To soul bound or not to soul bound?

I have played both types of games, one where you didn't have anything soul bounded to you, and if you died you had to return to your body to claim everything you were carrying. Also, I played games where you didn't lose anything, you died you kept everything on your body.

With both systems, your items did wear out over time of use, and you could have them repaired.

Now IMO nothing in AoC should be soul bounded to you, you die you should run the risk of losing it all. Now I also understand some people don't have that risk, so I would add why not add enchantments to you items that last for a set amount of time if you die you don't lose the items you have insured with the said spell. This spell crafted by players in the game of course, and it's time limit set by how good the caster is with their craft.

I have this understanding that you can only repair items so many times in the game, so why make it soul bound if after so much time it's unless? That brings up another point, why not have special places in the game, where you can remake any items that lose their DURABILITY after so many uses. I am sure people with legendary items would love to keep them in top shape, so if you have items rated at zero after you have used them a long time, traveling to a special place in the game, where crafters can remake them to 100%, or maybe have it a learned special skill only the top level crafters can do after they find the special scrolls. Get an idea.

The hole soul bound items have its use, but I feel you need some risk vs reward in the game, if you know you can lose your stuff without taking steps to protect it, then that mistake should fall on the players' heads, and not be a system placed on the game world automatically. One where you can't lose your best stuff, but what's the point if you have top gear if you wear it out, which will keep you from using it we going to wear it out to zero.
Just tossing out some food for thought on the topic. What do you guys think?

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Jahlon

We already know its not going to be like what you are describing.

The only time you will drop weapons, armor, gear, etc is when you are corrupted and you die.

When you die in PvP you will drop a percentage of your gatherables (including things you gather with the artisan classes and things you loot off mobs like wolf pelts/deer antlers, etc)

If you die as a combatant you drop 50% as much as if you die as a non-combatant.

granthor

Well, I am hoping we can change it a little, not is set in stone after all. If enough people request a change, we might get one.

Amist

I'm actually pretty content with the way Ashes is going to approach this. I don't think it's going to feel good in practice to be able to lose your gear when dying unless you've gathered a lot of corruption.

When I think soulbound items I don't really look at it as you being unable to lose them, but moreso unable to trade them with other players.

granthor

That's

branegames wrote: »

I'm actually pretty content with the way Ashes is going to approach this. I don't think it's going to feel good in practice to be able to lose your gear when dying unless you've gathered a lot of corruption.

When I think soulbound items I don't really look at it as you being unable to lose them, but moreso unable to trade them with other players.

That's fair, but if you run into a very rare item, but it's soul bound, and you can't use it. Why can't we have an option to sell it on the open market? It's something I ran into a few times on other games.

Amist

granthor wrote: »

That's

branegames wrote: »

I'm actually pretty content with the way Ashes is going to approach this. I don't think it's going to feel good in practice to be able to lose your gear when dying unless you've gathered a lot of corruption.

When I think soulbound items I don't really look at it as you being unable to lose them, but moreso unable to trade them with other players.

That's fair, but if you run into a very rare item, but it's soul bound, and you can't use it. Why can't we have an option to sell it on the open market? It's something I ran into a few times on other games.

Since we know that crafting will be the primary source of gear, trading it on the market (when it's a drop) would kind of defeat the purpose

Damokles

Steven once said this:
"Power creep is a balance issue... When it comes to gear progression specifically, the idea is to create an open market that is not heavily dependent on soulbound items; and having many item sinks and gold sinks within that economy that allows for the potential degradation and loss of assets within that closed economy; and not introduce items from the marketplace that companies put in from a pay-to-win perspective or from a pay-to-convenience perspective that undermines the economy that players have built. That is a huge mistake that companies have made in the past and that lends to the imbalancing of what designers maybe have actually balanced well."

Items will also degrade with use and wont be able to repair after a specific amount of repairs. The amount of repairs will depend on the rarity of the items, with legendaries being indestructable.

Jahlon

That's fair, but if you run into a very rare item, but it's soul bound, and you can't use it. Why can't we have an option to sell it on the open market?

