Backstab yes or no?

I know that we currently dont know anything, about the finished combat system, but here is an interesting point to discuss: Do you think that an automatic backstab effect would be good or bad in the game.

I believe that it would be really interesting, if an attack from the back would automatically do more dmg then from the front, and had a higher chance to crit.
Why do i think that?
Well for the most part, because that would bring players to automatically try to get into the enemies back, and it would enhance the player experience in my opinion. Imagine a PvP scenario, where mages actually had to really think about blinking away from enemies, because that could lead them to expose their back to them.
Another cool thing would be a flanking bonus (like you are at the side of the enemy and someone is behind it, leading to an extra attack bonus)
That way people would try to cooperate a bit more in fights against bigger creatures. ^^




(It could be that these are already confirmed or refuted, but i didnt find anything about this on the wiki so here we are! :D)
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Comments

  • Maybe both.. It would add some nice strategy to fights for sure, but in other hand some stuns and roots might become easily too op or at least mandatory in PvP. And ganking would be easier when you chase someone. >:)
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  • arzosaharzosah Member, Braver of Worlds
    I would prefer to see a system where you use the right ability in the right situation. Having a backstab ability that does more damage than a normal attack but has a positional requirement.
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  • ferryman wrote: »
    Maybe both.. It would add some nice strategy to fights for sure, but in other hand some stuns and roots might become easily too op or at least mandatory in PvP. And ganking would be easier when you chase someone. >:)

    Well Jeffrey said that they want to stay away from Hard CC, and that they want to make CC in general a skill shot, instead of a tab-tageting ability^^
    But I see, where you come from, CC will be really important in this case :D
    (And if people dont want to be chased, then they just have to become the chaser >:D)
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  • arzosah wrote: »
    I would prefer to see a system where you use the right ability in the right situation. Having a backstab ability that does more damage than a normal attack but has a positional requirement.

    That doesnt mean, that a normal "backstab" cant be implemented :D
    (I think it would be good if rogues had an extra actual backstab ability too^^)
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  • autumnleafautumnleaf Member, Braver of Worlds
    So my meteorites count as backstab because they hit everywhere ?
  • nagashnagash Member, Leader of Men
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  • arzosaharzosah Member, Braver of Worlds
    autumnleaf wrote: »
    So my meteorites count as backstab because they hit everywhere ?

    I think it's just a crushing blow at that point.
    also, OP pls nerf.
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  • autumnleafautumnleaf Member, Braver of Worlds
    arzosah wrote: »
    autumnleaf wrote: »
    So my meteorites count as backstab because they hit everywhere ?

    I think it's just a crushing blow at that point.
    also, OP pls nerf.

    No ? dont take away my already watered down attacks.
  • damokles wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    Maybe both.. It would add some nice strategy to fights for sure, but in other hand some stuns and roots might become easily too op or at least mandatory in PvP. And ganking would be easier when you chase someone. >:)

    Well Jeffrey said that they want to stay away from Hard CC, and that they want to make CC in general a skill shot, instead of a tab-tageting ability^^
    But I see, where you come from, CC will be really important in this case :D
    (And if people dont want to be chased, then they just have to become the chaser >:D)

    Yeah I know it is planned that there won't be hard CCs, but those stuns can become too valueable if you can lock your enemy to certain position and then hit hard with everything you got (+your friends) from behind. So it would be better if there is not as such a thing, but there could be some specific abilities which can be more effective from behind or flank. Backstab was one ordinary, but good example of this kind of possibility. However, this idea can be ofc refined even further. It would be nice if tanks charge ability for example would cause more disorder in enemy ranks if hits from the flank. So this kind of nice things I would like to see more.
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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Leader of Men
    They have said a few different times that the well-loved meta of griefers everywhere of stealth/backstab/stunlock/backstab/stunlock/backstab/dead is not going to be a thing. We also know that shields give 360 protection, so I wouldn't be expecting facing damage modifiers anytime soon.
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  • I think backstabbing could be really cool for rouges and their subsets. I don't think it's super game changing as long as it doesn't do like 75% of their health. I think it should do a good amount of damage, seeing as I don't think they will have 100% invisibility potions or abilities so it'll be QUITE hard to get behind someone unnoticed unless they're like.. afk or in mid battle..!
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  • aird88aird88 Member, Braver of Worlds
    I think backstabbing could be really cool for rouges and their subsets. I don't think it's super game changing as long as it doesn't do like 75% of their health. I think it should do a good amount of damage, seeing as I don't think they will have 100% invisibility potions or abilities so it'll be QUITE hard to get behind someone unnoticed unless they're like.. afk or in mid battle..!

    I don't see why a rogue should have invisibility abilities unless they're maybe augmented by the wizard class.
  • atamaatama Member, Braver of Worlds
    aird88 wrote: »
    I don't see why a rogue should have invisibility abilities unless they're maybe augmented by the wizard class.

