Regarding the combat seen in Alpha 1

ArchivedUser

In Yesterday’s livestream we were presented with some new footage.

And there were some minor things that stood out to me, and it pulled me away from the suspension of disbelief, which is why I thought it was necessary to address.

 

I understand this is my own point of view and I understand we are still in Alpha 1, but that is also where we can implement changes and should address concerns.

 

1. Combat appears to be "overdramatic"
When using 1-handed weapons I find this to be best visible. Unfortunately, due to - in my opinion - too much movement in each swing, it appears to be more flailing with a weapon rather than actual fighting. It makes animations looks a bit like desperate flailing rather than skilled precision strikes, using the least amount of effort for the biggest possible impact. I imagine we are already Heroes that knows how to swordfight as soon as the game starts out, which is why I find it out of place.

 

2. Lacking the feeling of weight in the combat.

Heavy weapons like the great sword and Halberdiers appears to be wielded with too much ease and the animations are a tad too quick.

 

If you could see that the character required strength to wield it; if you could see he got weighted down by it, it would give me more immersion.

 

A slower animation with build up momentum would give the illusion of bigger impact.

 

3. Weapons appear to be a bit too big.

We have of course only seen the weapons on one race, so if the same weapon scaling was used on Tulnar or dwarves, I cannot say if it would look out of place. But I find the weapons on humans a bit too big and unrealistic. Also, it is more apparent on swords and great swords, but the weapons appear very broad. It makes some weapons look non-wieldable.

 

4. Colour palette.

In yesterday’s video I found it very apparent, but it might be because I have not played it enough yet... But I found the colour palette used in the different spells to be too wide. I would like to see more consistency in the different spells in regard to which colours are used for what.

 

These are all somewhat minor things, but for me at least, it would make a world of difference if it was changed.

Thanks for taking your time and reading this!

 

Cheers,

Hjerim

 

 

 

ArchivedUser

You are right to have concerns and post your thought in a constructive way and I do agree melee combat just seems to be a lot of flailing about with little impact. While the BR is supposed to be testing the action side of combat and I guess it is the true combat system is still months away in alpha1 phase2 when both action and tab are to be formed into one system. We know that action will be slowed somewhat from its current frenetic pace in the BR, animations will be worked on all we can do as a community is provide constructive feedback and hope they listen.

But it does not matter how they blend action and tab the combat system they settle on it will never make everyone happy and many toys will be thrown from respective cots.


As for myself, combat is just one the system's that go into making MMO's and it's more than just combat that makes these games fun and long-lasting.

 

ArchivedUser

Varkun said:

We know that action will be slowed somewhat from its current frenetic pace in the BR, animations will be worked on

 

I just want to point out that combat may be slowed by the fact that in the MMO we'll have more than 100 HPs. At present some weapons in the BR do more than 100 Damage such as the Miasma Bow. If earlier videos are anything to go by we may be looking at an increase to 1700 health or more. While the largest damage i've seen in earlier videos equates to 300-600 damage. While this is all subject to change it will certainly change the pace without any animations being worked on.

ArchivedUser

I agree with most of the OP's points. Combat is very "alpha" right now. Lots of fine tuning hit boxes, weapon lengths and speed still. I'm hoping also to get rid of the colorful hues when weapons are on the ground. 

ArchivedUser

Not sure time to kill is what we are talking about, it's more about the flailing nature of the melee combat animations and how they don't have any real impact or feeling of weight within the animations. This will no doubt change as animations are changed and refined.
Has been said numerous times that time to kill will increase more in line with MMO expectations once we get into testing the MMO. Perhaps I am wrong and the reference was not about slowing the animations down and making things seem a bit more realistic. But if people want animations that look like a frog in a blender then so be it personally I am here for so much more than a combat system.

