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Crafting: Resource node spawns

I couldn't find this info so my apologies if it already exists but I was wondering if there will be node/biome specific resource spawning tables within the game. Will our locally isolated economies be sufficiently far enough for some resources to truly be rare in one part of the world? I think it would be cool to harvest a large amount of some biome specific resource like "black ice" or something and if you put the effort and take the risk to transport it over several nodes to a desert part of the world that it would sell for a high price due to how far it is for anyone who would want to gather it themselves (while it would be much cheaper back where you collected it).

I do recall information about crafting not being recipe based meaning that the lack of any single resource should not lock you out of crafting any particular item but perhaps for example the black ice would allow for crafting armor with "fire resist". So anybody without it would be able to still craft armor, but not necessarily with the "fire resist" modified. So it would be lower supply in a far off node, but not necessarily super high demand just because it is rare in that part of the world.
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Comments

  • Since there are bioms it would make sense that certain things are more/less common in those parts of the world. Wether it will be like that, I can't confirm/debunk.

    What I can say for sure is from previous dev mentions is that ressource nodes won't be identical on all servers, there will be a level of randomization to it as well as a finite amounts to it. Once it's gone it's gone, it might regrow over time, it might respawn somewhere else to give incentives for building/sustaining/fighting over/abandoning a town.
    Push and pull

    Your notion about component based crafting is correct, as far as I recall tho there won't be element specific resistances. I'm pretty confident they mentioned to want to steer away from those things, but in general different materials will offer different benefits in terms of statfocus and stats offered.

    So even if it won't be biome based, it will be "random" region based and ultimately come back to what you described really.
  • So even if it won't be biome based, it will be "random" region based and ultimately come back to what you described really.
    Well that kind of depends on the parameters of the randomization and also what a "resource node" actually means.

    If the randomization occurs too frequently, or if too many different resource-nodes could exist in a small area you could have ~all resource-nodes pop up in all zone-nodes if there isn't biome specificity (unlikely, I recognize).

    Also, I am not really sure what a "resource node" is going to look like. Will it be a single iron chunk to mine like in WoW? Will it be some invisible marker with a set radius around which iron chunks will spawn at some freq/distribution for the next week? Will it be a large number of iron chunks to mine within a small area that will not be replenished (e.g. in principle can all be mined in a few hours if you had the man power)?
    Any ideas?


  • I suggest you comb through the streams if you want to get nitpicky and find flaws in the devs plan. I gave you the general overview of what intrepid intends to do. If you want to doubt they can execute it as planned according to the core values of the game (like scarcity and others which I just assume you know) then I can't help you. So I won't repeat what I already said about the nature of ressources.

    Details of details on how it looks and what is classified as and how it all works will, if at all, come at a later date. They did say they won't reveal how it works to prevent predictions on where something spawns/is/where to look. How far that information ban reaches? Who knows? They want us to explore the world constantly to find stuff (core value).

    Developing cities also changes the surrounding available ressources. To what extend past mob changes and ressources tied to mobs (pelts/meat/claws, mob stuff) remains to be seen, but since it was said to even bring access to dungeons as well as changes to mobs in it... Maybe some metal deposits or what not are locked behind city development or overwrite existing metal deposits. who knows? The possibilities are there for sure, but that is all speculation.
  • Didn't mean to be nit picky, just curious :) ty for info.
  • Hello, NeuroGuy!

    Grisu said most of it already but, here's an excerpt from the Ashes Wiki on what we know about the topic:

    Gathering

    • There will be no sparkles on resource nodes. [29]
    • It will be challenging to find the resources, but they will spawn where you’d expect them to spawn. [30]
    • There will be higher quality resources, but where they spawn will not be permanent. [31]
    • Some gatherables will have a tiered progression into higher level crafting. For example if I'm gathering leaves of a flower, to craft a pigment that is going to be used in a tunic at level 1. I might need that to craft a greater pigment. It is going to be tiered progression so that materials have relevancy throughout the different ties of crafting. That is important from an economical standpoint, having layered demand. Those materials are still relevant when later items are crafted. [32]
    As you see, we're all basically clueless at the time^^
    Can't wait for more info on the topic! *looking innocently in Steven's direction*
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    Hey Hackerson, thanks! Yeah I read the wiki and essentially my post is asking what does "they will spawn where you’d expect them to spawn" mean and briefly describing what I hope it means. 

    Excited to find out more as well. If you have opinions on what you'd like it to mean, please share :).
  • NeuroGuy said:
    Hey Hackerson, thanks! Yeah I read the wiki and essentially my post is asking what does "they will spawn where you’d expect them to spawn" mean and briefly describing what I hope it means. 

