Can We Please Have Buffs?

ArchivedUser

I am a fan of the old school MMORPG element where you had multiple buffs for a class to give you damage or defense boosts and I am wondering if we could have them in Ashes of Creation.

My idea is to have them to be only usable on yourself to provide orginality and it also prevents needless problems when you need to buff a party or raid party. 

Thoughts?

Edit: I should've made myself more clear. What I am asking for are self buffs.

ArchivedUser

I am, in general, against any additional buffs.
What's the point?

You're either powerful enough to do something or not. If everyone has the same access to the same buffs then they would be in constant use. At that point why not just add the bonuses to the class... right, people would still want buffs.

Outside of some magic items, mainly potions, and abilities from other classes (Cleric/Bard/etc.) I would be against general/misc. buffs.

In all likely hood some will occur though.

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

I am, in general, against any additional buffs.
What's the point?

You're either powerful enough to do something or not. If everyone has the same access to the same buffs then they would be in constant use. At that point why not just add the bonuses to the class... right, people would still want buffs.

Outside of some magic items, mainly potions, and abilities from other classes (Cleric/Bard/etc.) I would be against general/misc. buffs.

In all likely hood some will occur though.

I think your misunderstanding what I mean. I meant each class gets buffs but they are all different from each other. I do see your other point though, I just like the idea of having the skills to further strengthen your class.

ArchivedUser

I don´t know if i missed something but all MMORPGs that i know and played have some kind of buffs/debuffs. So i don´t understand how this is old school. Or do you mean some specific buffs?

In my opinion it is good that you may need to target your party member with some of your skills to give them buffs. It´s more interaction with your party and more choices in battle.

But we already know and i believe it´s confirmed that we will have passive skills which are basically buffs.
And we will have active skills that will trigger some buffs/debuffs either on yourself or on other players depending on the skill.

And we have the Bard. Since a bard is usually about buffing others and every Archetype can chose Bard as secondary class everyone can probably have some buff abilities.

ArchivedUser

Augentier said:

I don´t know if i missed something but all MMORPGs that i know and played have some kind of buffs/debuffs. So i don´t understand how this is old school. Or do you mean some specific buffs?

In my opinion it is good that you may need to target your party member with some of your skills to give them buffs. It´s more interaction with your party and more choices in battle.

But we already know and i believe it´s confirmed that we will have passive skills which are basically buffs.
And we will have active skills that will trigger some buffs/debuffs either on yourself or on other players depending on the skill.

And we have the Bard. Since a bard is usually about buffing others and every Archetype can chose Bard as secondary class everyone can probably have some buff abilities.

Yea my bad. When i said old school i meant older MMORPGs. Bad choice of words, its just that the newer MMORPGs does not seems to implement buff skills and I just wanted a return to that system. I also knew about bard but that wasn't the kind if buff i was talking about. Its was just a thought I had.

ArchivedUser

Tyrant1243 said:

Augentier said:

I don´t know if i missed something but all MMORPGs that i know and played have some kind of buffs/debuffs. So i don´t understand how this is old school. Or do you mean some specific buffs?

In my opinion it is good that you may need to target your party member with some of your skills to give them buffs. It´s more interaction with your party and more choices in battle.

But we already know and i believe it´s confirmed that we will have passive skills which are basically buffs.
And we will have active skills that will trigger some buffs/debuffs either on yourself or on other players depending on the skill.

And we have the Bard. Since a bard is usually about buffing others and every Archetype can chose Bard as secondary class everyone can probably have some buff abilities.

Yea my bad. When i said old school i meant older MMORPGs. Bad choice of words, its just that the newer MMORPGs does not seems to implement buff skills and I just wanted a return to that system. I also knew about bard but that wasn't the kind if buff i was talking about. Its was just a thought I had.

Yes they do . . . I have no clue what you have been playing but a lot of recent MMOs have buffs/debuffs. Here are some that come to mind:

-Neverwinter
-Tera
-Trove
-BDO
-tired of listing them already because I realized I cannot think of any that DO NOT have some form of buffs and debuffs for each class

ArchivedUser

I can't think of a single MMORPG that doesn't have class buffs haha. Why is this a topic? Buffs are a staple in literally every RPG game especially MMORPGs

ArchivedUser

whitedude31 said:

Tyrant1243 said:

Augentier said:

I don´t know if i missed something but all MMORPGs that i know and played have some kind of buffs/debuffs. So i don´t understand how this is old school. Or do you mean some specific buffs?

