Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Should these mechanics be a thing in Ashes PvP combat ?
Wololo
Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
So I think GW2 has the best PvP combat from any game i played before. It got me hooked since release, trying to reach leggy every sezon. The reason being that alot of mechanics in that game add to skillcap. And even tho everybody got the same gear strength in PvP, it is actually possible to win a 1v2 or 1v3 vs the same geared players or even same classes IF you utilize all minor advantages in combat. I feel Ashes is going in that direction too wich is nice but there are 3 points i cant find enough info on to confirm and I wonder for a long time alrdy how the community thinks about these;
-iFrames on dodge and jump-dodge.
A well timed evade frame in dodge can avoid burst from multiple players but only if one has the experience and skill to predict it. I cant find any info if evade-frames on dodge will be a thing in Ashes?
Also using jump and dodge at the same time wich makes you move further away by the slightest when the dodge ends, the difference in distance can barely be noticed by eye. It is very hard to pull off but can make that little difference by jump-dodging over a gap of 2 objects etc. I just feld this adds alot to skillcap.
-Cancelling Skills.
So we know animation canceling will not be a thing in ashes, and that is wise because its just tedious to always have to cancle every skill for max dps. But what about canceling pre-cast during channel with escape or stowing weapon? It creates this mind game between players in PvP. One could channel a high value skill and bait out dodges (referring to first point) and blocks just to cancle it during cast. Ofcource on the flipside this will come with a cooldown on the skill like 1/3rd the cooldown it would have if you finished casted it. If you know for sure the skill will not hit and you are quick enough to cancle it imo thats a good thing.
-About Face/Mobility skills not needing a target.
The option to both turn your camera, and player 180° instantly is nice to have. I know its a simple mechanic to add to the game if Ashes is going for that. Even after release. But if you combine it with mobility skills not needing a target some very nice gameplay is possible. For example the ranger rollback.. you could instead of rolling backwards and shooting one arrow: Untarget the enemy>Turn around>'Rollback' towards the enemy>Cancle the cast of the Arrow you shoot after the roll (referring to second point)>Swap to melee weapon because you are standing close. Turning a kiting skill into a offensive one. I bet next to the mage ports there will be more of those mobility skills porting sideways or in a angle or slightly up. The possibilitie's are endless. But to make it fluid i beleave such camera options are a must to have on hotkey.
Sorry for this wall of tekst
Do these 3 points make sence ? or are they toxic ? I am curious to what yall think 
-iFrames on dodge and jump-dodge.
A well timed evade frame in dodge can avoid burst from multiple players but only if one has the experience and skill to predict it. I cant find any info if evade-frames on dodge will be a thing in Ashes?
Also using jump and dodge at the same time wich makes you move further away by the slightest when the dodge ends, the difference in distance can barely be noticed by eye. It is very hard to pull off but can make that little difference by jump-dodging over a gap of 2 objects etc. I just feld this adds alot to skillcap.
-Cancelling Skills.
So we know animation canceling will not be a thing in ashes, and that is wise because its just tedious to always have to cancle every skill for max dps. But what about canceling pre-cast during channel with escape or stowing weapon? It creates this mind game between players in PvP. One could channel a high value skill and bait out dodges (referring to first point) and blocks just to cancle it during cast. Ofcource on the flipside this will come with a cooldown on the skill like 1/3rd the cooldown it would have if you finished casted it. If you know for sure the skill will not hit and you are quick enough to cancle it imo thats a good thing.
-About Face/Mobility skills not needing a target.
The option to both turn your camera, and player 180° instantly is nice to have. I know its a simple mechanic to add to the game if Ashes is going for that. Even after release. But if you combine it with mobility skills not needing a target some very nice gameplay is possible. For example the ranger rollback.. you could instead of rolling backwards and shooting one arrow: Untarget the enemy>Turn around>'Rollback' towards the enemy>Cancle the cast of the Arrow you shoot after the roll (referring to second point)>Swap to melee weapon because you are standing close. Turning a kiting skill into a offensive one. I bet next to the mage ports there will be more of those mobility skills porting sideways or in a angle or slightly up. The possibilitie's are endless. But to make it fluid i beleave such camera options are a must to have on hotkey.
