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To be, or Not to be, in an Uber-Mega-Guild …
… that is a question. I’ve pondered what it means to be in a mega-guild of literally a thousand members. Although there may be caps on a guild per se – couldn’t it form separate but unofficially allied feeder, crafting, raiding, political (ad nauseum) guilds to the point of multi-node domination? Will they colonize other servers? It’s fair to say that most of these folk’s motivation is not only being the best, but rivaling the programmers to be the first to complete the latest updates and additions as bragging rights. It’s also easier to band together fantastic players instead of competing in fractions giving succor to the restless combine.
Then think about it. Do we really want to be a cog in a big machine, where people trip over each other on Discord chat to acclaim they are the outright victors and champions in Ashes?
How about the romance of the independent rebel cause or the resistance plotting against that juggernaut of experts and uber classes wielding their numbers? Can these large guilds maintain supremacy over all others? I’d really like to see a rise and fall in guild supremacy in nodes. If they cannot be undone, such that mega-guilds hang around Infinium - it may wind up like some other past prominent MMORPGs.
Let’s trust that wise people at intrepid are designing fantastic hoards should there be stagnant and oppressive behemoth guilds. Perhaps, regular player guilds might make pacts with hoards (NPC leaders) to undo what cannot otherwise be undone. Maybe, guilds are expunged after being vanquished on servers only having to reform and reorganize? Risk and Reward.
These are exciting times in Ashes. To be, or Not to be in a huge guild – makes one stop and ponder for a Nano-second. Just my thoughts to avoid the atrophy and anemia that has historically plagued some other MMORPGs. No naming names. Ashes - Making MMORPGs great again! Cheers.
An intrepid gnome is recorded as having lamented that ‘It is the duty of the young to usurp the old (from the gnomechornicon of the apocalypse – book 8: disappearance of the gnomes).’
Comments
I actually love the idea of mega guilds because of one fact that has held true throughout history. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. It held true for me in school when putting down bullies, and it has held true in every game I have taken part in taking down bigger adversaries. Anything can be taken down, the question is, are you willing to put the effort in to make that happen?
Having the dev team regulate how big of a community people can have is the same as having the government stick its hands in marriage. It is stupid and a product of sheer laziness.
However people find safety in numbers and follow an avalanche of other players from game to game. Under one banner there are 1k-2k of strangers following a leading group they've never played with, and now mmorpgs give guilds the capacity of 300-500 members.
A very ugly design of guilds can be observed even in succesful mmorpgs like ESO.
A post that makes sense???
Well done. You must be taking your meds today.
PS: I think you still owe me a beer.
Tbh, getting what you spent months on to build get destroyed in an hour is not exactly fun.
Hope that Intrepid finds a better system for it.
Of course it's anime... but I can't help to think that this situation, or one similar, could happen.
Both of these combined could lead to a very interesting political climate... However, it could turn ugly, extremely fast.
At this moment I'm imagining stories such as: "Twenty guilds banned together to take down [Big Guild]'s territory!"
Cheers!
-Trayo
Reading some of these threads sounds a lot like EVE. I spent a lot of time involved in corporations like Pandemic Horde, etc. and it was some of the most fun I ever had.
Ark could be a good comparison also. Small tribes banding together to take out the big tribes. If you read up on some of those, they felt the same. Some of the most fun in the game.
Joining a huge guild will make you a slave for a while. I do not mean this in a bad way, just that you will need to focus your gameplay around them. Log in, fetch resources for them until your bed time, log out. If you are fine with being a no-named errand boy for a while, it can end up being one of your most enjoyable experiences ever in a game.
When I am building, I will spend weeks just gathering mats. No building, just gathering. Once I have a huge stockpile, then I will start building. When Ark released and we left legacy for the new servers, I had the foundation of my new base up for around 2 months before I ever even built a wall. We slept in the small barn the entire time. When I was done, we had the biggest and nicest base on the server. My point on this is that with games like this, you need to plan ahead. If you know you will be playing this game for a long time, then think about where you want to be 2 months from now.
If 2 months from now you want to be 2nd in command of the largest guild on the server, plan for it on Day 1. Find the group you think will make it, become friends and work your ass off with never a thought for yourself. If they don't make it, it was not a waste. You now have 2 months of experience in a guild and probably have made lasting allies out of other people that may last years. Maybe some quit and convince you to start your own mega guild
I myself prefer a small group of friends over a huge group of people who don't know eachother. I had a blast with Pandemic Horde, but like every other mega guild/tribe/corp out there, at some point they fade away and are replaced with the next one.
Of course it's anime... but I can't help to think that this situation, or one similar could happen.
Both of these combined could lead to a very interesting political climate... However, it could turn ugly, extremely fast.
At this moment I'm imagining stories such as: "Twenty guilds banned together to take down [Big Guild] territory!"
Cheers!
-Trayo
A lot of what the first poster here said I agree with. We can look at other MMO's with relatively unrestricted large-scale PvP content to anticipate how the mega guilds may perform in Ashes and what the large scale PvP meta will turn into. However, I think Ashes is integrating more checks and balances to "level" the playing field to give smaller groups a chance against the huge, dominant guild(s) that will absolutely be present.
