On the pitfalls of "light moderation."

ArchivedUser

There are many regimes one may decide on when managing discourse on any platform. From a very hands off approach, to a very strict one. All of them come with some drawbacks, but I find an evenly-balanced approach works best.

The primary interest of Intrepid would seem to be in gathering as many perspectives as possible to consider while designing the game. This allows them to maximize its appeal and fun factor for as many in the target audience as they can. This is great both financially and to pursue their passion for crafting the best experience they can for us as gamers.

So, why does light moderation actually do a grave disservice to the free flow of discussion? It's actually quite simple. In such an environment, where most any language is permitted, you will have those whose primary mode of discussion involves tossing out insults against anyone with whom they disagree.

In such a situation, the recipient is left with only two options. Step away and allow the belligerent individual to effectively silence them and their perspective, or continue trying to engage the topic anyway. In either case, constructive discourse is made impossible. Either because the discussion is ended prematurely with no proper debate, or because the belligerent will simply continue escalating the insults and trolling until the entire topic is about the person they are targeting.

It is my firm opinion that repeated insults and targeted harassment absolutely ruin constructive discussion regardless of how the recipient chooses to address them, and only moderation enforcing a modicum of civility on all participants can ensure the free flow of ideas, no matter how unpopular they may be, can take place.

To anyone reading this, thank you for your time and remember we're all here because we love Ashes.

ArchivedUser

are you Realllyyyyyy doing this giga? 

ArchivedUser

He is trying to branch out into new media. Going to be a bit of a shock once he realizes that once you post stuff here, you can't delete it to try and act all innocent later. Whatever feeds the endless pit of need.

ArchivedUser

Please don't bring the discord here too not the... the... guild_diplomacy

ArchivedUser

NeuroGuy said:

Please don't bring the discord here too

Light moderation is a game-wide philosophy across all platforms for discussing the game. The thread is equally valid for these forums, though I admit it doesn't seem to get as out of hand here.

We are however at 3 comments and none of them have even attempted to engage the actual topic. Which I believe definitely has merit or I would not have posted it in the first place.

ArchivedUser

Thank you for the perspective. I've made sure to pass this onto the team.

ArchivedUser

The Angry Bear is back!!!


With a passive aggressive post this time. 

ArchivedUser

Well, I think you are a shit-stirring bag of endless need for validation. Your topic has not received the imagined love and adoration that you expected on Discord, so you are trying your particular brand of attention seeking here. Plenty of us are on both, don't expect a warm welcome after the shit you have pulled for weeks on other media. And just to make sure the OP doesn't suddenly get changed we will make sure to archive all of your stuff for posterity.

Gigabear said:

There are many regimes one may decide on when managing discourse on any platform. From a very hands off approach, to a very strict one. All of them come with some drawbacks, but I find an evenly-balanced approach works best.

The primary interest of Intrepid would seem to be in gathering as many perspectives as possible to consider while designing the game. This allows them to maximize its appeal and fun factor for as many in the target audience as they can. This is great both financially and to pursue their passion for crafting the best experience they can for us as gamers.

So, why does light moderation actually do a grave disservice to the free flow of discussion? It's actually quite simple. In such an environment, where most any language is permitted, you will have those whose primary mode of discussion involves tossing out insults against anyone with whom they disagree.

In such a situation, the recipient is left with only two options. Step away and allow the belligerent individual to effectively silence them and their perspective, or continue trying to engage the topic anyway. In either case, constructive discourse is made impossible. Either because the discussion is ended prematurely with no proper debate, or because the belligerent will simply continue escalating the insults and trolling until the entire topic is about the person they are targeting.

It is my firm opinion that repeated insults and targeted harassment absolutely ruin constructive discussion regardless of how the recipient chooses to address them, and only moderation enforcing a modicum of civility on all participants can ensure the free flow of ideas, no matter how unpopular they may be, can take place.

To anyone reading this, thank you for your time and remember we're all here because we love Ashes.

ArchivedUser

Gigabear said:

NeuroGuy said:

Please don't bring the discord here too

Light moderation is a game-wide philosophy across all platforms for discussing the game. The thread is equally valid for these forums, though I admit it doesn't seem to get as out of hand here.

We are however at 3 comments and none of them have even attempted to engage the actual topic. Which I believe definitely has merit or I would not have posted it in the first place.

the reason is we are calm and relaxed here unlike the discord. all you are doing is bringing the problems from discord to the forums.

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

Gigabear said:

NeuroGuy said:

Please don't bring the discord here too

Light moderation is a game-wide philosophy across all platforms for discussing the game. The thread is equally valid for these forums, though I admit it doesn't seem to get as out of hand here.

We are however at 3 comments and none of them have even attempted to engage the actual topic. Which I believe definitely has merit or I would not have posted it in the first place.

the reason is we are calm and relaxed here unlike the discord. all you are doing is bringing the problems from discord to the forums.

With all due respect, look one comment above yours and reconsider the assertion that my OP is not also valid here. I dare not engage it directly, but it's kind of staring me in the face regardless.

The fact is, a forum thread really is the best place to hash out such an issue. If people think the current moderation regime is fine, they should absolutely say so.

ArchivedUser

Gigabear said:

nagash said:

Gigabear said:

NeuroGuy said:

Please don't bring the discord here too

Light moderation is a game-wide philosophy across all platforms for discussing the game. The thread is equally valid for these forums, though I admit it doesn't seem to get as out of hand here.

