Will There Be Another Backer Period?

2

Comments

  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    In addition to complaints from backers, there will be complaints from those that can't afford the new backer tiers. Also, all the claims of being sell outs or a cash grab.

    Seems like it would generate more issues that not. But I am an early backer, so i am obviously biased. If I were not an early backer, I too would likely want the chance.
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    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • skafftarussskafftaruss Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    If this mentality doesn't change, I am hesitant to upgrade my membership as a closed MMO society. We should embrace expansion - I don't understand @azathoth. Please elaborate as I am ignorant here. Many thanks.
  • JahlonJahlon Member
    edited May 1
    But you can still back into Alpha 2 / Beta 1 / Beta 2 from the webpage?

    So, how are they not already providing this opportunity?

    As far a free Beta 2 period, that won't happen because it doesn't need to happen. They have over 40,000 backers with Beta 2 or higher access.

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  • skafftarussskafftaruss Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    edited May 1
    J. Following up on this YouTube video under ashes of creation. If you understand our passion for MMO - can someone debunk this post (see below)? It basically says, backers got their RANGER Tab, and we are the gate keepers for outsiders to get theirs. I beseech you to put this to rest. Are potential new players being shut out? Again, thank you. I take people at face value.
  • I don't see how buying in early = gatekeeping. I mean I don't feel left out because I didn't have the money and missed earlier cosmetics before I could buy one of the pre-order packs.

    Exclusives should remain exclusive for the people that got in early. They are only skins, your not getting any items, so things like those caravan skins mean nothing if you don't actually have caravans to skin. Same goes with the mount skins, you don't get mounts, you have to get a mount then apply the skin.

    Since they aren't hard items I don't think anyone should really feel like there is any power disparity, and yes it sucks missing out on a cosmetic you might have wanted, but that is the nature of backing something early or not being able to do so. If they went back and retro-actively brought things back now, then when the game launches there will be people complaining that they didn't know about the game, or didn't have the money, or wanted to wait till it came out, and since Ashes brought these items back once they should do it again.

    Then we find ourselves in a cycle of entitlement and it ends up just going bad for everyone. Backers don't feel they got anything special and wonder why they spent the money, the new people get limited retro items, but not all items and still feel some how shorted, and everything collapses.

    Since they decided skins and cosmetics were going to be limited they need to stick with that, its not gate keeping, its just not going back on what they were very clear about the limited availability of these skins.
  • JahlonJahlon Member
    J. Following up on this YouTube video under ashes of creation. If you understand our passion for MMO - can someone debunk this post (see below)? It basically says, backers got their RANGER Tab, and we are the gate keepers for outsiders to get theirs. I beseech you to put this to rest. Are potential new players being shut out? Again, thank you. I take people at face value.

    No, new players are not being shut out.

    There is nothing in any of the packs except Headstart (which you can simply not play on a headstart server) and cosmetics.

    Even the cosmetics will have similar items available in game.
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  • beyabeya Member
    Greetings. I propose to Steven & Intrepid, that there be a late backer period up to Explorer / Settler with a Beta 2 Key in the near future.

    PROS: Test the Beta 2 system without a 'freebie' period along with increased stress on the system with like minded backers. Secondly, invite folks that somehow missed the opportunity (I know of two IT techies in Norfolk that wanted to get in on AOC but missed the time stamp). Plus, none of the previous skins ... and retro-active stuff. Let's increase our base.

    CONS: Complaining by backers (that is fine). Post below the why and not please. Gracias. Skaff.

    I personally like this idea due to the fact that I didn't even hear about Ashes until after the Kickstarter and summer thing they had. I'd really like the opportunity! Thanks for sharing this idea! **HUGS**
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    This is mad. If this happened there would be huge community backlash along the lines of my.com.
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Braver of Worlds
    I honestly don't see much of a reason for it with beta packs already being offered on the store. In conjunction with the usual community outrage I think this would wind up creating drama for absolutely no reason.