    Excited to find out more as well. If you have opinions on what you'd like it to mean, please share :).
    My best assumption at this would be something similar to mining outcrops appearing in Rocky areas/mountains/caves.... Mushrooms would be underground/caves/forests... Wood in forests... Herbs scattered to specific bioms etc.

    That's just what I would expect but I could be totally wrong.
  • A fantastic concept I saw in only one MMO was variable resource quality (SWG - Star Wars Galaxies). You can see the kinds of resources I am talking about here (assuming outside links are OK):
    All resources had at least two if not half a dozen characteristics ranked from 1 to 1,000.
    There are a number of reasons this is fun. It means that if something special spawns everyone will be running to that area (planet in SWG) to find the once in a lifetime spawn, which can result in a bit of spirited competition.
    As all crafted materials decayed over time from use, and eventually got destroyed, it became strategic when to use your prized ultra-rare quality resources. Also, the best combos of mats could mean you made a +5 thingamajig where everyone else could only achieve +4. This makes high end crafters highly sought after.
    A world in which every piece of iron ore is exactly the same as every other piece of iron ore, at all times, is a bit dull by comparison.

  • NeuroGuy said:
    Hey Hackerson, thanks! Yeah I read the wiki and essentially my post is asking what does "they will spawn where you’d expect them to spawn" mean and briefly describing what I hope it means. 

    Excited to find out more as well. If you have opinions on what you'd like it to mean, please share :).
    Ores by mountains, timber by trees, fish from river, pelts from animals.
  • Ores by mountains, timber by trees, fish from river, pelts from animals.
    Haha thanks budd, but I meant like will all types of ores be available in all mountain regions? Any unique fish anywhere in the world?
  • @Aileric
    Yeah I've heard really good things about SWG resource system. I vaguely remember the devs saying that crafting may be similar to SWG in some interview but I could be making that up. But yeah I guess that's a great question, is it the case that "copper is copper is copper"? or will resources be different in stat or something.
  • NeuroGuy said:
    @Aileric
    Yeah I've heard really good things about SWG resource system. I vaguely remember the devs saying that crafting may be similar to SWG in some interview but I could be making that up. But yeah I guess that's a great question, is it the case that "copper is copper is copper"? or will resources be different in stat or something.
    I believe they said there would be different qualities of materials but I could be wrong.  If so I doubt it would be anything close to the depth of swg.


  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    I never played SWG but I would like different quality or purity of materials. Maybe some rare spawn nodes that give added stats to items made with them but mostly I want 50 crap copper ore makes 1 copper bar and 2 high quality copper ore make 1 copper bar.
  • @Althor
    Hmm I think I actually disagree, I don't think that would add much to the game. I think having spawns of resources with different stats would be very cool since fast travel isn't really a thing so some local economies may be injected with some high stat resources and gatherers nearby would reap a large yield. This would then incentivize caravans of high quantities of such high stat resources to be sent out to far off places where crafters would love to get their hand on some of it.

    Although I do see how some may dislike that system BECAUSE it is a "local" injection of high quality resources that is essentially RNG based.
  • NeuroGuy said:
    @Althor
    Hmm I think I actually disagree, I don't think that would add much to the game. I think having spawns of resources with different stats would be very cool since fast travel isn't really a thing so some local economies may be injected with some high stat resources and gatherers nearby would reap a large yield. This would then incentivize caravans of high quantities of such high stat resources to be sent out to far off places where crafters would love to get their hand on some of it.

    Although I do see how some may dislike that system BECAUSE it is a "local" injection of high quality resources that is essentially RNG based.
    I just don't want something too complicated and condiluted to the point where if I want a +pen sword I need iron farmed from area x, crafted in city y, and only with recipe z. 

    That seems particularly dreadful if caravan raids are frequently successful making sending out large shipments too risky compared to the reward.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    Althor said:
    I just don't want something too complicated and condiluted to the point where if I want a +pen sword I need iron farmed from area x, crafted in city y, and only with recipe z. 

    That seems particularly dreadful if caravan raids are frequently successful making sending out large shipments too risky compared to the reward.
    Oh absolutely agree, but it would be nice if the iron mined from area x in this spawn cycle that lasts 2 weeks gave you a little bit more +pen so if I want to max/min and dish out some dough I could buy the area x iron from that time or travel there myself. It would cause "gold rush" like resource harvesting if high quality resources spawn somewhere and caravans around such nodes will become PvP hot-spots.

    The degradable item mechanic should control the economic impact of the RNG of where a high quality resource spawns.