^ This situation won't happen.

Jahlon

granthor wrote: »

Well, I am hoping we can change it a little, not is set in stone after all. If enough people request a change, we might get one.

If you are trying to set it up where players will drop armor/weapons/gear when they die when they aren't corrupted, then sorry my friend but Steven pretty much has set in stone the game isn't full loot drop.

That would be one of those changes that if they changed it now, would put the community into an uproar.

Azathoth

I like how Ashes is currently slated to handle this. I would also not be in favor of having to pay caster characters (pc or npc) to cast a spell on my favorite gear so if I die nobody can take it.

unknownsystemerror

They have said that very few items will be "soulbound". As Jahlon mentioned above, the only time you will be dropping items is when you have exceeded that level of corruption. Then, even legendary items have a chance of dropping. There is no reason to add a spell to protect your items from dropping, since that won't happen unless you have made that choice to put yourself in that particular danger through repeated actions that you know are putting you in that state. Risk v Reward. Player agency. I can throw out a few more catchphrases that have been used.

grisu

granthor wrote: »

(...)
The hole soul bound items have its use, but I feel you need some risk vs reward in the game, if you know you can lose your stuff without taking steps to protect it(...)

As people said, you can lose your items through corruption, but you can also lose them if you fail to maintain them. If your item hits zero durability it's destroyed. That's universally true for Ashes. You always have a risk of losing your items if you are careless.
This feels like just another post of "I want other peoples stuff by killing them" in disguise, which in my opinion is stupid and there is not a single game out there were it works.
Also I don't know a single game were soul bound is used to prevent items from dropping, it's always used so you can't resell it. Curious were that thought comes from.

jodypse

In my RPG games "soulbound", or bound by life-force, is in place to unlock an items magical properties for a character and once bound the item can still be given or sold, and used by anyone else BUT the magical properties will not unlock for another character. The item is with magical means harmonized to the character's specific life energy and then locked in place. This costs life--energy to do, aka experience gain used on this, to affect.
Of course as it's an RPG and not MMORPG the item can be unlocked again in our game, something which if implemented in an MMORPG probably should not be doable.

That kind of Soulbound item I'd not mind at all. You have to put some of your experience gained into it to unlock it (possibly being able to unlock additional levels with more Experience costs), and you can still lose it via Corruption drop or after it's durability is gone, though as a Magical item it could be a bit, or a lot, sturdier than normal items, having magic to reinforce it.

The other kind, basically only meant to "lock" an item to a specific character, I don't like, never have.

Atama

Many cosmetic items are soulbound but that’s to prevent people from buying them from the Ashes Store with real life cash then selling or trading them in the game to gain a mechanical advantage (getting in-game money or trading for gear). That’s one way the game stays away from being pay-to-win. And I’m happy with that.

unknownsystemerror

Find or craft a kickass sword? Throw that Kickstarter limited skin on it to make it shiny.(soulbound) Want to sell it? Take the skin off and list it in the available market or spam the ever present chat channel that people will use for that.(not soulbound)

granthor

branegames wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

That's

branegames wrote: »

I'm actually pretty content with the way Ashes is going to approach this. I don't think it's going to feel good in practice to be able to lose your gear when dying unless you've gathered a lot of corruption.

When I think soulbound items I don't really look at it as you being unable to lose them, but moreso unable to trade them with other players.

That's fair, but if you run into a very rare item, but it's soul bound, and you can't use it. Why can't we have an option to sell it on the open market? It's something I ran into a few times on other games.

Since we know that crafting will be the primary source of gear, trading it on the market (when it's a drop) would kind of defeat the purpose

The type of drop I am talking about, are the ones you gain from a Dungeon boss or world boss, and anything that takes a good fight to beat when you're out on adventures. Crafted items will still be something that drives the markets, but to gain that special drop is still something people love to get.

granthor

azathoth wrote: »

I like how Ashes is currently slated to handle this. I would also not be in favor of having to pay caster characters (pc or npc) to cast a spell on my favorite gear so if I die nobody can take it.

