How relevant/powerful should crafted gear be?

ArchivedUser

Today, most craftable gear in most games is second to dungeon/raid loot which could be refered to as endgame gear. Usually, crafted gear takes a lot of time to get and is also mostly weaker than dungeon/raid gear. We see this in modern WoW for example, where crafted gear takes time and resources to get but is also useless in comparison to raid gear. Crafted gear has no relevance in WoW. 

On the other hand, Intrepid Studios have told us that crafting will be relevant in AoC. My question is, how relevant would you like crafting to be? 

I use the term "endgame" gear here as a reference to the most powerful gear in the game. 

ArchivedUser

No need for a poll. We have already been told a couple different times that crafted gear will have parity with looted gear at "endgame." There is very little BOE/BOP planned. 

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

No need for a poll. We have already been told a couple different times that crafted gear will have parity with looted gear at "endgame." There is very little BOE/BOP planned. 

I see, thank you! Though this is mostly to see what the community actually thinks and wants. 

ArchivedUser

I like it this way . If you want the non plus ultra you need access to high tear crafters or be one by yourself and you have to beat the hardest content . I hope it will be very hard to get best possible gear and equally rewarding .

ArchivedUser

Option C: Crafted gear should be equal to endgame gear

That's how it should and will be. I'm more than thankful for that.
I'm of course aware, that crafting components would have to be gathered by raiding a dungeon, that's the perfect compromise.

Also, you introduce the term endgame gear as the most powerful gear in the game. Some comparisons in the poll don't work with that definition (ie should be better than..). It's quite obvious that you are actually talking about raid gear, just call it that.^^

ArchivedUser

Hackerson said:

[...]

Also, you introduce the term endgame gear as the most powerful gear in the game. Some comparisons in the poll don't work with that definition (ie should be better than..). It's quite obvious that you are actually talking about raid gear, just call it that.^^

Exactly. Im so confused by the options.
If endgame gear ist the most powerful gear how could crafted gear be better than the most powerful gear?

But i´m fine with how they are planning it. Combo of crafted and boss dropped. Neither crafting nor boss-drops should be superior/inferior. 

ArchivedUser

Crafted gear should vary with your blacksmith skill, i hope when you craft you need to actually do the blacksmith thing from smelting to molding and the stats will vary on how did you do it. Not just simple click then tadan you crafted this item.

ArchivedUser

Hackerson said:

Option C: Crafted gear should be equal to endgame gear

That's how it should and will be. I'm more than thankful for that.
I'm of course aware, that crafting components would have to be gathered by raiding a dungeon, that's the perfect compromise.

Also, you introduce the term endgame gear as the most powerful gear in the game. Some comparisons in the poll don't work with that definition (ie should be better than..). It's quite obvious that you are actually talking about raid gear, just call it that.^^

I do not only mean raid gear. Some games have 3-5 man dungeons as their hardest contents, some games have pvp. Since we probably will be able to get gear from PVP i regard the best gear to get from PVP as endgame gear. Raiding is Always Everything in endgame. Sometimes, endgame gear can also be found from quests in some games too. 

That Is why i say endgame instead of Raiding gear. 

ArchivedUser

GIVE ME CHOICES OR I START MASSACRING NOOBS!!!!!!!!

ArchivedUser

whitedude31 said:

GIVE ME CHOICES OR I START MASSACRING NOOBS!!!!!!!!

You have the choice to not use only capital letters.Therefore you have no reason to slaughter innocent noobs.

But i agree with the idea of this. Its infuriating when there is only one possible endgame gear. There should be discussions over the best endgame gear and not one gearset which is the best.

ArchivedUser

Augentier said:

whitedude31 said:

GIVE ME CHOICES OR I START MASSACRING NOOBS!!!!!!!!

You have the choice to not use only capital letters.Therefore you have no reason to slaughter innocent noobs.

But i agree with the idea of this. Its infuriating when there is only one possible endgame gear. There should be discussions over the best endgame gear and not one gearset which is the best.