Sorry for this wall of tekst
Do these 3 points make sence ? or are they toxic ? I am curious to what yall think 0
Comments
You say there won't be animation cancelling in Ashes. Do you have a source for that? I personally haven't heard anything about it, and having a game with no animation cancelling in it at all is very rare. Even if the devs don't intend for you to do it, I'm sure you can find a way.
I've never felt the need to use about face and camera manipulation hotkeys in combat, so I'm not too worried about them being in the game or not. All of my player and camera movement is done with the mouse, which works for me just fine.
I am also curious where you read that skill cancelling isn't in Ashes. I haven't read that personally.
It may not be intended, but I guarantee the players will find a way to do it.
@kayra Yes ! Having both projectile and hitscan feld great. Cant wait for this to develop when action and tab get combined.
Thanks for the reply's guys. Guess Il wait the testing out and hope for these things to be included :P
You talk about iframes in the OP, and that has a huge effect on the game. In GW2 you have iframes through the entire roll animation, and the combat is designed to make full use of this, creating a very reactionary experience. If you try to play that way in Dark Souls, you will die very very quickly (as I discovered when I tried playing Dark Souls 3 and couldn't beat the first boss). In Dark Souls you have very few iframes to work with because it's intended for you to read the attacks in advance and use the dodge roll to re-position, rather than use the iframes to avoid taking damage.
That one difference alone completely changes how the combat feels. I honestly don't expect the devs to tell us the intricacies of how the dodge rolling will work, so it will be up to the players to figure this stuff out when we get to test it.
Yes this.
GW2 PvP felt lack luster to me also because it wasn't about a team working together, it was all self sustained people who just happened to be fighting in the same place.
The actual fighting was great, and smooth/well built, but I couldn't shake how unfullfilling it felt to do things like WvW because it was just two swarms of ants running around and the map.
And don't get me started on the GW2 Culling system.... Cuz you know, we love getting hit by enemies we can't see.
That would make sense given how the rest of the combat works (from what we've seen/been told anyway). In GW2 there are very few skillshots so the dodge roll iframes are needed to avoid taking tons of damage from aoe. To balance this, you can only dodge twice in a row. On the other hand, in games like Monster Hunter World you can dodge a lot more often but don't have nearly as many iframes to use.
Then of course the devs tried to ham-fist tanking and healing into the game when the core system was never designed to support those roles. All in all it turned the game into a complete mess in my opinion.
It speaks volumes that there is a class in GW2 called the "Guardian" and the best build for that class is a full dps 2-hander build.
Anyways, I do hope that AoC has some form of active defense (block, dodge, parry) that you can use re-actively. And those things always work best when they can cancel other abilities. (Hopefully without making defensive animation cancelling super important to DPS... looking at you TERA tanks.) I don't think every character needs to have access to iframes or full-blocks by default, but I'd like it to be an option for most characters (maybe limited to certain subclasses). And I think it's pretty important in PvP to have some kind of personal, reactive defense tool (iframes or not) on every class. (Edit: I guess the style of PvP in FFXIV and WoW, centered around CC and healing for defense, is okay too, but I'd prefer something different.)
As in all things, it's best to put these defensive abilities on a spectrum (with trade-offs for the stronger ones), and give the players options.
The addition of spell collision, line of sight, tab Target and active targeting abilities with hit scans I don't see a need for iframes.
Thinking away from pvp I fully expect to see pve mechanics if performed improperly designed to kill you and having iframes is an easy way to cheese that.
@leonerdo The problem with GW2 is that the players cried out for raids and so the devs tried to put WoW-style raids into the game in the laziest way possible. The core gameplay was never really designed for group content and ham-fisting in "tanks" and healer specs into the game was a big mistake in my opinion.
As for active blocking, in APOC there is apparently a shield that allows you to actively block projectiles. I wonder if that will stay in the game or change at all. Parrying is also a weird one. In games like WoW it is just a chance to proc, but if they made it into a more active mechanic like in Dark Souls or Bloodborn, that can completely change the combat.
Ahhhhh, all these possibilities are driving my nerd-brain insane, and we aren't likely to get any answers for ages yet!!