    And correct me if I'm wrong but I do remember Steven mentioning the possibility of an open beta towards the end of developement?
  • WololoWololo Member, Leader of Men
    Here we go again
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  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    @Skafftaruss, I don't think that opening up new backing opportunities in addition to the ones currently available will help with expansion. Some might jump on board, but the turn out for the Summer Backers was much smaller than anticipated last I heard.

    I'm not sure what mentality you think needs to change.
    Do you think that KS/Summer Backers need to consider their early pledges to the game in a lesser regard so that new players can back the game? I'm not sure about every KS ever, but most KS projects I have funded have never gone back to crowd funding. They just start selling the product.

    Also, if I choose to buy in early under the context there won't be future buy in options I have the right to feel upset if future buy in options occur. I wasn't given the chance to save up for one, I was one of the lucky ones that happened to have extra money and know about the game during KS. So IS going back on their no more backer funding might encourage newer players, but at the same time older pledges might feel a burn.

    You're a Phoenix Initiative/Royal backer, and you are hesitant to upgrade your membership? I completely understand, if I had already paid that much for a game that wasn't out I would probably not want to spend much more. However, if your sole reason for not upgrading is because some members on the forum would complain that is your right.

    What I do know is that there are forum members that believe the monthly cosmetics equal a cash grab (at least there once was and will likely be again). The same can be said for their buy in package bundles they have out now, some claim that is seen as a cash grab. So opening up new crowd source funding options seems like it would generate the same type of complaints.

    If you want the game to expand, there are many options available to members that would allow them to "spread the word" of Ashes. Sorry, I am not seeing how my mentality is keeping others from buying pre-order bundles or learning of Ashes.
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    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • beardobeardo Member
    The only thing that I see being a problem is the 2 day headstart. It’s going to be so vacant and pointless that anyone streaming will make the first look at the game look completely boring. Especially if the turnout is like that of BR (back when it was an exciting test and not Apoc) they still had trouble filling ques. Then add multiple servers to the mix and spread out those players it will just be empty boring gameplay.. I think that the 2 day headstart should be tacked on to the packs and just open up nodes with the headstart. It makes a lot more sense and there won’t be a reason to have a non-node gamemode. Yeh it sucks for backers to get that exclusiveness taken away but it also makes the 2 day headstart more interesting.
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    @beardo I think a major issue with head start servers with active nodes is the pay to win aspect of paying more to get into the game before actual release.
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    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    This idea is bad and you should feel bad
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  • VirtekVirtek Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Azathoth wrote: »
    @beardo I think a major issue with head start servers with active nodes is the pay to win aspect of paying more to get into the game before actual release.

    Steven and the Intrepid team are fiercely against pay to win. Head start is the closest thing to it, and even that is not so serious:
    It's been clarified that node progress is going to be turned off during the head start period. The head start servers are also going to be flagged so that people without head start can avoid them if they wish.
    Nothing to worry about, there. =)
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  • LyiatLyiat Member, Braver of Worlds
    Azathoth wrote: »
    @beardo I think a major issue with head start servers with active nodes is the pay to win aspect of paying more to get into the game before actual release.

    It's standard practice across virtually all MMO's these days that a starter package comes with limited early access. We're not talking about a week or two here, we're talking about two days, which will only present a small level and gear advantage. We won't be even able to level a node past level 2 by that time, judging by what's been said by the devs. Two days won't make any difference in the long run given the mechanics involved.

    Fact of the matter is, Intrepid Studios can't open these rewards back up. They were limited time exclusives, and as they've said themselves there are legal issues with allowing people to purchase them past the time limit. I believe it may have to do with their contract with Kickstarter. That's why the Summer backer sales had different rewards.
  • JahlonJahlon Member
    BraneGames wrote: »
    I honestly don't see much of a reason for it with beta packs already being offered on the store. In conjunction with the usual community outrage I think this would wind up creating drama for absolutely no reason.

    And correct me if I'm wrong but I do remember Steven mentioning the possibility of an open beta towards the end of developement?

