Rushing to End Game....Is it a problem?

EDIT: This post isn't directed solely to Ashes of Creation. It's more of a generalized discussion on games as a whole.

Good evening all! I wanted to get the communities opinion on the topic of Rushing to End Game.

For as long as I can remember I have, the last 10 years at a minimum, started a game with friends and rushed towards the "end game." Star Wars: The Old Republic, Final Fantasy XIV: ARR/Heavensward, Grim Dawn, Torchlight 2, Destiny 2, Anthem, and most recently The Elder Scrolls Online. All of these games were great games, and I looked forward to their release. My issue is that aside from being fun, I didn't pay much attention to the story or lore unless it was a main story mission that caught my attention. The Mass Effect and Dragon Age series are well known for great story, and when I played those, I took my time to enjoy them and understand what I was partaking in.

So my question to all of you is this; Do you have the same issue? And if you do is it a problem with us, the game, or the idea that the game is only fun at the "end game?" So much time and effort goes into making great stories and lore for these games, but I find myself just clicking through the dialog to finish the quest and move on to the next thing.

I'm hoping that I can not do that with Ashes and enjoy the world they are creating for us.

Thanks for your time!

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Azathoth

No end game! Go Ashes!
#stoptheendgameBS

Jahlon

You can try to rush to end game.

But since the end game only appears as the world is developed, you are going to be rushing out of the gate and fall flat on your face in about 9 seconds.

No nodes? No Dungeons
No Nodes? No Crafting
No nodes? No Raids

First nodes = first dungeons

Nodes upgrade = Dungeon Bosses and their mechanics change

grisu

There are different kinds of games and different kinds of gamers. Anthem and Destiny are 2 games that, in my opinion have absolutly no need for a leveling phase and rushing through the leveling is more a "getting used to the mechanics of the game".
That said, if you have it then no need doesn't equal unimportant and I think that rush that developed over the last 15 years or so is just a reflection of the attitude developers take to leveling. It's a fucking time sink, nothing more, filled with the absolut minimum to even count as content. The last years especially are an absolut dumpster fire to that metholodgy.

Imo, especially for an MMO the leveling journey is the first step to come to love the game. If it's just an afterthought then by the time that I get to "endgame" I'm already looking at the game way more critical.
The leveling introduces me to the world and it's quirks. If it's just generic bull then why would the rest be any better?
I doubt I ever invested any time in reading wow's quest in classic or burning crusade, but the way they introduced me to the world, the magic, it's inhabitants, the ecosystem. It all made sense, it all felt like it had a reason it existed the way it did. It was still a time sink, no questions asked, but it was an enjoyable timesink in which you constantly learned new things.

So yeah I understand why people rush through, but I wish it wasn't so.

sojourn85

jahlon wrote: »

You can try to rush to end game.

But since the end game only appears as the world is developed, you are going to be rushing out of the gate and fall flat on your face in about 9 seconds.

No nodes? No Dungeons
No Nodes? No Crafting
No nodes? No Raids

First nodes = first dungeons

Nodes upgrade = Dungeon Bosses and their mechanics change

The Node system gives me hope, but I was also speaking generally about games as a whole. Aside from AoC, what are your thoughts on rushing to end game?

aevari

Personally, I don't like to rush towards endgame, I like to take my time and really enjoy the game,lore and world. And more importantly, have lots of things to do still while I'm waiting for new updates/expansions

If you want to do that, then go for it. It is ultimately your decision.

sojourn85

aevari wrote: »

Personally, I don't like to rush towards endgame, I like to take my time and really enjoy the game,lore and world. And more importantly, have lots of things to do still while I'm waiting for new updates/expansions

If you want to do that, then go for it. It is ultimately your decision.

That's true. but I was hoping to get insight other than it's your decision. Do you think it's game design, poor story, or is it purely the person making the choice to skip all the content? A perfect example from me is yesterday my uncle and I were leveling in ESO. We're both beginners, and out of habit I just skip through quest dialog and go where I need to, etc. My uncle was like, "Can we take our time and actually read what we are doing?" It's not that I don't want to, it's just become a habit to rush through things because I've been conditioned/brainwashed into thinking the end game is where the fun is.

Azathoth

In general its a play style and one people enjoy. I compare it to players that min/max or love to grief. I don't get it, it's not my style, but it for sure has a community.

I would prefer slow progression even as a casual. My only real problem with end game 'rushers' is they are usually the first ones that make noise about needing new content.

Devorandom

I agree with Johlon that nodes will really slow down progression as well as the fact that the devs basically said there will be no end game in the traditional sense. The only reason there is a rush to end game in the first place is that all the relevant content is there and nothing during the leveling process really matters. AoC won't do that if the devs pull off what they say they want to.

voidshadow

Steven doesn't like "end game". And as i see it, end game in ashes is server supremacy which will require mass coordination to achieve. Sure you have high level dungeons and a narrative to follow, but conflict is the biggest gear driving ashes as i see it and thus end game is a term that remains sort of undefined in ashes.

Kinda like China's warring states or pre three kingdoms period. You fight whoever to make yourself bigger and when someone gets too big, you bring them down a notch. Rinse and repeat. Just a global scale slugfest is the end game in Ashes. Unless i'm wrong of course, then feel free to correct me

Rem_

Sojourn85 wrote: »

EDIT: This post isn't directed solely to Ashes of Creation. It's more of a generalized discussion on games as a whole.

