What is with all the concern about battle royales?

ArchivedUser

I have been listening to a weekly podcast show on YouTube focused on Ashes of Creation.  I might have started listening last Spring.  The last two episodes the commentators seem to be obsessed with the idea that AoC has abandoned the idea of being an MMO in favor of becoming a battle royale game.

I know the game is in the first stages of Alpha 1 and I know the current focus is on getting the combat worked out.  So, it seems pretty logical that the developers would have the game operating as a battle royale at this point.  But the commentators seem genuinely concerned that the game is never going to move beyond this stage.  It seems so odd that I have not even finished listening to the shows.  Maybe they are not so concerned by the end of the podcast and I simply have not realized it.

I have kind of drifted away from the live streams and from this forum a little bit as well.  Are people here in general concerned that this battle royale idea is a real possibility?  I myself cannot imagine the game developers would switch gears so drastically.  I do not understand why the podcast guys seem to be so concerned.

ArchivedUser

Idk man people are always hungry for some drama so it is to be expected. You should honestly pay no mind to them since you will give them what they desire...attention.

ArchivedUser

They’re concerned because they have no idea what’s going on.  They clearly haven’t been keeping well-informed.

I suggest finding a better podcast to listen to.

ArchivedUser

It is all because of Fortnite and the way EPIC handled that. To start Fornite was really a co-op PVE game with a PVP BR mode bolted on, but as the BR element was so popular it was perceived by many that EPIC dropped updates for the co-op in favour of concentrating on the BR mode. Other games from EPIC like the UT reboot also came to a halt. 

The concerns being aired now are that Intrepid may be tempted to follow the same path as EPIC. To be fair to Intrepid they have stated this in not their intention.

ArchivedUser

@IcterusGalbula
If People would inform themselfes this wouldn't be a big discussion. I also saw some podcasts where they complained about this and stopped listening. Its just to ridiculous.

Steven stated that it took one week and five people to build the battle royale.
The teamsize of AoC is over 100. 5 people out of over 100 is definitely not AoC abandoning the MMO.
Also they said from the beginning that it is a Action combat test.

And from every bugfix, server perfomance improvent or UI change in the BR the MMO will profit because they are fixing the problems now.

ArchivedUser

Yeh most likely a combination of Fortnite's release and people not following the development of AoC that closely.

ArchivedUser

I think it's more about Intrepid saying people were confused about the Battle Royal for testing....they weren't. So they decided to make it it's own game mode....which is more confusing. That's going to persist after the MMORPG is actually created. What's more concerning is people are calling for balancing and item changes to Apocalypse. If you're worrying about balancing that mode there's no way your focus is 100% on the MMORPG. 

Before when people saw the BR they'd ask what happen to the MMORPG and you'd tell them this is an Alpha test and that was literally the end of it, no one kept on after that. Now when people ask what happen to the MMORPG you have to explain that it's still coming but this is a test that's going to funnel content into the game, oh and also it is it's own game mode that will actually be there after the MMORPG, but don't worry that the MMORPG is still coming, just that Intrepid plans to keep this game mode permanently. You can easily see peoples frustrations with that thinking. So what happens if the MMORPG launches poorly and Apocalypse continues showing growth. Does the focus all of a sudden start the shift?

Intrepid would of been better off bringing Apocalypse back either after AoC is released or towards the beta once AoC was about the release, not create a game mode a whole year + before AoC is meant to be released. Considering just about every Battle Royal game was created by it being another game completely and changed to a BR mode full time and AoC is doing just that. I can imagine everyone being concerned about it. What Intrepid is doing is exactly how every other BR game got created.

Now, all those worries could be for naught. Siege mode can come out in December with classes and look amazing, Horde mode can be released on time and balance could show promise. They can hit all of their deadlines and Apocalypse can just be in the background not mattering....or they can start adding stuff to Apocalypse, start missing deadlines, fall behind and all of a sudden having this permanent game mode that isn't just for testing can raise eye brows. I'm hoping for the former and everything goes smoothly and it's not any issues. Not everyone is optimistic though.

ArchivedUser

You’d have to ignore that Intrepid has been getting things done ahead of schedule at this point.  There’s no need to start worrying about them getting desperate and giving up on literally everything that was planned and promised when they’ve shown absolutely no reason to.

