Economy node overpowered?

hulkmaster

Hi! there are just my personal thoughts on the topic

I'm just thinking that "auction" feature might become "move-point" of the whole server

It just sounds like whole server might move towards economic metropolice the moment "global" auction appears, because auction thing is pretty useful for making money and trading staff (wow, obviously ).

And at that point whole server might just think "hm, i can make my life much easier with auction, or keep sticking with other node"

That might result in situation, when "mass" will be on side of first economic metropolice

Just my personal thoughts thou

Azathoth

I don't know about any of that, but of course it is possible. However, I think the same thing could be said (to some extent) about fast travel in the Scientific Metropolis. We don't know for sure what the other nodes offer, but i think the Religious ones will have a big draw too.

Overpowered might be an over estimate at this point.

Damokles

Well you have to think about it from a different perspective:
Will you be able to make massive amounts of money in a economy node playing the auction game? Yes, Yes you will.

Will you be able to master you artisancraft? No, no you will not.

Will you be able to advance your faith, to recieve the different blessings from you god/goddess? No, No you will not.

It all depends on the perspective. You could say that Science nodes are overpowered because we can fkn TELEPORT BETWEEN NODES! Hello? That is REALLY strong if you need to move troops between your metropolis and the nodes in its ZoI.

Lets count what a scientific node gives to its inhabitants:
-Enchantment stones neccessary for trinket creation
-Relic and Legendary Crafting Benches
-Legendary Freehold Schematic Certificates
-specialization in artisan classes leading to the player unlocking special class abilities
-if there are multiple metropolis scientific nodes then they get an AIRSHIP THAT TRAVELS BETWEEN THEM
-Unique and Rare drop information for surrounding areas
-Runic Power Stones for weapons
-Component identification for non-Legendary item deconstruction
-Locations and last known quantity of gatherable resources
-Locations and inhabitants of new Dungeons or POIs (Points of Interest) that have spawned



Lets recap: Yes economy nodes can generate massive amounts of income. Yes, that is REALLY strong. But the other nodes wont loose against that. Scientific nodes can: Teleport, knows where resources recently spawned, tells you exactly where dungeons are/spawned, let you specialize in your artisan class, and they are the only ones where you will be able to enchant your weapons, armour and trinkets. Think about that!

hulkmaster

Yes, you are both totally correct

1) we don't know powers of other nodes
2) teleport through every node is also power thing

But what about mass players consciousness?
Because mass teleport is good and everything, but being able to buy good staff from auction?

Obviously its hardly discussable topic, but it just seems like mass players might stick to economy metropolice

(PS damokles, love your sig )

Jahlon

damokles wrote: »

Will you be able to master you artisancraft? No, no you will not.

You will actually be able to master your artisan craft without a Scientific Metro, it will just be harder.

From the DCN Podcast in April when Steven was a guest:

"Yes you will be able to not only learn advance and progress within the artisan tree regardless of the scientific note but there are certain mastery benefits that are granted even though those masteries can be achieved elsewhere it's a much more difficult path in order to do so and the masteries may not present the same results and/or yields that scientific masteries can be attained but it is possible yes"

https://youtu.be/QfIqO3bivro?t=2532

Damokles

@jahlon
oh nice, didnt know that!

@hulkmaster
What is more interesting for the mass consciousness? Trading that you can do in other places of the city with a bit of footwork, or running from node to node vs just teleporting? ;D

I think that casual players would rather teleport then shop from one place inside the node. A centralized auctionhouse is more important for players that are actually "playing" the auctionhouse game.

hulkmaster

@damokles thats a totally discuaable topic, i agree

Its just "Seems" like players might prefer having auction "because its handy!"

Damokles

@hulkmaster

Azathoth

Yeah, I think you are putting too much emphasis on how you feel. I think once the military node is defined more that 'most' players will want to live there. But, that's just my opinion. For me buying and selling in a Metro is nice, but I can do that everywhere, and since even with the auction house you have to go to node where the goods are for sale I am not sure it matters much to me.

Varkun

The whole server coming under the say of economic nodes just for a global auction house might happen but doubt it there are always those who just want to watch the world burn and would resist such a thing happening.

Personally, I don't think this will be a concern but it is going to be interesting to see how each server develops.

FriendlyZombie

Imagine if a militaristic node becomes a “murder guild” (similar to the Laughing Coffin from Sword Art Online) and just decides to destroy economic nodes to ruin the server!

Ferryman

@hulkmaster Imo your concern is valid. If there will be a superior economic/trading centre, most players will use that to get better benefits. So there is a risk that this might hurt a lot smaller local economies. At least it will have some negative impact.

hulkmaster

the problem might be about "massivness"

if 80% player will prefer to stick to "economy model" - sounds like at least in terms of node development "auction" node might be leading

Juanchi

FriendlyZombie wrote: »

Imagine if a militaristic node becomes a “murder guild” (similar to the Laughing Coffin from Sword Art Online) and just decides to destroy economic nodes to ruin the server!

No sense in saying "Ruin the server" imo, this is a game where ppl build their world, so if anything like that happen im sure some other Node will be up to war them and it will be a major/epic event in that server, that is one of the strong points in this game.

Blackhearted

The usefulness of economic nodes depends completely on how trading without it works. If you can leave ur char in charge of a stall when u log off, or leave buy and sell ads, the eco node wont be mattering much. You could even merch without it and probably with higher margins.

