Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

should Mobs be able to kill you?

As the title suggests should mobs be able to kill us if we were not careful enough? those of us who play vanilla WoW remember how pulling more than 2 mobs at a time can kill you, some people like this and others don't, for me I liked that aspect comparing to today mobes where I can kill mobs higher 10 levels than my character or just collect all of the mobs (on my level or higher) and just AOE all of them with one or two skills.
And since we are on the topic lits add the mobs in dungeons and raid should killing them be a priority rather than just bypass them? for example, should we get an extra reward for killing them like them holding recipes? or not killing them and bypass them will make them attack us when we reach the boss? and so on.
I just wanted to know what all of you think? and at what level of difficulty do you want the mobs to be at?
«1

Comments

  • AzryilAzryil Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    absolutely, if there is no risk the game gets boring.
    k2U15J3.png
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited May 2019
    Definitely, encounters should entail danger and/or require some thought and skill to overcome. I like it when you need to consider which skills are actually effective against a mob - not just the total dps throughput possible in a rotation.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yes, to strong mobs!
    I loved Classic, burning crusade and wotlk wow, because you could not just pull 10 mobs, aoe them down and repeat.
    I remember the time, when i leveled my human warrior in elwynn forrest, and had to always watch out, while killing kobolds in the mines. I want these times back tbh...
    roaaztC.gif
  • Yes.
    I love it when mobs are dangerous and you have to fight your way through.
    I like it when mobs are relentless.

    I totally hate walking in a straight line going from A to B and not worrying.
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    100% yes
    hpsmlCJ.jpg
    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2019
    You should be able to handle a few mobs at your level if you are careful. Mobs a bit lower than you can be dealt with in greater numbers and/or with less effort. Mobs much lower than you can probably be ignored.

    You should be able to handle one or two if they are a level higher than you. Two levels above you, maybe one at a time but it’s a difficult fight. Higher than that, you need to be in a group or you won’t even have a chance.

    This may vary from class to class though, with some classes more capable at soloing than others.
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • Rem_Rem_ Member
    edited May 2019
    YES ~!!!!
    Poko.png
  • Yes, and in open dungeons and raids the same thing, if you over pull they should wipe your group. You should have to think before just pulling a few mobs and be aware of what adds might be coming.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Yes
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • S3V3NTHS3V3NTH Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Yes, absolutely!!! The more challenging the better, there is better sense of accomplishment.
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Yes! I wouldn't consider it an RPG if death wasn't an option.
    Should perma-death be implemented? That would be different, and likely end with a mass exodus from the game.
    57597603_387667588743769_477625458809110528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=16e82247154b84484b7f627c0ac76fca&oe=5D448BDD
    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • There should be always a challenge. When you get stronger, you'll be able handle more and more ways to deal with different situations. I want good old wow vanilla feeling no easy mode
  • HexcatHexcat Member
    edited May 2019
    I think it could also be a matter of your class, a rogue or a ranger should be able to handle up to three NPC's for example (obviously putting their health bar at risk) but being a fighter or a tank I expect that my armor and habilities grant me enough resistance to handle 5 NPC loosing between the 60 to 75 % of my health bar , after all our avatars are not going to be simple peasants we are going to be be the spearhead of the retaking of Verra
    giphy.gif
  • amuriaamuria Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2019
    @Lumbermark Players could also just be the expendable gullible bunch of people which are send first. That way your elites are prepared for what is to come.

    I would like enemies to have a risk to them, but I would also like to be able to kill several if I use my abilities well enough.
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Remember the days when you were doing dungeons with your friends and you would cc specific mobs target the healer first while the tank grabbed aggro on the hardest hitting mobs sometimes cc would need to be reapplied because the fight with that pack of mobs would take quite a while. Remember the random mob that wandered between groups of mobs that could pull the other group if you aggroed it. Remember how you would wipe if you got this wrong well I would like to see a return to this type of gameplay.

    If you are skilled perhaps you can kill a couple of mobs of your level at the same time when you start out with your crappy starter gear. But as you hit max level and you develop your skills gain more power obtain better more powerful gear you may be able to take on perhaps 3 or 4 mobs of your level IF you are skilled enough. What I really do not want to see is single players rounding up a dozen mobs of their level or higher and just grinding them down with aoe.