ArchivedUser

Action combat always looks like shit whenever i see it implemented. The reason for this is because they do not replicate reality and they add glorified embellishment everywhere. I was attracted to Ashes due to the Hybrid system and the combo bar they originally had but they have since removed the combo bar. If the Hybrid system ends up like Bless Online or the action combat isn't brought into check it will be a death nail for the game. The current iterations are too flashy and they are close to turning into Black Desert Online who use particles to hide combat. I will know more when Horde mode is established. The AI in older videos is very simplistic and the boss fight is also very simplistic. Of course these are old videos and we will see updates next week on the live stream but there are far more pressing concerns than over zealous weapon swings. The whole system needs to be tweaked.

ArchivedUser

Abasole, interesting point of view. I actually played Black Desert and the only thing that kept me in the game was the combat. I really enjoyed the combat because it was fun and challenging, and I know it was the same thing that kept my guildies in the game for so long.

But yes, I do believe Intrepid stated that animations would be something they would polish in the end. But I think it does not hurt to tell them what we like and dislike about the current state.

ArchivedUser

Yes normally i wouldn't discuss the combat because it is in constant flux. However if we constantly do not talk about the combat then the combat may become static and remain in a poor shape. BDO combat was all hype and no substance. Even with the combo moves which could be macro'd. It was just a cash grab game with no end game content. Just grind to top level and pvp while having to RNG. It is a horrid Eastern Game and although i got to level 50 there was nothing to hold me. Ashes ticks all the boxes in theory but we wait to see what the final iteration will be. Until I've seen the Hybrid system and how the statistics will be dealt with all i am left with is the abysmal combat that is the BR.

ArchivedUser

I’m with Abasole. I hated BDO’s combat, it’s possibly the worst I’ve ever done in an MMO.  And I’ve played dozens of them since ‘99.  I get that some people loved it but memorizing combos of keys like I’m playing Street Fighter 2 is not what I’m looking for in an MMORPG.

ArchivedUser

Yeah there is a lot to be worked on but overall I think a large color palette for spells is great, I never liked the mundane 1-3 color spells in most games, magic is supposed to be flashy and in my opinion sometimes dynamic, not standing in one place casting the same spell with different visuals.

ArchivedUser

Many fantasy games have the typical paddle-swords. They have/want to fit as much detail and/or animations on the weapon as possible (at least for higher tier weapons) and that leads them most of the time to oversize swords. (see Skyrim)

ArchivedUser

I love the size of the weapons, especially the 2 handed swords. I feel like they got the perfect size. It's a little big so they stand out but not to the extreme of games like monster hunter and wow.

ArchivedUser

McStackerson said:

I love the size of the weapons, especially the 2 handed swords. I feel like they got the perfect size. It's a little big so they stand out but not to the extreme of games like monster hunter and wow.

The great mace also looks really good

ArchivedUser

McStackerson said:

I love the size of the weapons, especially the 2 handed swords. I feel like they got the perfect size. It's a little big so they stand out but not to the extreme of games like monster hunter and wow.

I agree. The size of the weapons is good. 

And i like most of the weapon animations. Yes they need to be worked on, but they have a year time for that and they are not that bad.

Only the swinging of one handed weapons (sword, mace) looks ridiculous. Like uncontrolled flailing combined with weird body movements.

ArchivedUser

I have to say that they did a really good job with spears and polearms^^
Always loved them and they gave them a good amount of flair. ;D

ArchivedUser

I can agree with op and to add another concern, I really hope they will give us a slider to minimize spell flashiness or atleast take it into account in balancing as visual obstruction.
It's one of the things Im deeply afraid of, would just prefer to see an arrow with minimal effects to recognise different abilities. Not a screen of mushed colours.


What I would like to take from BDO combat is skill movements,
being able to control the direction of some skills with wasd makes the combat feel very free for melee classes.
Controlled skills give some feeling of weight to the skills through use of momentum and reduces the feeling of flailing weapons, as the direction and manner of each attack is decided by you.


@Atama For me BDO keys werent a big draw because I had accustomed to WoW arena keybinds. All keys near wasd were in use with mods and macros.
Though, after getting used to BDO even WoW started to feel a bit flaily as a warrior and dk and thus had to reroll to a mage.