In my opinion it is good that you may need to target your party member with some of your skills to give them buffs. It´s more interaction with your party and more choices in battle.

But we already know and i believe it´s confirmed that we will have passive skills which are basically buffs.
And we will have active skills that will trigger some buffs/debuffs either on yourself or on other players depending on the skill.

And we have the Bard. Since a bard is usually about buffing others and every Archetype can chose Bard as secondary class everyone can probably have some buff abilities.

Yea my bad. When i said old school i meant older MMORPGs. Bad choice of words, its just that the newer MMORPGs does not seems to implement buff skills and I just wanted a return to that system. I also knew about bard but that wasn't the kind if buff i was talking about. Its was just a thought I had.

Yes they do . . . I have no clue what you have been playing but a lot of recent MMOs have buffs/debuffs. Here are some that come to mind:

-Neverwinter
-Tera
-Trove
-BDO
-tired of listing them already because I realized I cannot think of any that DO NOT have some form of buffs and debuffs for each class

Out of all the games you listed I have only played TERA but yes a system like that. IIRC You had multiple buffs for each class that were unique and all I was asking for was for a system like that in Ashes of Creation but could only be casted on yourself. 

I guess I should have provided an example in my first post. A buff system like DDO where you had a lot of buffs with each class. DDO probably isn't the best example though because i don't know if you can cast buffs on others or not.

I do see now that it isn't a popular opinion though so i understand.

ArchivedUser

There will be buffs!

ArchivedUser

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

I see. Thanks for the information.

ArchivedUser

whitedude31 said:

Tyrant1243 said:

Augentier said:

I don´t know if i missed something but all MMORPGs that i know and played have some kind of buffs/debuffs. So i don´t understand how this is old school. Or do you mean some specific buffs?

In my opinion it is good that you may need to target your party member with some of your skills to give them buffs. It´s more interaction with your party and more choices in battle.

But we already know and i believe it´s confirmed that we will have passive skills which are basically buffs.
And we will have active skills that will trigger some buffs/debuffs either on yourself or on other players depending on the skill.

And we have the Bard. Since a bard is usually about buffing others and every Archetype can chose Bard as secondary class everyone can probably have some buff abilities.

Yea my bad. When i said old school i meant older MMORPGs. Bad choice of words, its just that the newer MMORPGs does not seems to implement buff skills and I just wanted a return to that system. I also knew about bard but that wasn't the kind if buff i was talking about. Its was just a thought I had.

Yes they do . . . I have no clue what you have been playing but a lot of recent MMOs have buffs/debuffs. Here are some that come to mind:

-Neverwinter
-Tera
-Trove
-BDO
-tired of listing them already because I realized I cannot think of any that DO NOT have some form of buffs and debuffs for each class

Out of all the games you listed I have only played TERA but yes a system like that. IIRC You had multiple buffs for each class that were unique and all I was asking for was for a system like that in Ashes of Creation but could only be casted on yourself. 

I guess I should have provided an example in my first post. A buff system like DDO where you had a lot of buffs with each class. DDO probably isn't the best example though because I don't know if you can cast buffs on others or not.

I do see now that it isn't a popular opinion though so I understand if they don't add any buffs.

ArchivedUser

There is a difference between out-of-combat buffs and combat buffs.

Practically every MMO game has 3rd party allie beneficial skills as well as enemy detrimental skills in single target or AoE form.

It would be nice if many of those are out of combat and class/race/profession specific.

Yet everytime I see a new moaw BUUUUUFFFFFFFFFFFS! thread, I can pretty much guarantee someone is on a godmode powertrip hoping for ways to break the game and become OP. Never see a debuff+buff thread. Only reward....never risk.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

Good news

ArchivedUser

I played SWG for years and basically if you didn't spend the 1st 15 mins of your game time getting buffed you were doing it wrong.  Even tho I loved this game and the atmosphere in the canteens was great, jumping on for 30 mins didn't happen.  I like the idea of specialized buffs for stuff, Carrot broth for improved vision at night for example but having 10 or 15 buffs you just have to have to be competitive is just not fun.

ArchivedUser

Buffs are a destroyer of mmorpgs. Also played swg, they added massive buffs basically as a huge bandaid in order to allow players balance themselves against the super strong and out of whack pve and pvp. It was a destroyer. It massively ruined the game. Fix the game at the foundation and you WONT NEED BUFFS. I'm ok with very minor buffs through food or drunk. Key word, MINOR. Anything big should be avoided at all costs. 