Some people have the most fun being the big dog, and others get the most enjoyment out of taking the big dog down (and, of course, the folks who aren't that involved in that content). I'm willing to bet the unique servers will have varying amounts of players who land on either side of that coin.
If you look at unrestricted PvP in other games as you suggested, you will be disappointed and lose faith in what the devs have planned here :-) You will see tons and tons of people bitching about how the mega tribes are ruining it for everyone else and if you look at player count, you will see they nose dive shortly after launch. You cannot compare AoC to any other game out right now.
I have a small post history. I hardly comment at all. If you read my comments, you will see that I defend AoC, but I also (like the above) point out things people seem to gloss over and ignore. It is a well known statistical fact that you can easily research, that people prefer PvE over PvP if given the choice. Unchecked PvP causes the player count to drop drastically after launch, as people get ganked and quit in frustration. Look at Sea of Thieves as the most recent example of this. Awesome game, now dying a slow death.
I only mention this so that you have a comparison to go by. Please do not compare AoC to other games yet. We will have to see what happens.
The big guilds only get bigger as time goes on. If you are on a server and there is a big guild killing everyone, you will either join that guild or end up going to another server. Some will band together, but the majority will want to be on the winning side and join the Big Guild. Most open world PvP servers are ruled by one guild, or an alliance of that guild and a couple others.
Luckily the devs here have probably done their homework and/or have vast experience in online gaming. We will have to see what checks and balances they put into place. It also greatly depends on how big of an audience the devs want. If they only want 200k or so subscribers, it will be more open PvP. If they want 500k+ subscribers, they will put good restrictions on PvP. If they wanted 1mil+, it would be PvP and PvE servers. If they wanted 10mil subscribers, it would be PvE with limited PvP (arenas, battlegrounds, etc).
People who want pure open world PvP are a very vocal minority. The more you cater to them, the less subscribers you will have. Keep this in mind during your discussions :-)
On a side note I believe at most 4 guilds can make an alliance so a total of 1200 could be feasible with such an alliance but we really don’t know what that would look like.
Yeh, it is very hard to even try and imagine what will and will not be possible. We still have alpha and beta for trying different things out. A guild at 300 may be strong enough that the benefits they lose are minimal, compared to what their members can bring to the table. It may be that a guild that can bring 100 just rolls over the 300 because of what they can benefit from. It would be nice if one at 50 could build up enough defenses to keep one at 300 away
Also, to the last portion I quoted, I essentially said the same thing you are in my post: "However, I think Ashes is integrating more checks and balances to "level" the playing field..."
Well I believe some of the things I have said, if taken out of context, would appear to be saying Ashes is doomed to follow the others. From what I can see, the difference of being in a large or small guild will not be the same as other PvP games. I would love to get into the town aspects and defenses that can be added, but we don't know. That also leads into other differences.
Being in a small guild will make it hard to keep up defenses as well as a large one. I said that I hope a 50 man can keep a 300 man away, but that was mostly in jest (I had a smiley!). A small guild is going to work harder, that should just be expected. If a 20 man guild just likes to grow flowers, a 300 man guild should be able to kick their butt. I am not saying I want it, I don't... but it would be the right scenario.
So choosing to be in a small guild is a gamble. You should expect to be crushed at some point, but if the devs do it right, it should not be common. I do not envy the devs on balancing this. If it happens all the time, people will quit in anxiety. If it only happens every blue moon, might as well be PvE. Battles need to happen and towns need to suffer. Deciding whether to go with a small guild or large guild will be hard for those that are not starting their own.
Since large guilds will lose out on other bonuses a smaller guild could pick up on, it seems they might naturally balance out. It might even be possible for two well-matched guilds to take on the larger guild with proper stratagy.
From the wiki: "Membership slots will be traded off for advantages, a larger guild won’t have access to power boosting guild ability slots."
And: "Sieges will have things that smaller groups have an advantage in."
(https://aocwiki.net/Guilds)
I've had my share of games with the *one* guild on the server that brags about how many members it has, so I'm really excited that AoC is finding a way to help the little guys. And if this guild system plays out, I really can't see one guild terrorizing a server.
What an alliance could do, though... That I have not seen!
This would encourage guilds to keep player counts decent and there would be more drama between the guilds within the alliances(?).
Since large guilds will lose out on other bonuses a smaller guild could pick up on, it seems they might naturally balance out. It might even be possible for two well-matched guilds to take on the larger guild with proper stratagy.
From the wiki: "Membership slots will be traded off for advantages, a larger guild won’t have access to power boosting guild ability slots."
And: "Sieges will have things that smaller groups have an advantage in."
(https://aocwiki.net/Guilds)
I've had my share of games with the *one* guild on the server that brags about how many members it has, so I'm really excited that AoC is finding a way to help the little guys. And if this guild system plays out, I really can't see one guild terrorizing a server.
What an alliance could do, though... That I have not seen!