    I just like the idea because it adds regional flavor to resources. In one server iron from region x in one spawn cycle may be known to be the best for +pen swords and the trees in area y during some spawn cycle make the best +attack speed pommel. So a mastercraftsman could really invest in having shipments from across Vera of limited resources to really make some max/min item engaging the caravan system, stimulating distant local economies and injecting the market with high quality, highly desired items.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    Althor said:
    NeuroGuy said:
    @Althor
    Hmm I think I actually disagree, I don't think that would add much to the game. I think having spawns of resources with different stats would be very cool since fast travel isn't really a thing so some local economies may be injected with some high stat resources and gatherers nearby would reap a large yield. This would then incentivize caravans of high quantities of such high stat resources to be sent out to far off places where crafters would love to get their hand on some of it.

    Although I do see how some may dislike that system BECAUSE it is a "local" injection of high quality resources that is essentially RNG based.
    I just don't want something too complicated and condiluted to the point where if I want a +pen sword I need iron farmed from area x, crafted in city y, and only with recipe z. 

    That seems particularly dreadful if caravan raids are frequently successful making sending out large shipments too risky compared to the reward.
    Alternatively, you could make your way to one specialist to make the hilt, another the blade etc to craft tailor made items that are unique to you.

    The whole point of an RPG at the end of the day is to go on an epic adventure. And that epic adventure is your own progress.
  • Rune_Relic said: 
    Althor said:
    NeuroGuy said:
    @Althor
    Hmm I think I actually disagree, I don't think that would add much to the game. I think having spawns of resources with different stats would be very cool since fast travel isn't really a thing so some local economies may be injected with some high stat resources and gatherers nearby would reap a large yield. This would then incentivize caravans of high quantities of such high stat resources to be sent out to far off places where crafters would love to get their hand on some of it.

    Although I do see how some may dislike that system BECAUSE it is a "local" injection of high quality resources that is essentially RNG based.
    I just don't want something too complicated and condiluted to the point where if I want a +pen sword I need iron farmed from area x, crafted in city y, and only with recipe z. 

    That seems particularly dreadful if caravan raids are frequently successful making sending out large shipments too risky compared to the reward.
    Alternatively, you could make your way to one specialist to make the hilt, another the blade etc to craft tailor made items that are unique to you.

    The whole point of an RPG at the end of the day is to go on an epic adventure. And that epic adventure is your own progress.
    I play for relaxing and escaping the hassle of life. Spending hours of my limited play time to get a viable piece of gear sounds draining.

    If it amounts to just the high end players doing it to get BiS gear than I'm cool with it, but if I will get kicked from groups because my robe is made with cotton from area x instead of area y I'll be on to my next MMORPG pretty quick.

    On the other hand if the folks that are full time Crafters and gatherers do all the hassle of getting the best stuff to my local marketplace than I'm ok with doing it the more complicated way and paying a pinch extra. Actually thinking of it from that point of view I'm almost in favor of the rng materials.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    Althor said:

    On the other hand if the folks that are full time Crafters and gatherers do all the hassle of getting the best stuff to my local marketplace than I'm ok with doing it the more complicated way and paying a pinch extra. Actually thinking of it from that point of view I'm almost in favor of the rng materials.
    Yeah that's kind of my hope. Given the fact that the name of the crafter will be inscribed on the items they create, some crafters will really want to make high quality items. Such players will be very much incentivized to gather or drive demand of high stat resources wherever they are based. Creating BiS gear will justify charging more for items and make them desirable to recruit by powerful guilds.

    Most of the time gatherers decide between gathering a certain type of resource or try to gather to highest available stat one regardless of type. The spawning of exceptionally high stat resources will lead to a "gold rush" with a high influx of gatherers. Such gatherers will then want to ship out their goods to meet global demand, recruit mercenary protection for such caravans, pay for quality caravan gear etc which will boost the local economy of nearby nodes. This dynamic RNG movement of "gold rush" economic boon will also accompany hot spots of open world PvP.

    Ultimately, local occurrences of high stat resources will boost local economies while simultaneously increasing crafting depth all over Vera.
  • Gold rush scenarios driven by high quality resources will also attract PvP to protect and steal the goodies. At the end of the day, while not a PvPer by nature, I fully appreciate that this is the lifeblood of a sandbox  economy. If the same ores of the same quality are ubiquitous it diminishes emergent game play. I really don't see any downsides to having variable resource stats, other than a bit of extra programming.

