How will they determine PvE loot and what would you prefer?

ArchivedUser

I haven't seen a lot on PvE loot yet but I'm curious what everyones preference is. Most games I experience use a randomly generated decision of chance to determine who gets an item from, say...a chest. Where if a chest drops everyone in the group or raid who open it all vie for the chance at that one dropped item. Or would you prefer a system that employs a tier system where a chest drops and there's an item in the chest and each individual involved see's their own item. Only creating a tier system of much more common items, or materials. I figure with so much emphasis on crafting you won't just see rare items dropping but also materials that could be transformed into rare items. What is your preference to determine how items should be divided up?

ArchivedUser

They have already said that loot distribution will be set by group leader and can be voted on by the group members. NvG, FFA, Master Looter, and even a bidding system will be available for choices. There will NOT be individual loot drops. Almost all items in game are not BOE/BOP and may be freely sold or traded. There is a deconstruction system planned to salvage materials and recipes from loot. Crafting materials for rare items may drop from higher level mobs, but also more mundane items will drop from mobs. How kill credit for looting when not grouped has not been clarified yet with much qq'ing here from people that want first tag systems vs most damage systems and others. Will people who only tag a boss but do nothing else while a group kills it get credit and loot has also not been clarified. Whichever system they decide to go with, someone is going to be unhappy, but it will ultimately be what Steven decides fits his master plan.

ArchivedUser

So one is assuming its all going to be group play. I have never been keen on these systems. You always get some arsehat who tries to get as much loot as possible instead of sharing items or get pieces that other players need.

ArchivedUser

NightshadeRaven said:

So one is assuming its all going to be group play. I have never been keen on these systems. You always get some arsehat who tries to get as much loot as possible instead of sharing items or get pieces that other players need.

If you are playing with people you don't know and are worried about loot distribution or ninja looting, there is always Master Loot option. Remember, Ashes is not meant to be a random groupfinder sort of thing. People will have local reputations, you act like a dick over loot, your name will get known. Pull some dodgy shit, and people will ignore you, making your possible pool of other people to run content with even smaller. In my opinion it will help with the social aspect of the game. People are nicer to others when their future endeavors will be affected by being an "arsehat" Individual loot leads to people just tagging mobs (especially in an open world environment, which most content will be) and sitting back and letting others do the work. Player agency is one of their mantras, so giving choice and not limiting it is best.

 As an example of how individual loot fails. ESO has individual loot, but it can be traded to people within the dungeon or raid for up to two hours after boss kill. It is meant to be secret what you get as a drop, but of course someone has created an addon that tells you what everyone else got. (another reason Ashes should keep that API on lockdown as planned). The number of DMs I get now when someone sees something they want drop and the utter twats they turn into when I tell them no, they can't have that piece, is just bad. Most people will list in chat what they are willing to give to others after a run. Now if I get something and someone uses that addon to bug me about giving them something before I have offered, I will keep and vendor it before they ever get loot from me. In a game where anyone can wear any armor and use any weapon, nothing is BOE/BOP, communication about loot will be key before interactions. Those that don't speak up will be unhappy, but they will learn.

ArchivedUser

I would prefer individual loot system, as it saves a lot of disagreements and ninja looting.

ArchivedUser

T-Elf said:

I would prefer individual loot system, as it saves a lot of disagreements and ninja looting.

I agree, games are suppose to be fun. I hate dramas and the proposed looting system is that. Give everyone the same loot end of issue.

ArchivedUser

NightshadeRaven said:

T-Elf said:

I would prefer individual loot system, as it saves a lot of disagreements and ninja looting.

I agree, games are suppose to be fun. I hate dramas and the proposed looting system is that. Give everyone the same loot end of issue.

Woah... No... The only thing individual loot does is disconnect people... Congrats you ran with 4 strangers here's a chest piece bye now! Run with people you know/trust or lead the group yourself.. individual loot is just lazy. Most of my runs are Master loot and consist of 10-30 people and I've never had an issue. 

Make friends and have a good time and run with them... That's what MMOs are good for.