Good evening all! I wanted to get the communities opinion on the topic of Rushing to End Game.

For as long as I can remember I have, the last 10 years at a minimum, started a game with friends and rushed towards the "end game." Star Wars: The Old Republic, Final Fantasy XIV: ARR/Heavensward, Grim Dawn, Torchlight 2, Destiny 2, Anthem, and most recently The Elder Scrolls Online. All of these games were great games, and I looked forward to their release. My issue is that aside from being fun, I didn't pay much attention to the story or lore unless it was a main story mission that caught my attention. The Mass Effect and Dragon Age series are well known for great story, and when I played those, I took my time to enjoy them and understand what I was partaking in.

So my question to all of you is this; Do you have the same issue? And if you do is it a problem with us, the game, or the idea that the game is only fun at the "end game?" So much time and effort goes into making great stories and lore for these games, but I find myself just clicking through the dialog to finish the quest and move on to the next thing.

I'm hoping that I can not do that with Ashes and enjoy the world they are creating for us.

Thanks for your time!

I haven't played an MMO myself, Ashes will be my first.

Looking at it from an outside view, I feel like rushing to end game is terrible. Most likely the rush is because early and mid game are terrible..? If that's so, when new players join they'll be instantly turned off the by terrible and old things offered. By being turned off, they won't even be able to see the end game anyway.

I feel like a game should definitely be more then just the end, obviously people will get to max level or whatever it is in MMOs (I think they have a cap? but I've seen ones without caps)

The early and mid game should be important, not stale bland, old and untouched. First impressions are a LOT. I tried WoW one single time, and loaded in to having to just click on some boars or something and watch my guy just automatically hit them. It felt mind numbingly boring, both because the combat was tab-targeting and because I did nothing at all, just clicked some quest accepted and clicked onto the enemy.

So... I feel like rushing to end game is absolutely terrible for a game! ^-^

ArgentDawn

Typically in competative games I rush to "end game" or at least a part of the game that I can start to get some of the strongest gear. Open world games tend to get me to gear quickly so I can hold my own against people in the world and be able to quickly participate in new content. I like to be one of the first to see new content and go in without any spoilers. That's why I rush.

RexEasily

I never rush.i pay to enjoy the game and explore every square inch. Ive been playing FFXIV for 3 years and literally just started the first expansion Heavensward a few weeks ago. I have storm blood and the new shadowbringes pre-ordered.. but i doubt ill be playing Shadowbringers until Fall or next spring. I take the same approach with ESO and every rpg or MMO i play.

why rush... sit back and enjoy the story. You'll get to end game soon enough.

GrinningJack

Its an mmorpg XD YES RUSH TO MAX LEVEL u just miss half the game :P

Jahlon

I think then the "rushing to end game" issue becomes what is the point of the game.

If the point of the game is something like WoW where the game is literally an endless cycle of get to end level, clear hardest dungeons, farm best gear, wash, rinse, repeat, then yes you have designed a system where people are going to race to end game.

If the point of the game is like Archeage where supposedly there is good PvP to be had at the end game, then people of course want the best PvP so they rush to get the best gear and the highest level.

Unless your game has good entertainment value, then no people aren't going to take their time getting there. Personally I think FFXIV and SW:TOR have done the "entertainment" piece very well. I've never felt rushed to get to end game.

In a game will full cut scenes, I take my time getting through them. Yes, I'd prefer to have other people who want to watch the cut scenes as well, because I enjoy seeing them. IF people want to be in a rush, well they can wait.

T Elf

I'm a journey type, I want to explore and see it all. To me, if you rush to end game you have missed most of what the world has to offer and the why and how of it all. Those that rush to end game get the gear, clear the dungeon, and rant and rave about not enough content. It drives me crazy as I'm sure it does the developers.

WizardTim

IMO the End Game is... the end...

Once a character stops being able to progress and grow, it's hard for me to be enthusiastic about playing that character. Gear means nothing to me, clearing dungeons never really gave me a thrill. I have more fun in random PUGs leveling than I do in messy complicated raids that some group slapped together out of desperation.

I don't necessarily take my time, because I enjoy the story content and want to grow as a player and as a character, but at the same time I don't like hitting max level and being bored whenever I log into that character and feel like I have to do chores in the form of dailies. PvP is a potential thing to do but even that gets old and feels cheap when the DEVs have to offer up a carrot in the form of gear and trinkets just to keep me interested.

Damokles

I think you should always take your time to level up.

It is okay to rush of course, but it wont be the same when you go through it all with your alt.
My first level playthrough is always slow and i go to EVERY corner of the world, find treasure chests, do all the side quests, make notes on how to level more efficiently etc.
Then I have all the information if i want to boost through the zones, get every treasure chest, know what quests give the most exp and how long each quest will take, I know the ways to the questzones (especially in AoC where we most likely will not have any quest markers like in wow) ;D

Azryil

I don't think rushing to end game is on it's own a bad thing. However when a game incentives it by not having any engaging content during the leveling process, that's when there are problems.

Makinoji

Everyone defines the End Game differently just as they define p2w differently.
I say you find your end game and go for it, whatever it may be.
My end game will be exploration. However, that won't mean the game ends for me it just means I need to find another goal and reach it.

As for the subject of rushing, if that's how you want to play then, by all means, do so.

mcstackerson

I don't think rushing through content is a problem as much as having to invest so much time into the game before you can start playing with friends. I have a couple friends who have never been able to join us in MMOs because of the level grind.

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