    So, a Nightspell could do it?
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  • damoklesdamokles Member
    So the current consensus is that rogues in general should have a backstab ability yes? Because if so, think of the possibility when augmented with a ranger. RANGED BACKSTAB FTW! THERE IS NO ESCAPE! :D
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  • atamaatama Member, Braver of Worlds
    damokles wrote: »
    So the current consensus is that rogues in general should have a backstab ability yes? Because if so, think of the possibility when augmented with a ranger. RANGED BACKSTAB FTW! THERE IS NO ESCAPE! :D

    Ranged backstabs are far worse than melee. If they simply turn around you’re done. Whereas you can actually maneuver behind someone if you’re close to them.
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  • nagashnagash Member, Leader of Men
    if I wear a shield on my back does that mean I'm immune to backstabs?
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  • ferrymanferryman Member
    aird88 wrote: »
    I think backstabbing could be really cool for rouges and their subsets. I don't think it's super game changing as long as it doesn't do like 75% of their health. I think it should do a good amount of damage, seeing as I don't think they will have 100% invisibility potions or abilities so it'll be QUITE hard to get behind someone unnoticed unless they're like.. afk or in mid battle..!

    I don't see why a rogue should have invisibility abilities unless they're maybe augmented by the wizard class.

    I bet you understood that @Pokosaurous meant stealth.. christ.
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  • grisugrisu Member
    nagash wrote: »
    if I wear a shield on my back does that mean I'm immune to backstabs?

    If I wear armor, does that mean I am immune to damage?

    If I am, do I also have to be? Real questions. :3
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  • nagashnagash Member, Leader of Men
    grisu wrote: »
    nagash wrote: »
    if I wear a shield on my back does that mean I'm immune to backstabs?

    If I wear armor, does that mean I am immune to damage?

    If I am, do I also have to be? Real questions. :3

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  • morashtakmorashtak Member, Braver of Worlds
    Is a backstab just another combat ability or is it a skill that is only used in very restrictive situations?

    Could it be used against a foe in battle even tho' the target is constantly moving and trained to expect an attack to come from any direction and angle?

    If a highly restricted skill how detailed does the programming have be without it being too restrictive? Field of view, alertness, training, skills, time of day (where applicable), alertness of the target, and other factors could all be part of the algorithm but then does this make it such highly skill based that only the best-of-the-best-of-the-best could hope to pull it off?

    I lean toward it being a highly situational skill rather than just another combat skill.
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  • atamaatama Member, Braver of Worlds
    nagash wrote: »
    if I wear a shield on my back does that mean I'm immune to backstabs?

    1) Lift shield

    2) Insert blade

    3) Loot corpse
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  • nagashnagash Member, Leader of Men
    atama wrote: »
    nagash wrote: »
    if I wear a shield on my back does that mean I'm immune to backstabs?

    1) Lift shield

    2) Insert blade

    3) Loot corpse

    That genius
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • blightedblighted Member, Founder
    edited June 6
    You mean like ANY skill had a higher chance to crit and just did more dmg? I would say thats nice because it rewards skillful and strategic play by allowing players to position themselves better in fights for bonuses. On the flipside sometimes players get these bonuses by complete accident in large scale fights and AOE attacks just tend to nuke people because of this.

    edit: damn may 1st, didn't even look at how far back this went
  • damoklesdamokles Member
    @blighted
    I thought of both (higher crit chance and all around higher dmg, like a flanking bonus :D )
    AoEs would be excluded in this, because they would be like you said xD
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  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
    I'm a fan of backstabs, flanking bonuses, and/or positional requirements in PvE. Lots of MMOs have something like that and it makes the game more interesting from a tactical sense, especially since it gives the tank an extra goal/reward for controlling enemies correctly.

    In PvP though, it doesn't work nearly as well. Mostly it's just finicky because of how players can change their facing instantly at any time. The kind of flanking bonus where you have two players on either side of the target could maybe work though. Sandwich bonus, heh.

    Regardless of my opinions, players would probably be disappointed if the Rogue class didn't have any backstabs. It's kinda quintessential to the archetype.
  • lufialufia Member
    If everyone has backstabs it kinda has one backside.
    Everyone in raids for example, would be required to be bundled up on one exact place.
    Backstabs should probably be a "from stealth" ability
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  • noaaninoaani Member
    Intrepid have said that battlefield control is important in Ashes.

    What I'd like to see come from that is for different enemies (if not player characters) have different armor levels based on where an attack comes from. They could also have the option of having different protection levels from different angles for different types of damage.

    This would then mean that the tank - who Intrepid have stated are the masters of controlling the battlefield - not only need to manage where each enemy is, but also what direction they are facing. This would change the overall strategy required for combat.

    As to the specifics of the OP's question, I'd rather see classes like all the Rogue/X's have stealth abilities that grant additional damage or crit, rather than just backstabs. That way, their positioning is just as important as everyone elses.
  • azathothazathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    I don't think attacking someone in the back should equate to more damage automatically. Most armor sets, including helmets, protect the back as much as they do the front.

    I do think, because of the class, that a rogue could have an ability they could use when behind someone for a more powerful attack.
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  • Not for all classes
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member
    I think just a 0% parry chance and a reduced dodge chance of enemy would be sufficient to "reward" positioning but not over-do it.
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