Merchant wagons anyone?

granthor

I know we will have local shops in towns, and caravans going from place to place, moving goods and supplies. But I got to thinking. Will we see the need for a Merchant wagon? Not small carts, but a full-sized wagon, one were you can take your goods to different towns, and sell from the wagons, vs setting up a stale in the town.

This isn't a new idea, and in the real world has been done, and is still being done today. Food truck anyone?

I just think it would be a nice touch to the game, limit the number of items you can sell, so your not going around with 1 million of whatever your selling, and it should be out to raid parties just like a regular caravan. Just unlike a caravan, you can sell from the wagon.

What do you guys think? good idea or bad?

Varkun

It sounds to me like it could be a fun idea, you would have to plan your moves though, and bring some friends to stop the bandits as such. I think it would add an interesting dynamic playing the role of a traveling salesperson if you were able to set up and sell in places that did not have a marketplace. In a way, it may just be similar to transporting your goods by caravan and then hiring a stall in the destination settlements marketplace.

It may simply come down to being able to set up in places you usually would not be able to.

T Elf

I'd like to be able to sell from a mobile cart; this would be different from a wagon in that wagons are used as caravans in the game and they create an area where people are invited to PvP. Whereas, if you had a cart to sell out of as you travel it doesn't create the PvP invitational area, but of course, you could still be PvP'd unless there is a safe place.

Jahlon

This would act in contrast to the player stall option they are doing.

The point of the player stall is to limit the shops to the citizens of the nodes. If you could have player stalls out of a wagon, you'end up with a FFXI and have hundreds of players lined up at the zoneline to cities selling stuff.

Its a great concept, but in execution it turns out bad.

grisu

I'm with Jahlon on this one. It's undermining what we have with stalls and personal caravans. Also a bit redundant in itself.
It's not like you are barred from selling from storage. You just lack the convinience of people being able to browse on their own. Good old chatting, that's what people want in everything after all right? Whole discussion against groupfinder is people get antisocial apparently.

T Elf

Well I'm guessing we are going to end up with lots of spamage in chat with people just trying to sell wares. Any one remember the Caves and Antonica in EQ?

granthor

And this to my point of making a Merchant wagon to sell from. It doesn't need a huge inventory, just enough storage to bring a few items out to sell. But really at the end of the day, what system isn't going to have its pros and cons? People will find ways to sell whatever they have, all I am saying let us add a few more tools in the game to keep it under control. You still can have stalls, shops, and whatever. The wagons and carts are something you have to be online to use, vs the others where you can set them up to sell while you're offline.

So is that so bad?

Jahlon

granthor wrote: »

And this to my point of making a Merchant wagon to sell from. It doesn't need a huge inventory, just enough storage to bring a few items out to sell. But really at the end of the day, what system isn't going to have its pros and cons? People will find ways to sell whatever they have, all I am saying let us add a few more tools in the game to keep it under control. You still can have stalls, shops, and whatever. The wagons and carts are something you have to be online to use, vs the others where you can set them up to sell while you're offline.

So is that so bad?

Actually yes.

Walking into Jeuno in FFXI there were hundreds of people lined up to sell things from their Bazaar.

I would hate for the cities to get filled with "carts" and then not only have them be an eye sore, but also have to travel from place to place to sell looking for stuff.

What you are asking for comes in the form of stalls. We don't need a second method to accomplish the same effect, otherwise what is the point in paying for a stall when someone can set up shop right next to you without paying for the stall?

Azryil

I think anything that adds unnecessary clutter is inherently bad. Even if you have to be online to operate the cart people will just leave their games up overnight and would just be another stall that isn't restricted by location.
if a couple hundred people do this in a city that means a couple hundred more assets that players will have to render when entering the city square, this could result in pretty poor performance for lower end rigs.

granthor

Well, how you keep it under control within the cities is simple. You sell in town, you pay a tax. Plus you can limit how many carts can be in one area, maybe making it you can't sell in town unless you're in a certain area of the city and paying taxes. lol

Mainly having your mobile would let you go out into areas to sell, that you normally can't get to just having town stalls. Everyone doesn't need to be in the same areas, but I can see how it can get out of control. But put in a check and balance system, and I don't see an issue long-term.

