Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
So to make the things clear I am playing League of Legends in high master/ chall right now. My best MMORPG experience was with two grinding games BlackDesertOnline and 4Story in which I stood with super good gears. However, since I want to get back into playing MMORPG or atleast try it out once more. I feel like I should try to join your "Group gameplay" conversation.
1) Competitive group - I feel like every game nowadays should at least try to get a bit of "Competitive touch". I think there are these points to get the best competitive content:
a) It has to be easy (even new players should not find it hard to kill someone or accomplish tasks)
b) It has to be repetitive, but not the same every time
c) Game should be changing (adding content, balancing, changing graphics, bug fixes..)
My first competitive experience was in 4Story. Guilds had 4 territories to conquer or to defend (if they conquered it before) for every map(country). Every territory had 2 gates, if the gate got destroyed the guardian would spawn inside the territory then the guild who dealt the most damage to the guardian would obtain it. Guilds were getting competitive points for defending or conquering them. At the end of the week there would be "Castle conquering" for every map(country). There would be fight between the guild that obtained the castle last time and the guild that obtained the most points in the given week.
This thing overall was super fun to me and kept me playing and my friends for super long time. I remember super huge raids of people raiding the maps and conquering or defending everything. It was really good experience and even new players were engaged(checking whether there are any raids around the map, dangers, watching the gates when the main groups were fighting somewhere else. which I liked the most. There are not many mmorpgs that can engage new players in any type of high end content.
2) Groups or Solo - I think in every good game should be possible to be able to solo anything. However, it has to be after long time spent into the game. I mean I always loved when some type of high end player just went into dungeon or group and just soloed it. It always kept me going. I felt like it was the best achievement to obtain. It was super good thing. (even in LeagueOfLegends, people strive to be able to go 1v9 It's just THE BEST EXPERIENCE u can be able to get.). In my opinion group contents are really good. However, there will be people that dislike/ hate playing with the others and they will just do anything to get better enough to solo. And I love those people. However, I somehow felt like these players were the pillars of the healthy community.
Those are my main points.
something out of context
3) Black/ shady market - I was always wondering why EVERY game is trying to get rid of the "black market" instead of implementing it into the game itself. I remember Diablo III auction and it was like super magnet for players or even steam skins trading even though people made it look super gamble like It was really successful. Even in the LeagueOfLegends there are so many boosting sites It's actually business for many high end people. People will say that it's p2w, but it's really just you avoiding shady websites and so on. Just make the way for people to buy something for irl cash currency in a state that u will gain few percentages from the transaction and it will be win win. But it's probably really hard to implement such economy well since it takes a lot of time and dedication or even some people to watch over it while the game is running.
I know many people will this find hard to believe that someone actually likes these aspects of the game, but well I am kinda different.
Thanks
Overwatch had this problem for a long time. There were a lot of healers and tanks you could choose and play. But the truth is if you wanted to actually wanted to win you had to have a Reinhart and Mercy as the tank and healer. Having other healers or tanks instead of those would mean your team was significantly disadvantaged.
WoW had the same problem for a long time too in Arena for 3v3s. There were many possible compositions but the truth was only like 4-5 were actually viable for winning.
I know its hard to get it right the first time so please have constant patches improving the balance of the game. Weekly and detailed updates mean keeping your audience as Fornite does, 2-3 month mediocre updates like Apex means stagnating meta and loss of Audience. Don't be afraid to change things that are not working.
Even if you regulate the black market it is still P2W and ppl with big credit cards will still buy theyr way up. Imo the only way to fully prevent P2W is taking a hard stance against it from the start aswell as fighting bots. I feel it will still be possible to buy gold with irl money in AoC tho, but only in very small amounts and for a high price since sellers have to buy a sub and cant bot.
Stuff for groups with 2-10 players are nice, its easier to comunicate, lead and to find players. Guild content are nice too, if possible. For larger groups there should be minor or no gear requeriment, or we will wait for days until find someone.
And last, some people are too shy or nobody likes then, so they want to play alone, should be a way, harder or with less rewards, whatever.
PvE
First:
Open world non-organised experience
Best experience i had yet - Guild Wars 2 - open world events pretty (that really important) intuitevly tell you how your non-organised group should cooperate, in order to complete event
Example: GW2 Any event | Dragons Stand map | Auric Basin map:
any event:
for example there is an elite mob with some easy tactic like: croud control when it is channeling, avoid big red circles in order to win, use combat system for your adventage
Dragons Stand:
There are 3 ways through whole map, all players should divide into 3 large groups (20+ players) and clean each way in several steps, each step takes certain ammount of time, and players should clean its own way and help other ways
In the end all ways unite and player face legendary epic boss
Auric Basic:
4 Sides of city have unique boss with unique mechanics, all players should kill all 4 bosses simultaneously, or they will restore 1\3 of their HP
Second:
Group experience (5-8ppl):
I don't think i had plenty of really good group experience: best of it was in WoW in hardcore 5ppl dungeons, and still i don't think that was best experience
Third:
Raid experience (10+ppl):
Best organised group experience i've had - its really awesome to cooperate in hardcore manner with other people
i don't have really cool PvP experience (l2 included)
Гильдия Wanderers Corp
Мы обитаем в Дискорде
А также на youtube
Talking to others' while playing is fun as well, it makes me feel like I am in more of an active community.