We are however at 3 comments and none of them have even attempted to engage the actual topic. Which I believe definitely has merit or I would not have posted it in the first place.

the reason is we are calm and relaxed here unlike the discord. all you are doing is bringing the problems from discord to the forums.

With all due respect, look one comment above yours and reconsider the assertion that my OP is not also valid here. I dare not engage it directly, but it's kind of staring me in the face regardless.

The fact is, a forum thread really is the best place to hash out such an issue. If people think the current moderation regime is fine, they should absolutely say so.

Ok let me state it for all to see

I, Nagash, think the current moderation for the ashes of creation community is completely fine.

as for USE post I think at has to do with you as a person and not the topic its self. 

ArchivedUser

If the primary purpose of the post is to gauge the community, we have polls: "yes mod is fine" "no it is not".

ArchivedUser

ITS MY FIRM OPINION THAT YOU SHOULD BE BANNED!! THIS TIME WITHOUT ANY TAKE BACKS! YOU ARE DOING THE SAME SHIT AS BEFORE!

ArchivedUser

Moderation seems fine.  Once someone really started to lay into me hardcore on these forums.  I chose to not rise to the bait, and I didn’t even bother reporting the person, but they got banned anyway.  Once I actually did report someone because they started a political thread which was clearly designed to instigate trouble and within hours it was gone.  Most of the time the discussion here is pretty mellow so things like post editing, thread deletion, and banning aren’t necessary.

And I’ve served as a moderator on multiple boards over the years, and I’m an administrator at Wikipedia (semi-retired) so I know from the other side what good and bad moderation looks like.  These boards are fine.

ArchivedUser

The current moderation is a colander when we need a sieve. Many toxic messages find their way through unchallenged.

ArchivedUser

Gigabear said:

So, why does light moderation actually do a grave disservice to the free flow of discussion? It's actually quite simple. In such an environment, where most any language is permitted, you will have those whose primary mode of discussion involves tossing out insults against anyone with whom they disagree.

I see nowhere where the light moderation has been a disservice to free flow discussions. Sure people sometimes use "not nice language", but I have never seen it in combination with a discussion, only seen it when people are talking with eachother rather than discussing. Heck, even the so called trolls in the Discord actually dont really use "foul langauge" when they actually discuss things.

Gigabear said:

In such a situation, the recipient is left with only two options. Step away and allow the belligerent individual to effectively silence them and their perspective, or continue trying to engage the topic anyway. In either case, constructive discourse is made impossible. Either because the discussion is ended prematurely with no proper debate, or because the belligerent will simply continue escalating the insults and trolling until the entire topic is about the person they are targeting.

Somehow you seem to have neglected to mention the option to block people if you don't like them, even if that's what you personally do. Why did you leave this option out? oO 
Also, if they dont reply to you anymore all over sudden, maybe your topic just wasn't interesting? Maybe it was boring or not worth discussing?
The only times I've seen it "end prematurely" is when you
A: Change the topic
B: Starts talking to someone else 
C: Ignores the person you were discussing with all over sudden
D; Stop talking about it 

As you've so graciously said in the past to others "Just ignore them or block them"
Take your own advice? 

Gigabear said:

It is my firm opinion that repeated insults and targeted harassment absolutely ruin constructive discussion regardless of how the recipient chooses to address them, and only moderation enforcing a modicum of civility on all participants can ensure the free flow of ideas, no matter how unpopular they may be, can take place.

To anyone reading this, thank you for your time and remember we're all here because we love Ashes.

Same as above.
Guess what, the CEO has said that "Toxicity" as you so view it, is fine as long as it does stay within certain bounds when it comes to language, and that it involves only the game, so no real life stuff etc. 
Besides those points, you will have friction between different Guilds for instance, CEO knows this and accepts this fact, he just tells people to stay within certain bounds.

" only moderation enforcing a modicum of civility on all participants can ensure the free flow of ideas, no matter how unpopular they may be, can take place."
This just makes it seem like that you're upset that people don't like your opinions and ideas. 
They still won't like them even if moderation became heavier you know, neither would they spread your ideas to others if they don't like them, so they still wouldn't "flow free".
There is literally nothing that stops you from speaking your mind, but do note that people will respond if:
They like your idea and agree with it
They dislike your idea and disagree with it

Trying to silence people just because they don't like your ideas/opinions is exactly what stops "Free flow of ideas".

ArchivedUser

Ziltch said:

Trying to silence people just because they don't like your ideas/opinions is exactly what stops "Free flow of ideas".

Absolutely not. I actively encouraged people to take an opposing stance to me in this thread, and many have done so. Only ONE of them did I take any issue with, and it had nothing to do with disagreement. 

You yourself just disagreed with me, and that's fine. I surely would not wish to have such a post removed. There would be no valid reason to do so.

However as it is arguing a false premise, I don't feel a full response is necessary.

ArchivedUser

I just don't understand why you would bring this up here and now I mean you are never on the forums, so you have no real way to understand how we work. Unlike the discord, we tend to be more civil and even when problems do arise they are fixed by the mods within hours. I have no problem with the forums, but I do have a problem with you saying that there is one.

ArchivedUser

The team has acknowledged the goings on in and out of this topic. I'll be closing it due to the conclusion.