One would hope mixtures would be ideal so it wont all be one set but multiple pieces we aim to achieve.

ArchivedUser

Equal would be great.
Players wouldnt be forced into content and could choose how they wish to progress.

Maybe with minor differences, so you would need to mix if u want to go for the absolute min max stats ^^

ArchivedUser

I agree with Steven here. Highest tier items should be a combination of both crafting and items dropped from difficult bosses. Also legendary gear should be significantly more difficult to obtain - and have better stats ofc.

ArchivedUser

Jokuc said:

I agree with Steven here. Highest tier items should be a combination of both crafting and items dropped from difficult bosses. Also legendary gear should be significantly more difficult to obtain - and have better stats ofc.

Some legendary items should be craftable. After all someone had to make the legendaries that drop or are found.

ArchivedUser

We cant give the crafters all the power over endgame equipment, but they should be at least be able to hold their own against raid gear, while Mastercrafters should be able to create gear that is a bit better then raid gear (of course with the required costly and rare materials, maybe even a once per month restriction)

ArchivedUser

Marzzo1337 said:

I do not only mean raid gear. Some games have 3-5 man dungeons as their hardest contents, some games have pvp. Since we probably will be able to get gear from PVP i regard the best gear to get from PVP as endgame gear. Raiding is Always Everything in endgame. Sometimes, endgame gear can also be found from quests in some games too. 

That Is why i say endgame instead of Raiding gear. 

Don't know why you think you will get gear from PVP actions? The only gear that drops from pvp is corrupted players that have hit that threshold, and that is something they have made a repeated, active choice to achieve. There is no separate pvp/pve gear statwise. They have said that from inception that stats on gear will function equally for both. Arenas will not have gear with stats as rewards, that was also confirmed as cosmetic only a long time ago.



No matter how much the full loot gankfest people may have been heartened by the first testing being a version of a BR, this is not what the MMO will be. Other titles that have been plagued with kill trading (WoW) and emperor swapping (ESO) will find that trying to game the pvp rewards systems will not garner them powerful "endgame" gear. They may get recipes and cosmetics out of jacking leaderboards, but actual gear drops will not happen.

ArchivedUser

As @UnknownSystemError has stated IS have said the Top tier gear will need both materials/components from raiding/and other high level participation  game play and a master craftsperson to create.  Everyone wins.  As a crafting enthusiast I cant wait for the crafting to be testable.  

ArchivedUser

I say it should be potentially better because we are always stuck in MMOs where our characters are always weaker than people of legend.

Let the players become legends by crafting gear more powerful than what exists in the world.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Marzzo1337 said:

I do not only mean raid gear. Some games have 3-5 man dungeons as their hardest contents, some games have pvp. Since we probably will be able to get gear from PVP i regard the best gear to get from PVP as endgame gear. Raiding is Always Everything in endgame. Sometimes, endgame gear can also be found from quests in some games too. 

That Is why i say endgame instead of Raiding gear. 

Don't know why you think you will get gear from PVP actions? The only gear that drops from pvp is corrupted players that have hit that threshold, and that is something they have made a repeated, active choice to achieve. There is no separate pvp/pve gear statwise. They have said that from inception that stats on gear will function equally for both. Arenas will not have gear with stats as rewards, that was also confirmed as cosmetic only a long time ago.



No matter how much the full loot gankfest people may have been heartened by the first testing being a version of a BR, this is not what the MMO will be. Other titles that have been plagued with kill trading (WoW) and emperor swapping (ESO) will find that trying to game the pvp rewards systems will not garner them powerful "endgame" gear. They may get recipes and cosmetics out of jacking leaderboards, but actual gear drops will not happen.

I don't think there are any statements that you can't gear from PVP activities? I also don't think I mentioned PVP stat specific gear? I just said that we will probably be able to obtain gear from doing PVP activities. Sure, they have not confirmed this, but they have also not denied this. 

