Can we expect a hard MMO Game ?

ArchivedUser

from my perspective as a world of warcraft player from TBC i feel bad for mmos in general with the wrong paths they take with their games... so days a go i found this game and watched few videos about it and i find what i m looking for as a mmo... so i wanted to start joining the community with my thoughts and start some discussions.  
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what the most powerfull thing in mmo for most of the mmo players is how hard the game is...
leveling/grinding/farming items mounts.. and legendaries aswell 
so what everybody think about this ?

ArchivedUser

I don't think what you're describing is necessarily hard. You're just wanting an experience where you can slowly develop your character and feel rewarded as you cross certain milestones, which in today's mmo's simply lack that kind of player to character relationship. You're flooded with rewards with minimal effort and leads you to feel a lack of accomplishment. Older MMO's were a huge time investment, which didn't mean it was hard. But it allowed you to be more social, interact with other players to tackle obstacles, and allowed you to feel like you're playing a part of that world. I'm hoping this game will find a good balance between that sort of experience while innovating the gameplay and genre as a whole. And so far, it's looking good.

ArchivedUser

Zenjae said:

I don't think what you're describing is necessarily hard. You're just wanting an experience where you can slowly develop your character and feel rewarded as you cross certain milestones, which in today's mmo's simply lack that kind of player to character relationship. You're flooded with rewards with minimal effort and leads you to feel a lack of accomplishment. Older MMO's were a huge time investment, which didn't mean it was hard. But it allowed you to be more social, interact with other players to tackle obstacles, and allowed you to feel like you're playing a part of that world. I'm hoping this game will find a good balance between that sort of experience while innovating the gameplay and genre as a whole. And so far, it's looking good.

bro ur amazing that's what i mean exactly hope we find that experience  

ArchivedUser

I now how you feel Zenjae. I've played games that rewarded significant XP for walking ten meters and talking to an NPC.Generous rewards for effortless 'accomplishments' greatly diminishes the value of the game's progression system.

I certainly hope that AoC balances challenge and reward for its PvE game play. The fact that there zones will have a mix of challenges and mob difficulty gives me hope that AoC will get it right.

ArchivedUser

We only value things that we have to work to earn.

ArchivedUser

Like @Zenjae and @Nefelia said.

It doesnt matter how much we get, it depends on how we get it.

That is why dungeons in WoW Retail or TBC felt so much more rewarding. You couldnt just jump into dungeon finder and be ported there with a random group, where you dont even have to talk or communicate with other people. We had to walk there and communicate with everyone else in the group to manage pulls. 

IS has to find the middle between grinding and easy rewards. Make the mobs hard but not too hard. Give us smaller rewards between the quests and bigger rewards at the end of a questchain. If they do that, then they have the key to bring back MMORPG's.

ArchivedUser

Damokles said:

Like @Zenjae and @Nefelia said.

It doesnt matter how much we get, it depends on how we get it.

That is why dungeons in WoW Retail or TBC felt so much more rewarding. You couldnt just jump into dungeon finder and be ported there with a random group, where you dont even have to talk or communicate with other people. We had to walk there and communicate with everyone else in the group to manage pulls. 

IS has to find the middle between grinding and easy rewards. Make the mobs hard but not too hard. Give us smaller rewards between the quests and bigger rewards at the end of a questchain. If they do that, then they have the key to bring back MMORPG's.

yeah, that's the point ... it's good to give some feedback earlier than after the game release I don't want a complaining community like wow now so otherwise, I like what u saying and ur idea about the old mmo's system

ArchivedUser

ZicroQue said:

Damokles said:

Like @Zenjae and @Nefelia said.

It doesnt matter how much we get, it depends on how we get it.

That is why dungeons in WoW Retail or TBC felt so much more rewarding. You couldnt just jump into dungeon finder and be ported there with a random group, where you dont even have to talk or communicate with other people. We had to walk there and communicate with everyone else in the group to manage pulls. 