    No, no open Beta has ever been discussed
    beardo wrote: »
    The only thing that I see being a problem is the 2 day headstart. It’s going to be so vacant and pointless that anyone streaming will make the first look at the game look completely boring. Especially if the turnout is like that of BR (back when it was an exciting test and not Apoc) they still had trouble filling ques. Then add multiple servers to the mix and spread out those players it will just be empty boring gameplay.. I think that the 2 day headstart should be tacked on to the packs and just open up nodes with the headstart. It makes a lot more sense and there won’t be a reason to have a non-node gamemode. Yeh it sucks for backers to get that exclusiveness taken away but it also makes the 2 day headstart more interesting.

    Plus the node development isn't even turned on during HeadStart
    Lyiat wrote: »
    Azathoth wrote: »
    @beardo I think a major issue with head start servers with active nodes is the pay to win aspect of paying more to get into the game before actual release.

    It's standard practice across virtually all MMO's these days that a starter package comes with limited early access. We're not talking about a week or two here, we're talking about two days, which will only present a small level and gear advantage. We won't be even able to level a node past level 2 by that time, judging by what's been said by the devs. Two days won't make any difference in the long run given the mechanics involved.

    Fact of the matter is, Intrepid Studios can't open these rewards back up. They were limited time exclusives, and as they've said themselves there are legal issues with allowing people to purchase them past the time limit. I believe it may have to do with their contract with Kickstarter. That's why the Summer backer sales had different rewards.

    Won't be able to level a Node at all
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  • LyiatLyiat Member, Braver of Worlds
    Jahlon wrote: »
    BraneGames wrote: »
    I honestly don't see much of a reason for it with beta packs already being offered on the store. In conjunction with the usual community outrage I think this would wind up creating drama for absolutely no reason.

    And correct me if I'm wrong but I do remember Steven mentioning the possibility of an open beta towards the end of developement?

    No, no open Beta has ever been discussed
    beardo wrote: »
    The only thing that I see being a problem is the 2 day headstart. It’s going to be so vacant and pointless that anyone streaming will make the first look at the game look completely boring. Especially if the turnout is like that of BR (back when it was an exciting test and not Apoc) they still had trouble filling ques. Then add multiple servers to the mix and spread out those players it will just be empty boring gameplay.. I think that the 2 day headstart should be tacked on to the packs and just open up nodes with the headstart. It makes a lot more sense and there won’t be a reason to have a non-node gamemode. Yeh it sucks for backers to get that exclusiveness taken away but it also makes the 2 day headstart more interesting.

    Plus the node development isn't even turned on during HeadStart
    Lyiat wrote: »
    Azathoth wrote: »
    @beardo I think a major issue with head start servers with active nodes is the pay to win aspect of paying more to get into the game before actual release.

    It's standard practice across virtually all MMO's these days that a starter package comes with limited early access. We're not talking about a week or two here, we're talking about two days, which will only present a small level and gear advantage. We won't be even able to level a node past level 2 by that time, judging by what's been said by the devs. Two days won't make any difference in the long run given the mechanics involved.

    Fact of the matter is, Intrepid Studios can't open these rewards back up. They were limited time exclusives, and as they've said themselves there are legal issues with allowing people to purchase them past the time limit. I believe it may have to do with their contract with Kickstarter. That's why the Summer backer sales had different rewards.

    Won't be able to level a Node at all

    Assuming node development wasn't disabled.
  • grisugrisu Member
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    I can be a life devouring nightmare. Zekece#1819
  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Braver of Worlds
    Jahlon wrote: »
    BraneGames wrote: »
    I honestly don't see much of a reason for it with beta packs already being offered on the store. In conjunction with the usual community outrage I think this would wind up creating drama for absolutely no reason.

    And correct me if I'm wrong but I do remember Steven mentioning the possibility of an open beta towards the end of developement?