Some people do not want to do PvE or craft, maybe they only want to do PVP. Tell me any reason why IS would not allow those people to get gear from PVP? 

ArchivedUser

I wouldnt mind if there was only crafted gear. Im kind of tired of seeing crafted items getting no love. In some games they dont really have any purpose. But Im glad to see that the crafted gear/weapons will be on par with its counter part.

ArchivedUser

Along with crafted gear being on par with endgame loot, I believe they have said that some of the materials to craft that high end gear will require crafting items harvested from end game content whether that means dropped by the boss or someone with a gathering professions physically harvesting the corpse of the boss(Dragonscales and such).

ArchivedUser

Marzzo1337 said:

I don't think there are any statements that you can't gear from PVP activities? I also don't think I mentioned PVP stat specific gear? I just said that we will probably be able to obtain gear from doing PVP activities. Sure, they have not confirmed this, but they have also not denied this. 

Some people do not want to do PvE or craft, maybe they only want to do PVP. Tell me any reason why IS would not allow those people to get gear from PVP?

We won't be looting combatants and non-combatants for gear.
We might get gear from successful caravan raids.
It's possible we could get gear or gear components from the objective-based challenges of sieges.

ArchivedUser

Crafters should be meaningful and the good news is we wont have RNG. A Guild with solid crafters should be able to compete with a pure PvP guild or even surpass a pure PvP guild. This is because there is only one set of stats for PvX and no PvP armour. Most high end crafted sets would take resources from Raids and Bosses so why wouldn't they be equal to items that drop off the Raids and Bosses - in effect they use drops from the Raids and Bosses. The only contention at this point is whether legendaries will be craftable or drops only. It depends on the lore behind the legendaries. If the Raid Armour is legendary armour we know craftable items will compete. If legendaries are a tier above Raid Armour we know craftable items will fall short of legendaries. Crafters often bolstered their faction in Dark Ages of Camelot and DAoC is still my favourite PvP MMO to date. I hope Ashes will surpass DAoC but we will see.

ArchivedUser

Arzosah said:

Along with crafted gear being on par with endgame loot, I believe they have said that some of the materials to craft that high end gear will require crafting items harvested from end game content whether that means dropped by the boss or someone with a gathering professions physically harvesting the corpse of the boss(Dragonscales and such).

This is how top tier crafting worked in Vanguard. You needed to go into the hardest raid instance in the game, the Ancient Port Warehouse, to get certain materials to craft the best items. It was no trivial task when an APW run could take several hours and only yield one or two mats.

It probably would have been quicker to just slay the boss mob known to drop what you need. But the cool thing is there were lots of other drops along the way so usually everyone  got a little something.

ArchivedUser

I would like to see a system where "gear" doesnt really drop at all, but rather materials that you can bring to a crafter that can then assemble the items.
Raid encounters should have unique materials that crafters can make the very best gear from.
For weapons, i would actually like if the weapons were in pieces like hilts, blades etc and you could combine them for different stats, but i could also see people finding exploits in that system.

ArchivedUser

I voted better than end game gear. I would also like to say end game gear should not be one configuration. Just as gear crafted in the game might have stat variations based on the proportion of ingredients, the crafter's skill.... and the quality of the ingredients.  The stats could vary a bit.

ArchivedUser

crafted gear in MMOs in usually worthless, it would nice if there where multiple ways to get the best gear.
I hate crafting so I raid, others might not like raiding so they craft.
I also hope there isn't one best two handed sword, that everyone needs and we end up with everyone looking the same because there is only one best in slot for each type of armour of weapon.
I hope they're hundreds of best items.

ArchivedUser

Crafted gear should be wholly dependent on the crafter's skill (and material grade if that becomes a thing). Baseline gear should be similar to regular drops with durability being a bit better and more control over appearance. A skilled crafter should be able to make dungeon quality gear. A master crafter should be able to make end game gear. However the crafter would have more control over the appearance and stats. Just make them costly (material-wise) to make so you don't flood the market.