ArchivedUser

Don't blame the buff blame the game

ArchivedUser

I'll never forget playing final fantasy XI and getting into a JP party with 3 other ninjas, a bard, and a red mage.......having the haste and regen buffs from those 2 classes on 4 ninja made us gods.... I will always be for support/buff classes because of that game.

ArchivedUser

Buffing others is key for support classes in RPGs.
Also facilitates communication/interaction with other players.
I loved playing a druid in EQ and granting SoW to other players as part of a casual greeting.
It's part of what makes playing a multiplayer game meaningful and entertaining: synergy of abilities with other players.

Spending 15 minutes maxing buffs is overkill. That just seems excessively unnecessary; not fun.

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

Good news

Tea Bone

ArchivedUser

But... that was the best part about raiding in classic Everquest! The 30-45 minutes spent buffing BEFORE THE KILLING EVEN STARTED! Back when those spells cost reagents and had a wonderfully long cast time that had to be put on at least 30 of the 50 raid members. But then they came out with those pesky "Raid Wide" effect spells.

We won't even mention what happens when the raid wipes.


The one thing I do miss about that system, though, was being able to cast spells on players outside of your party. Every MMO I play now doesn't have that feature. Sure, you can group up with a newbie and just one shot everything for them, but I've found it really takes the immersion of the gameplay away. (Twinks are another story!)

Back in Everquest, killing and leveling were slow, so having that wandering Druid give you a Thronskin and a SoW made them god-like. And it was an easy way to make friends. "Like me! I have buffs! "

ArchivedUser

I remember the Enchanter class in EQ and their buff “Clarity” which was nicknamed “Crack”.  It was common to see, “Will give plat for crack” in dungeons...

ArchivedUser

Tyrant1243 said:

I am a fan of the old school MMORPG element where you had multiple buffs for a class to give you damage or defense boosts and I am wondering if we could have them in Ashes of Creation.

My idea is to have them to be only usable on yourself to provide orginality and it also prevents needless problems when you need to buff a party or raid party. 

Thoughts?

Tyrant1243 said:

I am a fan of the old school MMORPG element where you had multiple buffs for a class to give you damage or defense boosts and I am wondering if we could have them in Ashes of Creation.

My idea is to have them to be only usable on yourself to provide orginality and it also prevents needless problems when you need to buff a party or raid party. 

Thoughts?

Bard = multi buff class.

ArchivedUser

Buffs as in auras and blessings are nice for immersion. They also promote teamwork. But they can be annoying if they are not simple to use. They also should not be too complex since that creates balance issues.

ArchivedUser

I understand what everyone is saying and it now occurs to me that my idea is an unpopular one. I just wanted some buff skills to make the class your playing even more unique. They could be give 5% more haste or physical or magical damage or take 10% less damage. Maybe even those situational buff skills like in WoW where a priest could levitate or a warlock could cast unending breath but obviously not those skills. Just something to make classes unique. Also the reason i said could only be cast on yourself is because it would be kinda annoying to cast so many buffs on a whole party.

ArchivedUser

Marzzo1337 said:

Buffs as in auras and blessings are nice for immersion. They also promote teamwork. But they can be annoying if they are not simple to use. They also should not be too complex since that creates balance issues.

Yea i agree. I like them for immersion but i do see issues with balance but i also don't want anything too complex either.

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

Good news

Praise the Tea.

ArchivedUser

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

Good news

Praise the Tea.

Even in death I still drink tea

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

Good news

Praise the Tea.

Even in death I still drink tea

I just ran out of tea...kill me please

ArchivedUser

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

Good news

Praise the Tea.

Even in death I still drink tea

I just ran out of tea...kill me please

how do you run out of tea? I just stockpile it mind you that does cost me a lot every month

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

UnknownSystemError said:

Part of their plan is to have unique buffs that can only be obtained through food/drink. This adds yet another reason for people to craft and to use player created spaces like freehold taverns. Instead of class specific buffs my feeling is that you will see more of a purchase mechanic than a button that every tank hits in group every hour or 30 minutes to apply some effect to their current group or drive by buffing.

Good news

Praise the Tea.

Even in death I still drink tea

I just ran out of tea...kill me please

how do you run out of tea? I just stockpile it mind you that does cost me a lot every month

Nah I have tea, I just had this expensive, tasty stuff that ran out T_T