I remember back when I played UO, not only did you run the risk of players looting your dead body, but the NPC monsters would loot an item from your body too. It was hardcore but still had it's level of heart-pumping pull out your hair level of risk. I understand people don't want that level of risk, but at the same time IMO we still need some level of risk in the game. Even if it's a little risk, vs none at all.

granthor

grisu wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

(...)
The hole soul bound items have its use, but I feel you need some risk vs reward in the game, if you know you can lose your stuff without taking steps to protect it(...)

As people said, you can lose your items through corruption, but you can also lose them if you fail to maintain them. If your item hits zero durability it's destroyed. That's universally true for Ashes. You always have a risk of losing your items if you are careless.
This feels like just another post of "I want other peoples stuff by killing them" in disguise, which in my opinion is stupid and there is not a single game out there were it works.
Also I don't know a single game were soul bound is used to prevent items from dropping, it's always used so you can't resell it. Curious were that thought comes from.

I am mixing games over my years of playing. UO was the game I played where you could lose everything not in the bank or in your home locked away. Be it a player or monster, if it was on your body, it could be looted.

WoW is another game I have played, and mainly you lost nothing when you died in that game, you also gain both soul bound and non-soul bound items, A lot of times you gained an item as a drop that was bound to you, and if you couldn't use it oh well. Your only option was to sell it to the NPC vendors. There were times I would have loved to sell these items on the auction and gain a few million in gold vs the few 100 from NPCs.

Roko

As a merchant first and foremost. One of my most hated things in WoW was not being able to trade the good stuff from raids and quests. So I liked when Intrepid announced that most things in game will be tradeable and soulbinding will be the exception rather than the rule. Yes I don't like that there will still be some soulbinding but nothing is ever perfect. I understand that's the way they are designing it and I guess I can only wait and see how it ends up playing.

Azathoth

@granthor I am glad you enjoyed your days of UO. But this is not that, and I didn't back UO because of what they said they would do in the KS. (Yes, I obviously know they didn't have one, part of my point).

If that is the risk you require, I am sure they are games that are designed to be full loot. So the UO comparison might fit better there.

There is risk. If I dont want to PvP and I choose to gather, I risk being engaged in PvP and losing my gather-ables. I know that is only if I lose, and I don't plan on losing, but it does happen.

If I decide I want to be a merchant and make bank by running a caravan. There is risk. That is part of the game.

I would consider both of these Some level of risk. Hopefully you can enjoy that level of risk too. I don't see why Ashes would have to implement more risk.

If I want to have a castle, there is risk.
If I want a freehold, there is risk if my parent node experiences a siege.
If I am exploring, there is risk of unwanted PvP (not non-consensual, but thats a different thread).

I don't consider adding full loot or increasing the supposed amount of possible loot after PvP or PvE death increasing risk. To me that changes the game to a different type of game where the risk would be different.

For me, your point was odd. Sorry.

grisu

granthor wrote: »

branegames wrote: »

granthor wrote: »

That's

branegames wrote: »

I'm actually pretty content with the way Ashes is going to approach this. I don't think it's going to feel good in practice to be able to lose your gear when dying unless you've gathered a lot of corruption.

When I think soulbound items I don't really look at it as you being unable to lose them, but moreso unable to trade them with other players.

That's fair, but if you run into a very rare item, but it's soul bound, and you can't use it. Why can't we have an option to sell it on the open market? It's something I ran into a few times on other games.

Since we know that crafting will be the primary source of gear, trading it on the market (when it's a drop) would kind of defeat the purpose

The type of drop I am talking about, are the ones you gain from a Dungeon boss or world boss, and anything that takes a good fight to beat when you're out on adventures. Crafted items will still be something that drives the markets, (...)

World dungeon and raidbosses will mainly drop ressources to craft those items. Thats a big point of Ashes in the first place.
High end gear comes mainly from crafting, not the other way around.
So in combination that every item can be lost through death and neglectance i dont see the worries.

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