IS has to find the middle between grinding and easy rewards. Make the mobs hard but not too hard. Give us smaller rewards between the quests and bigger rewards at the end of a questchain. If they do that, then they have the key to bring back MMORPG's.

yeah, that's the point ... it's good to give some feedback earlier than after the game release I don't want a complaining community like wow now so otherwise, I like what u saying and ur idea about the old mmo's system

There will be complainers because a lot of people don't read the Wiki and try to argue moot points to the death and when one tries to provide up to date quotes they still try to argue moot points. A lot of hype and a lot of disappoint will come no matter what we get or are told we will get lol

ArchivedUser

Well considering that there will be no "level zones" and open world pvp it will be in a sense plenty hard for some people.

ArchivedUser

Damokles said:

That is why dungeons in WoW Retail or TBC felt so much more rewarding. You couldnt just jump into dungeon finder and be ported there with a random group, where you dont even have to talk or communicate with other people. We had to walk there and communicate with everyone else in the group to manage pulls.

No, it only made it feeling more frustrating and grindy.

The time makes old things looks better than they was, but in reality, if players would need to walk a half continent, after wasting half hour to get 5man together, just to run a dungeon, they would quickly leave.

It was more rewarding trough... in classic/tbc there wasn't free gear for everyone... and since dungeons was a pain in the ass to do, the hard earned gear actually had value.

Nowdays, epic gear isn't really epic... it's common as everyone wears epic. Heck, they even gave legendary for basically free to everyone in the process of leave no noob behind...

Also the dungeons was harder too.

ArchivedUser

The problem is that Dungeons start off hard then the vast majority of players cant do them so the devs decide to weaken the Dungeons or boost gear acquisition then the dungeons get so weak everyone can do them and the hardcore and skilled players leave. So then the cycle repeats and the new hardcore and skilled players leave. In the end what is left is a shell of what once was a solid structure that catered to everyone.

ArchivedUser

Not all players will be doing all dungeons. Content that appears is server/node/situation specific. Some players on the same server may never see a dungeon that opened then closed during a specific nodes development because they were on the other side of the map doing their own thing. No lfg or fast travel. On the other hand, if you don't know that SugarPlum Node unlocked RockCandy Mountain, you aren't really missing out. People need to shed their preconceived notions of gear progression from other themepark mmos and embrace the themebox.

ArchivedUser

For leveling they say here (https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling) that the developers anticipate max level to be attainable in approximately 45 days.

That's a lot better then wow for example.

ArchivedUser

The intrepid team appear to be very anti grind for grinds sake.

The fact that the world will be reactive and provide fresh content regularly should hopefully keep our brains and characters regularly provided with new challenges to overcome, hopefully for years after we've hit 'max level'.

ArchivedUser

One thing I hope.

No one player going into an enemy npc camp all by themselves and wiping the place out even though they're completely outnumbered.

Scout troop, I can see that. Wandering Patrol, hard and challenging but doable to a skilled player. Enemy village full of armed and armored enemies, spell casters and healers? No.

Dungeons shouldn't be the only multiplayer experience.

ArchivedUser

 I am a work hard working guy who wants things others may not want to work for . (crafting for me is one of those vehicles to accomplish this) A good game is......ALL ABOUT THE JOURNEY....and.....CONTINUING TO HAVE FUN.....when you have reached the current end of the game.

 A good game makes that journey....NOT A GRIND...but unending discovery,along with a sense of accomplishment....until the next expansion....until the next siege etc etc.

ArchivedUser

I always find people can make games as hard or as easy as they want. even if that game is hard e,g the are billions there will always be walkaround or easy ways, the same is done with easy games. 

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

I always find people can make games as hard or as easy as they want. even if that game is hard e,g the are billions there will always be walkaround or easy ways, the same is done with easy games. 

There is but one solution if a game is hard and that is . GIT. GUD.

ArchivedUser

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

I always find people can make games as hard or as easy as they want. even if that game is hard e,g the are billions there will always be walkaround or easy ways, the same is done with easy games. 

There is but one solution if a game is hard and that is . GIT. GUD.

play they are billions then come back to me ^^

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

AutumnLeaf said:

nagash said:

I always find people can make games as hard or as easy as they want. even if that game is hard e,g the are billions there will always be walkaround or easy ways, the same is done with easy games. 

There is but one solution if a game is hard and that is . GIT. GUD.

play they are billions then come back to me ^^

But that teaches us only to start preaching, when the zombies come from every direction?!?