1. I want to be able to do the main story quests as a group. So many times I've loaded into a fresh mmo with a friend, and it's ages before there's actually a reason or way to play together meaningfully. It becomes a single player RPG until I hit level cap. Being able to experience the main quest together creates a co-op environment instantly and it's much more enjoyable right from the get-go.
2. Some of the most fun I've had with groups have been when knowledgeable veterans step up and lead something unique in the open world. For example, Maybe someone knows the most efficient farming route for certain resource nodes, and they lead a train of people to gather those items daily. Or someone knows the timing of particular elite mob spawns, and they help players get those kills. In some games I've played guilds specialized in killing a particular world boss every day, and they would help players coordinate what needed to happen over voice for the community. Making things like this easier for these individuals would be awesome. A clean group UI with leadership identifiers, markers in the world only visible to the group, easy location sharing in chat, and extra visible ways for leaders to communicate with their squad would all be great. Essentially extending the raiding functionality into the open world for creative player use.
One example that always excites me:
These are the kind of things I would love to see in Ashes. If the dungeons follow the same system as the nodes, then when a new one is unlocked it would be unique to not only that area, but unique to the server as well. It's just speculation, but I can't wait to see what is hidden for players to find!
As far as the more casual aspects of the game, I've always preferred systems where regular questing/grinding can be done as a small group without losing efficiency, but doesn't explicitly require actually joining a stranger's party in order to magically be entitled to credit for for kills. So for the day to day mob grinding, getting first tag or last hit shouldn't lock people out of kill credit in busy areas unless it's some kind of special mob that somehow warrants a competitive questing mindset (like in pvp focused areas). With the cooperative mindset around nodes (ie we're all killing these mobs to try to level up the nearby node for mutual benefit), it doesn't make sense to feel annoyed that someone outside your abstract concept of a 'party' helped you achieve that common goal by attacking an enemy you got to first.
Obviously, creating things that people want to compete over to create organic conflict is important, but I think that's best left to things like caravans, resource nodes, and certain rare world bosses. As long as players only feel 'obligated' to join a party when the content is significantly more meaningful than the typical grind, you'll be far less likely to alienate the players who prefer the freedom of soloing basic content at their own pace.
Free form world design can help in nudging players towards a slow paced mindset, but I'm unfortunately not well versed in how world design affects player behaviour. The only example I can think of to study is Minecraft.
I'd like them to stick to their original plan and not cave. No groupfinder, no porting to group or dungeon, all the stuff that was debated and put out pre-Margaret should not just be thrown out now that bringing in people that have worked on other games that implemented different systems to try and change the core of what people have been here from the beginning have been waiting on. They are approaching the jump point where they can no longer middle-of-the-road this stuff and have to swerve right or left. "we plan on doing amazing things and everyone will be happy" is not going to cut it for another year without some concrete gameplay in peoples itching trigger fingers.
Now a group cannot be too large because the larger the group the more it causes people to go back into their shells with only the most boisterous being heard. I think a group of 3-5 maximum is the perfect balance to cater for everyone....peace out.
It was amazing because we had fun, we joked around and teased one another. I was a good tank and thus felt myself important.
I would like raids and dungs in AoC to also make me feel necessary for the group.
If we get small groups I hope theyre as far as possible from mm+ in wow.
Mm+ was the most tedious content Ive played and eventually spamming the same dungs led me to quit.
You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
Ideal User Interface:
Ideal Group Dynamics:
Group makeup needs some diversity, if the paladin you brought to fight the skeletons isn't working, try bringing a rogue to sneak past.
I'm not one for raiding, seems too much like work to me. If you want to get casual players like me to try and keep raiding don't make it so mechanical. Make the fight hinge on a quicktime like event instead of a 30 minute slog were one mistake dooms you to failure.
I don't use dungeon or group finders let whomever is in the right place at the right time group up if they want or because they have to.
Guilds that group should make their own rules on how their groups work or more likely other guild groups will be more than happy to show them what doesn't work and don't miss the siege cause you can't get out of the dungeon.
Keep group size at 8, I like big groups makes my mistakes smaller, if you want to travel with a smaller group good for you, just know that it'll be harder or impossible for you.
Groups are what I play mmorpgs for, I want AoC to show me something new.
As much as I hate to admit it, a game's success almost entirely depends on the other people in the game and what they bring to (or take away from) the game itself. If you have a bunch of people who don't like to socialize, but are forced to do group content for whatever reason (quest, item drop, progression, etc.), it'll be very easy to experience the more toxic or not-fun players.
It sounds like Ashes of Creation is doing a great job considering all possible aspects of an MMORPG and how dynamic the experience can be - especially for "grouping". Whether it be for PvE or PvP.