    So yes bring the risk back make mobs tough.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • HexcatHexcat Member
    I really doubt that's the situation @amuria
    "Players arrive in Verra to explore, rebuild and repopulate their place of origin. Ancient treasures and wondrous adventures await those who dare to disturb the dark remnants of evil that inhabit this land."
    That part of the lore tells me that we are prominent adventurers ready for epic action
    Like the fleets in Monster Hunter World :smiley:
    giphy.gif
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Lumbermark wrote: »
    I really doubt that's the situation @amuria
    "Players arrive in Verra to explore, rebuild and repopulate their place of origin. Ancient treasures and wondrous adventures await those who dare to disturb the dark remnants of evil that inhabit this land."
    That part of the lore tells me that we are prominent adventurers ready for epic action
    Like the fleets in Monster Hunter World :smiley:
    Hah, you’re buying the propaganda. Swallowing it all; hook, line, and sinker. Clearly you’re one of the gullible expendables. ;)
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • nibiru97nibiru97 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Lumbermark wrote: »
    I really doubt that's the situation @amuria
    "Players arrive in Verra to explore, rebuild and repopulate their place of origin. Ancient treasures and wondrous adventures await those who dare to disturb the dark remnants of evil that inhabit this land."
    That part of the lore tells me that we are prominent adventurers ready for epic action
    Like the fleets in Monster Hunter World :smiley:

    Then why even have levels or anything? Should we all just enter the world max level because we should be able to kill everything because we are elite?

    I think 1 mob alone should be difficult to solo, but doable. Anything closer to EQ than WoW when it comes to difficulty would be most appreciated.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Probably
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Something else i wanted to add: Do you remember THE deadliest add for alliance players in WoW classic?
    The "Defias Pillager", they were caster adds in a lvl15-20 zone. Problem was, no one had any kind of interrupt at that level. Other problem was that they respawned extremely fast and always in groups of 1-2 caster together with 2 melee adds xD
    I want a challenge, and not a Defias Pillager please xD
    roaaztC.gif
  • insomniainsomnia Member
    edited May 2019
    I hated how it was in vanilla WoW. But the other aspect of it is also boring. You should be a able to kill the group/mob you ingage. Unless it is an elite, that should only be for the very skilled players, if it should even be possible. I hated the part that you might just get overrun, in vanilla wow, just due to how mobs spawned. I don't think you should be able to kill mobs more that 1, maybe 2 levels higher than you and it should be a single mob, maybe with a mob around your level or lower,. But it should still require skill/gear etc to pull off
  • caedwyncaedwyn Member
    in archeage , first you cant beat the weakest beings without potting
    but in the endgame you become so strong ok ?
    you can farm mobs 10 at a time yes but if you are like me and you get bored , you pull 20 or 30 mobs ok?
    and as mobs gather, they get a buff called "the gathering" which signifantly reduces their damage taken and boosts their damage dealing to you.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There is a fine line to be had here. Make the leveling mobs too hard and newer players will quit before they reach the level cap. But make it too easy and you trivialise the content and experienced players get bored. Balancing the 2 is extremely difficult, especially during the leveling phase. At end-game it's a lot easier to balance because you can assume that players have reached a certain skill level, therefore closing the gap between the newer players and the experienced players. Should leveling mobs be a threat? Yes, to a certain extent, but more importantly they should encourage the player to adapt and use all their abilities. That is after all one of the reasons why mmorpgs have a leveling system, to teach players how to play. If you can get to the level cap by only using 1-2 of your abilities, then the leveling system has failed in my opinion. There's no point giving players CC abilities if they never need to use them.

    On a related note, there is a big difference between difficulty and engagement. Just because a mob is hard to kill doesn't necessarily mean it is better than an easier to kill mob. Vanilla WoW leveling wasn't actually hard, just very time consuming and boring. The mobs you were fighting didn't really do anything special, they were just so numerous and hit so hard that you had to take them out one at a time. That is not my idea of fun.

    Think of it this way. I'm trying to paint a wall, and I have a big brush and a small brush. If I use the small brush I'm not really making the job harder, just more time-consuming. Vanilla WoW is like using the small brush, whereas modern WoW is using the big brush.

    I know this will never happen but I'd love to see an mmorpg with multiple leveling difficulties. For example, there could be an easy mode where the mobs aren't really a threat, designed for newer players. Then you have a harder mode where the mobs are more dangerous but reward you with more exp. The theory is that if you are good enough, you'll be able to level up faster on the hard mode compared to the easy mode. This would reward more skilled players while still giving newer players a chance to learn in a safe environment.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • JokucJokuc Member
    edited May 2019
    Well not all of them, obviously there will be weak mobs too. But yes there should be mobs that should be able to kill you. Look at Maguuma in gw2, full of Mordrem everywhere that kill you in 5 seconds if you're not careful. Actually makes you play the game instead of just mindlessly walking through it
    2030 release let's goooooooooooooo
  • leameseleamese Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Yes
  • I would prefer intelligent monsters to tough "mobs". I find grinding mobs boring (they're just mobile targets, after all).