Wandering Mist

I'll wait until we have all the information on each node type before deciding if any of them are overpowered. What I will say though is that a big factor to consider is the distribution of resources around the world. It's all very well saying "we are going to build up to a level 6 economic node" but if the resources you need for your trade aren't in that node's zone of influence, then there's no point advancing that node too much. Would you rather have a level 6 economic node in a desert, or a level 6 military node in a lush forest?

grisu

There are so many unanswered questions concerning nodes overall.
You should never forget that a mayor can decide on certain buildings to build. Which buildings you ask? Noone knows.
>>MY<< guess is that you can supplement some of those functions a nodes unique building offers that way. The challenge for mayors will be to decide what's actually useful for this node specifically.

I just can't see to shake this feeling that it would be too polarizing to
-ONLY have mules ever available in economic nodes.
-ONLY have runic power stones available in scientific nodes.

I obviously don't know that for certain, but I think it's a reasonable guess considering they said that it's not impossible to get ||Profession Mastery qualifications|| without a T6 science node, it's just a lot harder. That might be what the player chosen buildings can do for your node.

So in my head it's more like "have this node and get all these functions for free". "Want this other stuff? Well you will have to specifically build it which costs building slots that you might want for other things, ressources, time, collective effort and so on".

It's a co-operative world, you will have to look and see what is available around you and plan for what oyu really need.

hulkmaster

Its not only

blackhearted wrote: »

The usefulness of economic nodes depends completely on how trading without it works. If you can leave ur char in charge of a stall when u log off, or leave buy and sell ads, the eco node wont be mattering much. You could even merch without it and probably with higher margins.

totally agree
but imagine you are just some random player, and you have a choice - search for specific items/recources manually, or use "auction" system?
sounds like its more handy

wanderingmist wrote: »

I'll wait until we have all the information on each node type before deciding if any of them are overpowered. What I will say though is that a big factor to consider is the distribution of resources around the world. It's all very well saying "we are going to build up to a level 6 economic node" but if the resources you need for your trade aren't in that node's zone of influence, then there's no point advancing that node too much. Would you rather have a level 6 economic node in a desert, or a level 6 military node in a lush forest?

as far as i understood - every node will NOT be self-sufficient. You (node/mayor) will have to trade with other nodes no matter what

ArgentDawn

My question is if your using a global auction house but the items are for sale 4 nodes away I'm assuming you'll either need to go to where the items are to pick them up after purchase or have them carted to you through a caravan?

grisu

In order to bid, they must still travel to the Auction House in the Parent Node.

- Economy node blog post

So you have to go there to bid anyway, I would assume you have to pick up those ressources there. Maybe you can pay a fee for delivery of smaller amounts while larger amounts automatically need caravans.
Who knows, lot's of intricate detail questions we will hopefully get answered when the node overview is done.

@hulkmaster Nodetrade is seperate from player trading. It's node diplomacy. To simplyfy it's more like a gathering quest initiated for the normal player to enhance node progression.
You don't need it, but it certainly helps. Either way you don't need an auction house or economy node for that.

Wandering Mist

argentdawn wrote: »

My question is if your using a global auction house but the items are for sale 4 nodes away I'm assuming you'll either need to go to where the items are to pick them up after purchase or have them carted to you through a caravan?

I would assume so, otherwise the caravan system would cease to be used as soon as an economic node reached level 6.

@hulkmaster From what I'm reading, that is the dev's intention and the system is designed for nodes to trade with others. However, depending on how resources are distributed in the world, this might not be necessary. If all the resources you need can be found in a single zone of influence, there will be no need to trade with any other node.

Really, we don't yet know enough about the world to make an informed decision. Until players actually get into the game and find out what resources they need, it's incredibly hard to predict what will happen.

Damokles

I hereby petition that we all try to raise two scientific nodes on the farthest reaches of the map.
The zeppelin connection should cut traveltime for everyone in half! XD

hulkmaster

grisu wrote: »

In order to bid, they must still travel to the Auction House in the Parent Node.

- Economy node blog post

So you have to go there to bid anyway, I would assume you have to pick up those ressources there. Maybe you can pay a fee for delivery of smaller amounts while larger amounts automatically need caravans.
Who knows, lot's of intricate detail questions we will hopefully get answered when the node overview is done.

@hulkmaster Nodetrade is seperate from player trading. It's node diplomacy. To simplyfy it's more like a gathering quest initiated for the normal player to enhance node progression.
You don't need it, but it certainly helps. Either way you don't need an auction house or economy node for that.

SUPERPOWER
Each Node Type has a Superpower granted to the Node. These abilities become unlocked when the Node reaches Level 6 (Metropolis Stage). They are intended to change the dynamics of the game significantly.

ECONOMIC SUPERPOWER - LINKED ECONOMY
Economic Nodes that have reached the Metropolis Stage unlock the Superpower “Linked Economy”. Any Economic Node with this Superpower unlocked shares Auction House listings with all the others, meaning that the items listed in one Linked Economy Node can be bid on from any other Linked Economy Node. Linked Economies also connect a Metropolis and any Vassal Economic Nodes belonging to that Metropolis.

about delivering items - that was not speficied anywhere, so its hard to discuss, but yeah, delivering thing might be valuable thing, but again, what's easier:
to have to travel between nodes
or to know where to take your item?

Really, we don't yet know enough about the world to make an informed decision. Until players actually get into the game and find out what resources they need, it's incredibly hard to predict what will happen.

Thats true
But i think its worth thinking about it

hulkmaster

damokles wrote: »

I hereby petition that we all try to raise two scientific nodes on the farthest reaches of the map.
The zeppelin connection should cut traveltime for everyone in half! XD

i think it will be really fun, when guilds will split among server and server diplomacy will be already going on

OrcLuck

Any economy node doesn't sound like its that defensible maybe they will have to pay for protection.