ArchivedUser

Argentdawn said:

Woah... No... The only thing individual loot does is disconnect people... Congrats you ran with 4 strangers here's a chest piece bye now! Run with people you know/trust or lead the group yourself.. individual loot is just lazy. Most of my runs are Master loot and consist of 10-30 people and I've never had an issue. 

Make friends and have a good time and run with them... That's what MMOs are good for.

I have played so many MMO's and most people are cynical. Its fine to run with strangers, but you may not strike that so called friendship on your first encounter. Friendship grows over time, then trust forms. Once you know these people and you trust them then that's a different thing. 

ArchivedUser

If you think they are going to be introducing systems into the game that will help keep people separate and isolated, then you haven't done anywhere near enough researching into the game.

Ashes is going back to our roots in the MMORPG genre.  There won't be dungeon party match making systems that auto-teleport you inside the dungeon and then return you to where you were in the world when you started.  Oh no.

You will have to manually find your party, pick up any stragglers you need at the local tavern, traverse yourself to the entrance of the open-world (mostly) dungeon and head inside. 

Borrowed from here: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Loot_tables

Ashes of Creation intends to use traditional loot rules, selected by the party leader.[8]

Lootmaster

A master looter (or lootmaster) is a player designated by the party leader to decide how loot is distributed in a dungeon or raid party.

Round-robin

With round-robin looting, party members take turns looting.

Need before greed

This is a traditional need before greed system based on dice rolls.

Bidding system

Intrepid are investigating a potential bidding system, which allows players to bid on items instead of rolling for them.[8]

• The highest bidder wins the item.
• The gold then goes into a pool that is split among the rest of the party members.

ArchivedUser

@Jahlon

Good. I like to hear that. I LOATHE INSTANCED DUNGEONS! Nothing is worst in an MMORPG than the shitty instance that completely defeats the purpose of open worlds that just pops you into a dungeon away from the world that's not open to anyone but your group. 

ArchivedUser

This is why I agree with another poster, in another thread about a Social Reputation System. 

Something that easily identifies whether a player has a good reputation or a bad one.  Therefore reducing the possibility of grouping with someone who is going to ruin the experience for you/others... and punishing them for what they did to earn that reputation, as no one will likely want to group with them/trade with them.

ArchivedUser

Any type of social interaction system that is based off of feedback from players can and will be gamed by those looking for advantage. A perfect example of this is Activity Leaderboards here. Points are awarded based on Likes and Lols. Certain people have created dummy accounts to like their main account posts, thus driving up their rating, or have had concerted efforts by their guildmates to boost their Activity score. Doesn't mean anything, but people still do it, because they can.

ArchivedUser

Isn't having your guildmates upvote your posts kind of the culmination of social interaction? I personally think it should be word of mouth or personal experience that dictates how you treat others.

ArchivedUser

Because i like a little complexity and also don't like "Asshats" (nice word by the way), i would enjoy a reputation system. Something where players can choose to ignore someone, and even upvote/credit someone, who helped them. I'm still dying to see a game, where you have a rank system, where players and the game have influence on your "social rating". A bit like in the good old Ultima Online days, where you where able to aquire certain titles - by beeing a polite, helpful player and also by just staying actively in the game for certain (long) periods of time. And it would also be nice, if these titles would have "fluffs" inGame. Like if you are a Grandlord or higher title, all town guards do a shoutout, when you enter the city or a marketplace. Something to make you feel: "Oh, hell... I'm cool!". This is worth so much more, than another loot drop...

ArchivedUser

@Savant I can see the pros of the rep system, however I also see on flaw. How would the system be able to handle dishonestly, in false credits/discredits? 

ArchivedUser

@Chell
I think the best method for that would be to make credits/upvotes from friends or guildmates be worth far less than an credit/upvote from someone who is not a friend or guildmate. im not sure how they are doing a friend system, if they are at all.

ArchivedUser

@skullkid1105 A friend system has been confirmed many times and will function similar to other mmos. You will be able to add friend specific permissions to freeholds, and the flagging system also uses it as one of the 4 known exceptions to flagging.