Jahlon

granthor wrote: »

Well, how you keep it under control within the cities is simple. You sell in town, you pay a tax. Plus you can limit how many carts can be in one area, maybe making it you can't sell in town unless you're in a certain area of the city and paying taxes. lol

Mainly having your mobile would let you go out into areas to sell, that you normally can't get to just having town stalls. Everyone doesn't need to be in the same areas, but I can see how it can get out of control. But put in a check and balance system, and I don't see an issue long-term.

So basically all the limitations you've put on it, you've basically just recreated the stall system.

Ferryman

Varkun wrote: »

It sounds to me like it could be a fun idea, you would have to plan your moves though, and bring some friends to stop the bandits as such. I think it would add an interesting dynamic playing the role of a traveling salesperson if you were able to set up and sell in places that did not have a marketplace. In a way, it may just be similar to transporting your goods by caravan and then hiring a stall in the destination settlements marketplace.

Yeah, I agree. It might be too close what we will already have.

Varkun wrote: »

It may simply come down to being able to set up in places you usually would not be able to.

However, this might be the solution, and refining a little bit that original idea there could be still room for moveable merchant wagons like @granthor suggested. The question is; Will there be need of markets outside of the towns? Maybe selling food and potions at some dungeon entrance..?

Jahlon

Ferryman wrote: »

However, this might be the solution, and refining a little bit that original idea there could be still room for moveable merchant wagons like @granthor suggested. The question is; Will there be need of markets outside of the towns? Maybe selling food and potions at some dungeon entrance..?

That would probably not work well as people would use Mobs to kill you.

But that's also why the nearby Freehold utilized as a Tavern/Inn is going to be a center of commerce.

Ferryman

@jahlon Well yeah, it might be too dangerous to sell anything outside of the town anyway. I guess it still depends could there be any need for markets outside of towns/taverns, and if there won't be, then this merchant wagon feature feels kind of pointless.

Damokles

I can see it already.
A bloody battlefield, corpses everywhere.
The deathscreams of foe and ally alike.
And 300m behind your line, on the horizon, appears an old rikkety merchant stall and begins to set up.
"Healthpotions! Manapotions! Do you need reagents for your spells and blessings? Old man Dave has it all here! Come all ye faithfull and spend your hard earned coin! Repairs and sharpening come in a buy 1 get 2 deal! Do you need to refresh your buff food? Sit down and eat some of Old man Daves patented boar soup(trademark tending)!"

Everyone just stares at him, and slowly your allies start to trickle in, utilizing his services, turning the Tides of War in your favour.

AurumVitae

Real-world traveling merchants were usually things like sharpeners (that sharpen knives and make difficult repairs etc) and tinkers (fixing pots and pans) that sold trinkets. Things people didn't need all the time, but did sometimes. Otherwise they're just caravans, moving resources from an area rich in them to places they don't occur naturally (like ore and metal goods from the mountains to a region low in mineral resources).

I'm not sure this can translate successfully to an MMO without much more advancement of the VR/Virtual world genre.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the traveling circus or carnival, which would be interesting, but probably NPC run.

T Elf

I kind of invisioned the mobile cart idea as one that you had to be actively engaged and sell person to person, no afk selling, and yes, you could just travel around selling on the road. That does present a problem for those who want to collect taxes, as I see these people as nomads, having no citizenship.

granthor

jahlon wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

Well, how you keep it under control within the cities is simple. You sell in town, you pay a tax. Plus you can limit how many carts can be in one area, maybe making it you can't sell in town unless you're in a certain area of the city and paying taxes. lol

Mainly having your mobile would let you go out into areas to sell, that you normally can't get to just having town stalls. Everyone doesn't need to be in the same areas, but I can see how it can get out of control. But put in a check and balance system, and I don't see an issue long-term.

So basically all the limitations you've put on it, you've basically just recreated the stall system.

More like a Mobile stall, you know on wheels. But you can't sell from it if you're not online.

Jahlon

granthor wrote: »

jahlon wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

Well, how you keep it under control within the cities is simple. You sell in town, you pay a tax. Plus you can limit how many carts can be in one area, maybe making it you can't sell in town unless you're in a certain area of the city and paying taxes. lol

Mainly having your mobile would let you go out into areas to sell, that you normally can't get to just having town stalls. Everyone doesn't need to be in the same areas, but I can see how it can get out of control. But put in a check and balance system, and I don't see an issue long-term.