My ideal group experience would be something more closely related to playing Dungeons and Dragons. If I'm out exploring and I come across a hidden Dragon's lair, I want to be able to gather a few trustworthy friends and check it out. The key there is "trust". If we kill the big bad evil guy, or dragon in this case, I imagine there's going to be lots of loot. I don't think there should be any loot-box or loot-table. I want it to be out in the open, able to be picked up by anybody. This also means that if I'm sneaky enough, I should be able to steal it, even without killing the dragon. Of course, as a dragon is bound to their treasure, I expect him to chase me until one of us is dead - but maybe that could be a part of the encounter, and he can only be killed by something already in his possession? Who knows? I love the idea! Even if there's a way to have people with a max "sleight of hand" skill, and steal from under other's noses... If I don't know about it, I won't be mad! But if I see it, I want to be able to bop him right there and feed him to the nearest dragon.
To play devil's advocate, and put a little realism in to the equation: If there's that many people in the world, and many people know about it... what's to stop them from killing you immediately after you kill the "boss", and steal all the loot? Or a "friend" betraying you and the last second and swiping all of the loot and leaving you with none of it? One of the best examples I had came from a game called Nexus TK (I probably reference it way too much). Whoever killed it (solo player, or the group), was allowed to pick up the loot. If another player comes along, he/she can't steal it until after a certain amount of time had passed (I think 10-30min in this case), then anybody was allowed to pick it up. Though, if somebody within the group swiped it, then drama would ensue... but there was an in-game justice system (partially run by players) to hopefully deter people from stealing from the group. It was still possible, though! Even if they were caught, found guilty, and imprisoned for a period of time... at the end of the day, they'd still have the loot - but there'd be a red-mark on their character legend that let everybody know that they were a thief.
Half of the mechanics seemed to be designed to prevent invisible rogues from swiping everything from everybody before they could get to it... but then again, they also called Rogue's the "path of riches" for that reason, too.
One of the pillars of the game is "meaningful conflict". I'm not sure loot division falls in that category in everybody's mind, but it's possible. On the other hand - having people constantly steal your stuff would be a game-ruining experience... so it's tough to balance.
tl:dr - I want the ultimate freedom, but the outcome is going to depend on other players. Good players in groups = good experience. Bad players in groups = bad experience.
Groups should offer benefits for playing well together. Nothing is more ragey than getting into a group and someone goes griefer. This will always happen, but the party system should encourage good player behavior to minimize it and then should have mechanics for dealing with a griefer.
casual challenge/hardcore time
I am fashion over function when it comes to gear. And I would rather wipe a bunch of times while figuring out how to successfully win the challenge with the gear and abilities the players with me like to use rather than efficiently winning the challenge as quickly as possible with cookie-cutter gear/abilities/tactics.
My bartle score is:
Explorer 87; Socializer 73; Achiever 47; Killer 0
Since killing is the easiest and quickest way to advance progression in MMORPGs, I do kill stuff, of course.
But, in pen and paper D&D, I typically attempt to use Stealth and Diplomacy skills to avoid combat as much as possible. And, I usually have some alts working the Carebear Challenge to reach max level with no kills whatsoever.
My ideal group would be filled with casual challenge players who are Explorer/Socializers or Socializer/Explorers.
I don't enjoy playing in groups with Killer/Achievers and Achiever/Killers and they don't enjoy grouping with me. So, it would be nice to be able to easily figure out which players have similar/compatible playstyles.
Maybe as part of the character sheets we have available to publicly display outside of the game.
My ideal combat group would consist of players from my Node who I enjoy hanging out with.
Hopefully, over time, I will know where in the Node their homes are so we can easily find each other when we're online. And, hopefully, we will have learned how to support and synergize each others' combat tactics.
A group experience I hate in NWO was the party telling me to have my Ice Wizard start using Repel abilities because those were more efficient for the dungeon we were in. I argued that the role I'm playing is an Ice Wizard; not a Repel Wizard, but, for them, efficient function trumped roleplaying (character acting).
I would much rather wipe a bunch of times to figure out how to clear the dungeon as best we can with a player roleplaying an Ice Wizard - figure out how to maximize the effectiveness of their ice abilities - than try to force them to use Repel abilities.
Just as I wouldn't want a Necromancer in my group to be told they need to switch to Beastmaster because that's more efficient for a specific dungeon.
The devs want a typical party to be an 8-person party with one of each primary archetype. Which is OK (although, I'm somewhat concerned about the time that might take to form for casual time players).
But, I would also like to have challenges designed for 4+ Tanks or 4+ Clerics or 4+ Rogues... etc.
So far, though, we're all thinking about ideal groups for dungeons and raids - 8-person party and 40-person raid.
I wish we had enough info from the devs to contemplate ideal "groups" for defending and attacking caravans - and ideal "groups" for crafting, sieges and monster coin attacks. "Groups" in quotes because we shouldn't have to be in a party or a raid in order to contribute to and participate in those challenges.
GW2 sort of does this with their combo fields and finishing moves, but in all honesty they were very much a "neat side-effect" that was never really relied upon. The effects of the combos were either buffs that were already accounted for, or were so situational that it was hard to find a use for them.
Tell that to the dot warrior build that i am running xD. It depends on me synergizing my aoe effects with my secondary weapon