....without the slightest consideration of mutual impact. They let class design lead system design ...instead of the system design lead the class design
  • Here is why I hate the mmorpgsof the last 10 years with a handful of classes and why I love endless open world mmorpgs with a big variety of classes.

    Mmorpgs these days have end game and meta. Instances and Battlegrounds.

    In an open world mmorpg every class brings something to the table even if they are not the most victorious class when it comes to beating opponents.

    As long as people feel valided by their classes identity they wont care to be No.1

    Some people (rogues, nukers) just wanna win. So they pick selfish classes (and I love killing them.

  • Now since Ashes of creation has low number abilities
    "The number of skills on the action bar will be contained (fewer than 30).[2]"

    While that doesn't mean we will get something extremely low like 15, it also doesn't mean we won't. We don't currently know how many we will get.
    Well it could also be said that the crit rng allowing for the summoning of fire elementals sometimes turns the tide of battles in arenas so they just end up winning cause of proc so point 5 is gone. 
    RNG in combat is not an inherently bad thing. In fact, in many cases it's a good thing.


    As for your whole idea, it just seems to be a less clear way (to users and spectators) of adding more skills.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    The right way to balance 8 classes would be to create 8 equally diverse skills that counter each other perfectly...then apply them to each class as a fraction of the whole. Then no class gets nerfed because they were built as a unit/system from the outset.

    A multiplayer game is balanced if a reasonably large number of options available to the player are viable. 
    The right way to balance is to make every skill fun to use and fun to have used against you while keeping them all similar in mathematical power.


    I have seen many games where a whole host of cool abilities for all kinds of classes was created.....without the slightest consideration of mutual impact. They let class design lead system design ...instead of the system design lead the class design
    Maybe what you say is the case but maybe you didn't understand the system well enough.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    double post :(
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