So basically all the limitations you've put on it, you've basically just recreated the stall system.

More like a Mobile stall, you know on wheels. But you can't sell from it if you're not online.

Right I get that.

But when you take all the cons about it, and then you read all the limitations that have been placed on it, it has basically been boiled back down to the stall concept.

Personally, I don't want to see the game littered with a bunch of mobile carts. I don't want to see 500 mobile stalls appear in a city to by-pass the tax system of the Node. I don't want to see the advantage of being a citizen of that Node diminished by having a method that bypasses the advantage (that is being eligible to rent a stall)

I really don't want to see the road outside of a town lined with merchant wagons, nor do those merchants want to be there for when someone trains mobs into them just to kill them.

I don't want to see the path to a dungeon littered with merchants, also waiting for that inevitable mob train.

You want to be the guy who profits from a region, then dial in with the systems that are already in place. Open a freehold tavern and inn just down the road from that dungeon and sell your consumables there. Become a citizen and sell the latest armor and weapons in the military node that has an Arena.

T Elf

@jahlon What you are going to see are people standing around hawking their wares, the only difference will be no carts.

Jahlon

elf wrote: »

@jahlon What you are going to see are people standing around hawking their wares, the only difference will be no carts.

If they don't have a personal bazaar option, then I don't think people are going to linger around line.

Actively selling stuff? Sure.
Putting it onto local markets? Sure.
Renting stalls? Sure.

But there is a huge difference between seeing 100 people in an area selling stuff and 100 mobile shops

T Elf

jahlon wrote: »

elf wrote: »

@jahlon
But there is a huge difference between seeing 100 people in an area selling stuff and 100 mobile shops

6 of one; half dozen the other.

Azathoth

I like the mobile cart idea, but I think it should function like the caravans. Auto-flagged for PvP.

T Elf

azathoth wrote: »

I like the mobile cart idea, but I think it should function like the caravans. Auto-flagged for PvP.

LOL that just makes it a caravan.

Azathoth

Well, to my understanding you can't stop a caravan and sell wares directly from it. I'm suggesting that if you can take a merchant wagon about and set it up to sell wares, like a caravan, it should flag up for PvP.

But I do see the resemblance.

T Elf

A caravan is not designed to stop along the road and sell wares; it's designed to be a traveling PvP zone with rewards for either making it to it's destination (where the reward is either being sold or stored) or being overcome and looted.
Whereas, the purposed cart does not create a zone, and it's goal is not a destination; it would be treated the same as the person owning it.

Azathoth

Interesting idea I guess. As long as there was no way of potentially using it to avoid the caravan system, then not auto flagging for PvP would make sense. However, if the merchant wagon is being used to transport goods from one town to the next for trade that seems like the purpose of caravans to me.

The OP also suggests it should be like a caravan, just one that can stop and sell goods. Others suggested to bring guards to protect from bandits. So maybe I should have just said I agree with them.

I think that if there are travelling carts that can stop and sell wares, they should auto flag for PvP. Since caravans can't stop and sell wares, and could be designed to carry more supplies, that would be the difference.

T Elf

I agree the cart should not replace caravans, and be purple.
Giving it a thought on the whole, this probably won't be implemented.

Amist

I think with how the node system and economy is going to work, this would cause problems in terms of needing citizenship to place your carts.

Would you be able to enter a city if your merchant cart is from another city?

And wouldn't it take away the efficiency/purpose of stalls?

T Elf

My thought was the carts would be purely for travel, and not be available in cities in place of stalls.

[Deleted User]

So.. like mobile stalls.

And a different / specialised caravan, albeit possibly one of limited size.
One that requires activity to keep in use, not afk usable.

One that is banned from trading within city bounds.. to avoid @Jahlons mass invasion of vendors

Hmm, if you want to encourage trade only within the city, then what about, rather than penalising the itinerant peddlers, give city bonuses to consumers within the city. You buy within our bounds, your rep with us increases. Or something similar.

If you do it that way, the benefit of being able to sell on the move is then offset by a less attractive product.

Possibly?