    No, no open Beta has ever been discussed
    beardo wrote: »
    The only thing that I see being a problem is the 2 day headstart. It’s going to be so vacant and pointless that anyone streaming will make the first look at the game look completely boring. Especially if the turnout is like that of BR (back when it was an exciting test and not Apoc) they still had trouble filling ques. Then add multiple servers to the mix and spread out those players it will just be empty boring gameplay.. I think that the 2 day headstart should be tacked on to the packs and just open up nodes with the headstart. It makes a lot more sense and there won’t be a reason to have a non-node gamemode. Yeh it sucks for backers to get that exclusiveness taken away but it also makes the 2 day headstart more interesting.

    Plus the node development isn't even turned on during HeadStart
    Lyiat wrote: »
    Azathoth wrote: »
    @beardo I think a major issue with head start servers with active nodes is the pay to win aspect of paying more to get into the game before actual release.

    It's standard practice across virtually all MMO's these days that a starter package comes with limited early access. We're not talking about a week or two here, we're talking about two days, which will only present a small level and gear advantage. We won't be even able to level a node past level 2 by that time, judging by what's been said by the devs. Two days won't make any difference in the long run given the mechanics involved.

    Fact of the matter is, Intrepid Studios can't open these rewards back up. They were limited time exclusives, and as they've said themselves there are legal issues with allowing people to purchase them past the time limit. I believe it may have to do with their contract with Kickstarter. That's why the Summer backer sales had different rewards.

    Won't be able to level a Node at all

    Ah my bad then
  • JahlonJahlon Member
    BraneGames wrote: »

    Ah my bad then

    All good.

    Some of us are busying studying for school.

    Some of us do nothing but study Ashes all day.

    :)


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  • tarrostarros Member
    edited May 1
    Can I be special and be offered backers status since I have been paying attention and following this game for some time. Right before summer backers came around I was here. Can I have that opportunity again? Much love!! <3 <3<3<3<3<3<3

    Also I don't like the current things is the shop! Stupid otter mount and wannabe moana skins..... just saying.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    tarros wrote: »
    Can I be special and be offered backers status since I have been paying attention and following this game for some time. Right before summer backers came around I was here. Can I have that opportunity again? Much love!! <3 <3<3<3<3<3<3

    Also I don't like the current things is the shop! Stupid otter mount and wannabe moana skins..... just saying.

    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • tarrostarros Member
    Nagash wrote: »
    tarros wrote: »
    Can I be special and be offered backers status since I have been paying attention and following this game for some time. Right before summer backers came around I was here. Can I have that opportunity again? Much love!! <3 <3<3<3<3<3<3

    Also I don't like the current things is the shop! Stupid otter mount and wannabe moana skins..... just saying.


    I will give you all the corpses you want. I think this is a fair exchange?
  • sylsyl Member
    edited May 1
    tarros wrote: »
    Can I be special and be offered backers status since I have been paying attention and following this game for some time. Right before summer backers came around I was here. Can I have that opportunity again? Much love!! <3 <3<3<3<3<3<3
    (...)

    I don't think people having special status and getting KS or summer backer benefits after the fact is a good idea.

    As for the topic. Afaik, you can currently buy into beta. And thus far, no open beta has been discussed.
    Nagash wrote: »
    tarros wrote: »
    (...)
    (...) YT
    Well said :joy:

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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    tarros wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    tarros wrote: »
    Can I be special and be offered backers status since I have been paying attention and following this game for some time. Right before summer backers came around I was here. Can I have that opportunity again? Much love!! <3 <3<3<3<3<3<3

    Also I don't like the current things is the shop! Stupid otter mount and wannabe moana skins..... just saying.


    I will give you all the corpses you want. I think this is a fair exchange?

    you have my attention
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    They already did this. It was the summer crowd fund event. And it was poorly received because they offered lifetime subscriptions which they swore before was a Kickstarter exclusive, and apparently lied about it.

    If you don't understand why that is bad, imagine this. You go to your favorite video game store, and buy a game you have your eye on. As you take it to the salesperson they tell you that the store is having a special, that if you spend an extra $15 now you can get an exclusive set of items for the game and even a T-shirt, but that the offer ends by close of business that day. You weren't planning to spend that extra money and as it turns out that's all the cash you have before your paycheck that weekend. You really wanted to spend that money for lunch the rest of the week. But you figure, I better spend it now or I lose this opportunity, so you do it. You have peanut butter and jelly at home, and stale bread, you can make it work.