ArchivedUser

@McKnightrider I think you described perfectly what the general Problem is.

But i have to object on multiple points:

McKnightrider said:

I think it's more about Intrepid saying people were confused about the Battle Royal for testing....they weren't. [...]

Have you seen any Twitch-Stream or Youtube-Video about the BR-"Alpha1"?
There were tons of people wondering in the chats/comments why the game has turned into a battle royale.

McKnightrider said:

[...]
Before when people saw the BR they'd ask what happen to the MMORPG and you'd tell them this is an Alpha test and that was literally the end of it, no one kept on after that.
[...]

A Lot of people didn´t understand that the "Alpha1" is an additional Alpha before "Alpha2" . Instead the huge (uninformed) masses in the chats went: "They turned the Alpha into a BR lol".

McKnightrider said:

[...] What's more concerning is people are calling for balancing and item changes to Apocalypse. If you're worrying about balancing that mode there's no way your focus is 100% on the MMORPG. [...]

There are not a lot of weapons or skills in the BR. So balancing them will not take away huge recources. Additionally the balancing in the BR may be beneficial towards the MMO. Because they can gather balancing experience with limited skills before they try to balance 64 classes.

McKnightrider said:

[...]
Intrepid would of been better off bringing Apocalypse back either after AoC is released or towards the beta once AoC was about the release, not create a game mode a whole year + before AoC is meant to be released. 
[...]

Possibility to tests the Servers for a whole year with different game modes. AoC would probably the first game in history which doesn´t have Server issues or general crashes on launch.

McKnightrider said:

[...]
Considering just about every Battle Royal game was created by it being another game completely and changed to a BR mode full time and AoC is doing just that. 
[...]

As far as i know none of the current BRs primary game was an MMORPG which was already in development for almost 3 years.
Most of them were early access titles or small Indie-Titles and not "the biggest MMORPG currently under development". So why and how can people compare this?

I think the some examples are:
PUBG, Fortnite, H1Z1
PUGB
obviously developed as a BR, so no comparison possible
Fortnite: Save the World
Reviews were not over the top and it had a box cost. As far as i remeber it the interest in Fortnite was not big until the BR was released, it was just another normal game. So the "Save the world"-Part maybe would have been already dead (one and a half year is pretty long for an average title) if it wasn´t for the BR, because now Fortnite is the most popular game around.
H1Z1: Just Survive 
The Title wasn´t stopped because of the BR. If you read the news and dev´s announcements then you will see that the game was stopped because there was no real interest for this game. You can´t develop a game for potentially 100 players.

McKnightrider said:

[...]
So what happens if the MMORPG launches poorly and Apocalypse continues showing growth. Does the focus all of a sudden start the shift?
[...]

Of course it will.
If AoC has only 1000 Subscribers and Apocalypse has 1 Million (cash shop paying) players. Guess where the focus will go. You can´t pay a team of 200 people with 1000 subscribers.

But people keep forgetting (same with Fortnite:StW):
If AoC launches poorly: How long will the game last if there is nothing else? Or more precisely: How long until intrepid runs out of money and can´t afford to support this game anymore?
And how long will it last if there would be an additional successfull branch which brings huge profit to Intrepid?

I can see 4 scenarios with Apocalypse (APOC):

1. AoC good and APOC good: Intrepid gets lots of money and can grow which will probably benefit the MMORPG. The MMO could potentially become better than without APOC.
2. AoC good and APOC bad: Well at least they got lots of testing data from APOC
3. AoC bad and APOC good: Money from APOC could potentially save AoC
4. AoC bad and APOC bad: 

Before that it it was just:

1. AoC good: Yaay!
2. AoC bad: 

Yes without Apocalypse it was easier.
But with Apocalypse there are more possibilities which can assure that AoC will survive or become even better than without Apocalypse.

Sorry post got longer than i initially intended.

ArchivedUser

Are we still looking at combat with combo bars at the bottom of the screen? This is going to hamper sales because it is too UI focussed and not integral to combat. It would be much better if we had upper attack (E button for example) and lower attack (C button for example) after a skill to initiate combo moves rather than a gauge bar. This would still involve skill and timing but would liven the action combat up and not disengage the action combat to focus on a bar. I'm not sure what the current status of the action combat is and am going by the Pod Casts and Videos that are on youtube.