    If you combined this with a skill-based crafting system as in Vanguard my mind would be blown. The only other crafting that was even more engaging was bioengineering pets in SWG pre-NGE, where the rules of crafting had to be discovered by trial and error. The skills of pet crafting were tightly held secrets.
  • So in Steven's visit to Krojack's stream today Steven explicitly answered: resources WILL have quality associated with them and the quality will impact the final product! I'll re-listen to the bit and post something a bit more on that here.
  • NeuroGuy said:
    So in Steven's visit to Krojack's stream today Steven explicitly answered: resources WILL have quality associated with them and the quality will impact the final product! I'll re-listen to the bit and post something a bit more on that here.
    Yeah so, some spawns may be higher quality AND based on your progression in the artisan tree, you may be able to proc the acquisition of higher quality resources while gathering. I'm very content with this.

    Now I still want to know if specific resource spawns will be limited to different regions/biomes of the world or different seasons.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    NeuroGuy said:
    NeuroGuy said:
    So in Steven's visit to Krojack's stream today Steven explicitly answered: resources WILL have quality associated with them and the quality will impact the final product! I'll re-listen to the bit and post something a bit more on that here.
    Yeah so, some spawns may be higher quality AND based on your progression in the artisan tree, you may be able to proc the acquisition of higher quality resources while gathering. I'm very content with this.

    Now I still want to know if specific resource spawns will be limited to different regions/biomes of the world or different seasons.
    Well we know the wildlife changes with day/night season cycles. So If the wildlife changes, I would be of the opinion the drops may also have subtle changes. There are also higher level adversaries the more off the beaten road you go. Should higher level adversaries not also drop higher quality resource ? Especially If higher tiered items are expected to be crafted from higher quality resources.

    And would higher rated adversaries wander around in environments that protect higher quality inanimate organic/inorganic assets of a specific kind/type ? Indeed, would they not in fact be created from the very stuff of the  locale that they are native to ?
  • Rune_Relic said:
    There are also higher level adversaries the more off the beaten road you go. Should higher level adversaries not also drop higher quality resource ? 
    So that's an interesting thought and I think it's based on the assumption that adversaries drop resources which I thought was not the case. With mining, fishing etc it's pretty clear you need to deal with inanimate objects but if for example earth elementals and aquatic monsters dropped ores and fish I wouldn't mind as long as it is NOT effective enough to compete with artisan gatherers. Overall I would say that I don't think mobs should drop resources at a high rate, investing in the gathering artisan tree should be the most effective way of acquiring resources (by far).

    Now we are told that killing a world boss may require master gatherers to harvest some parts (e.g. a master skinner to extract dragon hide or something) in which case I think it's totally cool because you need player cooperation between combat and artisan masters to achieve this goal (unlike regular old mobs where a pure combat player can gather resources if they just dropped them as loot).

    I still don't know how they would implement different "quality spawns" for skinning though... maybe that will be purely a % proc by skilled gatherers?
  • NeuroGuy said:
    I still don't know how they would implement different "quality spawns" for skinning though... maybe that will be purely a % proc by skilled gatherers?
    I'd say it should be higher quality hides from higher level mobs.
  • Arxeon said:
    NeuroGuy said:
    I still don't know how they would implement different "quality spawns" for skinning though... maybe that will be purely a % proc by skilled gatherers?
    I'd say it should be higher quality hides from higher level mobs.
    The issue with that is that there is no RNG spawn that way really. For iron for example, you may have a spawn that has high quality iron forcing the gatherers to first find and then travel to it. If all it takes is killing higher level mobs to get quality hide, it's not really comparable.
  • NeuroGuy said:
    Arxeon said:
    NeuroGuy said:
    I still don't know how they would implement different "quality spawns" for skinning though... maybe that will be purely a % proc by skilled gatherers?
    I'd say it should be higher quality hides from higher level mobs.
    The issue with that is that there is no RNG spawn that way really. For iron for example, you may have a spawn that has high quality iron forcing the gatherers to first find and then travel to it. If all it takes is killing higher level mobs to get quality hide, it's not really comparable.
    An "Ironhide" type beast could spawn in an area that gives tougher hides. Giving more armor. Same with other perks. Unicorns could give MP5 and HP5. Dragons could give fire resistance. Etc etc etc
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited November 2018
    @Althor
    Interesting idea, but that to me reads more like recipe differences. I do know that there will be recipes but not sure how specific they will be. Like if they'll say "some hide" or specify "dragon hide".

    I am told SWG had some crafting system that had vague recipes allowing for such things as substituting various resources for a particular recipe requirement leading to different item outcomes (in terms of its stats or something). Disclaimer: never played SWG, just going off of hearsay. 
  • Thanks @UnknownSystemError, the video also reminded me that resource "extractors" have been mentioned and I'm not sure how that will fit within the game (I don't really like the idea tbh, but I haven't really played any MMOs with them).
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