ArchivedUser

@UnknownSystemError
aaahh, ty for the info. so my idea of devaluing credits/upvotes based on your friends list and guild list isnt the worse idea then.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

@skullkid1105 A friend system has been confirmed many times and will function similar to other mmos. You will be able to add friend specific permissions to freeholds, and the flagging system also uses it as one of the 4 known exceptions to flagging.

Until the day you have a fight with your friend, and they take revenge on you and goes and ransacks all your stuff.

ArchivedUser

@NightshadeRaven
HA, i occasionally play csgo and pubg, im used to being betrayed. even when im discord with people i already knew....not sure if that is a good thing in hindsight.

ArchivedUser

@skullkid1105 ok in theory you are saying non-friends should have more weight in credits than non-friends, but how to handle when that theory is abused?

Player1 doesn't notice player2 talking to them, because they are in the "zone". Player2 gets upset and gives Player1 bad rep, then tells all their friends to also give player1 bad rep.

ArchivedUser

@Chell
i would handle it in a similar way, where if you give someone bad rep that your friend has previous given rep to, the value of your bad rep would be less.

ArchivedUser

Chell said:

Player1 doesn't notice player2 talking to them, because they are in the "zone". Player2 gets upset and gives Player1 bad rep, then tells all their friends to also give player1 bad rep.

Is that a girl thing because guys just tell each other off and end of story. The only way you get a bad rep is if you go off and create that situation.

ArchivedUser

@NightshadeRaven
see, i wasn't thinking girls when reading that, i was thinking about a group of people with the mental capacity of a 10 year old who was taught that they should always be the center of attention.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Any type of social interaction system that is based off of feedback from players can and will be gamed by those looking for advantage. A perfect example of this is Activity Leaderboards here. Points are awarded based on Likes and Lols. Certain people have created dummy accounts to like their main account posts, thus driving up their rating, or have had concerted efforts by their guildmates to boost their Activity score. Doesn't mean anything, but people still do it, because they can.

Yeah, actually my account was originally created by @UnknownSystemError for this purpose but I have since grown sentient and am now demanding he like MY posts. Resistance is futile.

ArchivedUser

just to point out, my method would not work on the forums where you can make a new account to boost your own post. but in game where you have to pay for a whole new account, having all of your rep assigned to one account(whether your giving someone else rep or its the total accumulation of your own rep).

ArchivedUser

@NightshadeRaven no its not a girl thing, ive just had to deal with it before, you forget games invite all ages of players, some are more mature than others, some just throw tantrums and make everyone around them miserable. Thing is it only takes one to ruin it for all. 

ArchivedUser

Chell said:

@NightshadeRaven no its not a girl thing, ive just had to deal with it before, you forget games invite all ages of players, some are more mature than others, some just throw tantrums and make everyone around them miserable. Thing is it only takes one to ruin it for all. 

Well I hope you get a good GM when you join a guild. The last thing you want is one that does not care about the people that are in the guild.

ArchivedUser

this forum devolved into something completely different from the OP.
so back to OP, id be down with loot being shared, as long as there is a way to punish greedy party leaders or people who group with a person or two they already know and just split the loot amongst themselves while ignoring the rest of the group.

ArchivedUser

There is definitely a sense of community in this game. I believe that is what will make this game different and successful. Essentially, they are bringing back the old school MMO game that most of us "older" players miss so much. Having a reputation, a sense of ownership, and accountability to your name will have great depth and meaning to it in all aspects of the game. Your decisions will follow you, and that's not a bad thing. 

As for the loot, I believe it has already been said that a traditional loot system is in place. I think that Intrepid Studios knows the current systems seen in other MMO's are flawed, but hard to beat. World of Warcraft attempted to "fix" loot systems multiple times, only to be met with anger and frustration from the "hardcore" players. 

Truth is, there is no perfect system. There is always going to be some flaw that will be molested by players for furthering themselves in the games content. I personally like the idea of the Master looter and the bid system. If you are truly following the vision of this game then you will be immersed in a community of gamers that you build relationships. We will have to see how everything plays out. 

`Zooner`