    When I was playing WoW (a long time ago), I remember the kobolds in Goldshire. I kept wondering why they just stood there while I slaughtered their friends. I thought it would be cool if they raised the alarm and formed a militia to fight off players, maybe retreating underground and gathering before sending out raiding parties against Goldshire (assuming they could find it) before their ire eventually died down and they went back to normal. They could even have used the healer/tank/dps strategy so beloved by players. Being not very bright, and cowards at heart, they could even do silly things, like the healer cowering in horror while the rest got slaughtered, or the tank running away while the others fought. Maybe one of the kobolds gets so excited he attacks his own party instead of the enemy they're fighting. Of course, more powerful and intelligent enemies would have more effective tactics and discipline.

    I know that level of AI is difficult (if not impossible) to program, and very difficult to implement on a scale the size of the world that AoC will be, but it would be nice if the NPC enemies were something other than simple 1-strategy target dummies.

    And yes, a mob on your level should have a chance to kill you if you're not on your game, but not be so difficult that a bit of lag gets you killed. It's a tricky balance.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    AurumVitae wrote: »
    I would prefer intelligent monsters to tough "mobs". I find grinding mobs boring (they're just mobile targets, after all).

    When I was playing WoW (a long time ago), I remember the kobolds in Goldshire. I kept wondering why they just stood there while I slaughtered their friends. I thought it would be cool if they raised the alarm and formed a militia to fight off players, maybe retreating underground and gathering before sending out raiding parties against Goldshire (assuming they could find it) before their ire eventually died down and they went back to normal. They could even have used the healer/tank/dps strategy so beloved by players. Being not very bright, and cowards at heart, they could even do silly things, like the healer cowering in horror while the rest got slaughtered, or the tank running away while the others fought. Maybe one of the kobolds gets so excited he attacks his own party instead of the enemy they're fighting. Of course, more powerful and intelligent enemies would have more effective tactics and discipline.

    I know that level of AI is difficult (if not impossible) to program, and very difficult to implement on a scale the size of the world that AoC will be, but it would be nice if the NPC enemies were something other than simple 1-strategy target dummies.

    And yes, a mob on your level should have a chance to kill you if you're not on your game, but not be so difficult that a bit of lag gets you killed. It's a tricky balance.

    That kind of high-level AI would make it impossible to quest for solo players though^^
    roaaztC.gif
  • T ElfT Elf Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    There should be all types of mobs, easy to kill, ones you may be able to sneak by, challenging, groups that need crowd control (I miss the days when mezz mattered), and groups that will kill you if you pull too many (remembering the days when you had to be careful how you pulled and had a designated puller). Those were the good ol' days of MMOs...hope we get those again.
    eZC6mjP.gif
    Formerly T-Elf

  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Damokles wrote: »
    AurumVitae wrote: »
    I would prefer intelligent monsters to tough "mobs". I find grinding mobs boring (they're just mobile targets, after all).

    When I was playing WoW (a long time ago), I remember the kobolds in Goldshire. I kept wondering why they just stood there while I slaughtered their friends. I thought it would be cool if they raised the alarm and formed a militia to fight off players, maybe retreating underground and gathering before sending out raiding parties against Goldshire (assuming they could find it) before their ire eventually died down and they went back to normal. They could even have used the healer/tank/dps strategy so beloved by players. Being not very bright, and cowards at heart, they could even do silly things, like the healer cowering in horror while the rest got slaughtered, or the tank running away while the others fought. Maybe one of the kobolds gets so excited he attacks his own party instead of the enemy they're fighting. Of course, more powerful and intelligent enemies would have more effective tactics and discipline.

    I know that level of AI is difficult (if not impossible) to program, and very difficult to implement on a scale the size of the world that AoC will be, but it would be nice if the NPC enemies were something other than simple 1-strategy target dummies.

    And yes, a mob on your level should have a chance to kill you if you're not on your game, but not be so difficult that a bit of lag gets you killed. It's a tricky balance.

    That kind of high-level AI would make it impossible to quest for solo players though^^

    Agreed. The only game I've seen with such advanced AI was the original guild wars, where the mobs fought in cohesive groups and were programmed to target the casters and healers first. The thing is, that game was designed entirely around group combat (there was no such thing as solo play - you either had other players or npcs with you at all times).

    Intelligent mobs that fight together sound fantastic in theory, but rarely work out in practice. Some of the most hated bosses in the dark souls games are the fights where you have to fight more than 1 opponent.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • Damokles wrote: »
    That kind of high-level AI would make it impossible to quest for solo players though^^

    It would make it more challenging. You couldn't solo the groups, but you could pick off the strays. Or just wait for it to reset. Or wait until one of the wandering groups stopped to attack something, and then take them out one by one.

    You would have to get creative, which is where the fun comes in!

    It would also be something to consider when designing the system, like maybe limit NPC groups to 3, make sure they don't work together well, etc. As in the AI wouldn't just be fighting, but role playing appropriately to the monsters level.

    But for the most part, you would probably be right, and like I said, it's probably impossible to make work anyway.
Sign In or Register to comment.