    You take the game home, have some fun, and then next week you swing by the game store to see if they have anything new. You see a poster advertising the deal with the game you bought, and ask an employee why the poster is still up if the offer expired. They explain to you that the offer doesn't expire, it's an ongoing promotion.

    How pissed off would you be? You were totally lied to. You would have rather saved that $15 and not had to live off bad sandwiches at work, and you could have come back the next week to buy the stuff after your payday. The only reason you bought it then was because you were told it was a time-limited exclusive and you didn't want to miss out on an opportunity you might regret later.

    Well, many KS backers were in that exact position. They felt pressure to pledge NOW because they'd never have the opportunity again. And for lifetime subscriptions, well most MMOs don't offer that. It's a really good deal if the game is great and you play it for a few years, it literally pays for itself in the money you save not having to pay fees each month. And then they find out, "just kidding", it's available again later.

    And you are asking for that kind of garbage AGAIN?! Yes, I know you set a limit and aren't asking for it to go all the way up to Braver or higher, most likely because you know what kind of a $#!*storm it caused last time they offered lifetime subs a second time, being blatantly guilty of false advertising. But regardless, it's still the same problem. You can't sell something to people based on claims of time-limited exclusivity, in order to force them into a (apparently false) choice of buying now or never, and then go back on your written pledge and sell it again. That's a violation of the truth-in-advertising laws, and is a potential FTC violation.

    Hopefully Intrepid Studios isn't stupid enough to take your suggestion seriously. It could likely get them into legal trouble, and even worse from their perspective it would give them an EXTREMELY bad image that would risk tanking this game before release as paying customers demand refunds, and potential customers are turned away from an untrustworthy development studio.
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  • skafftarussskafftaruss Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    edited May 2
    @Atama - As a backer - what really pisses me off is free time to the public for a testing period - even though that's not supposed to happen (in my opinion). Hence, we need to pick our poison. Freebie time over opening up a lesser backer period is the conundrum. Call it pay to play ... open to interpretation? So perhaps beta time shall be open to the public for stress test - enjoy the fanboy-ism while it lasts (versus reality). Let's take a critical look at what the outside gaming public thinks, instead of living in a bubble. Pay attention. Much love. Note - I played Bari-Saxophone not a drummer.
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    If IS opens up Alpha 1/2 to the public I will be upset. Mostly because I would have had the option to not pay for something that was going to be free. I think there would be a lot of backlash against that.

    Opening up Beta 1 I would also be opposed to, but if it happened (assuming they didnt open A1/2) I would probably wouldn't care after the initial "what?" value. However, they would likely have some backlash from backers.

    Opening up Beta 2 I expect to happen regardless of what has been said. IS are master wordsmiths after all.

    I do not think that opening up new backer options would prevent IS from opening up their test phases. They will either choose to do it or they won't. I think the problem with the BR testing was most people that bought early access had jobs or were otherwise unavailable during their testing hours. So they needed to bring in more people quickly. Also, it wasnt what most thought of when they thought of testing.

    Free public time only makes me mad if I paid for it under the impression it would not be free.

    I don't think opening up newer backer options accomplishes anything besides letting some pay now for what they may or may not want to pay for later.

    Also, what is wrong with current backer options?
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  • skafftarussskafftaruss Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    edited May 2
    @Atama Good. Open up the Beta 2 options but not for freebie time to the general public. Let's see IF and how it will be done. Good compromise. Part of it is poor communication. My two IT folks are looking forward to it or I will have to give them two of my beta keys, although they come on their own AOC volition to pay for membership. Again, education efforts are lacking - if that is the case. BTW - as a backer, technical difficulties meant I was side-lined, while other freebie folks got their enjoyment during Battle Royale. I was on TeamSpeak to get things straightened out for which I payed a pretty penny as a backer. That costs money but I was OK in doing it. FYI. Skaff.
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