Gathering

It has been said previously
“Certain low level gatherables will have a tiered progression into higher level crafting. So for example you know if I'm gathering... leaves of the blue petal flower to craft a pigment that's going to be used in the development of a tunic that I can wear at level one, then I may need to collect those in order to craft the pigments to craft a greater pigment that might be present in the in the crafting of a higher level item. So it's going to be kind of a tiered progression so that materials have relevancy throughout the different levels of of crafting; and that's important from an economic stability standpoint. You need to have layered demand from a supply standpoint so that players who are interested in collecting and gathering those materials still are relevant when the later level items are”

This has been done in Albion online and it results in the higher level players roaming areas and resources more suited to low levels. Destroying the low level players in pvp or simply outpacing them with their buffs and abilities from levels in order to reach low level resources. In turn, this means anyone not there from the launch will take a very long time to level their professions and likely never craft their level 1 blue flower robe.

Any thoughts on how to combat this?

Comments

  • LoBaneLoBane Member
    Maybe they should let those flowers grow in the high tier areas as well to lessen the high level players going to low level areas. As long as it makes sense that it’s growing in the high tier area.
    Unless the mana density applies to the lore.(low tier area=low mana density....high tier area=high mana density)
    Similar to Chinese cultivation novels where Qi density the higher area in strength they go. They usually have more powerful flower with similar but stronger effects.
  • damoklesdamokles Member
    I really like their idea. It makes low level ingredients worth farming, leading to a stronger economy.
    I have to agree with @LoBane that they should spawn low level ingredients in higher zones, that way high level players wont poach low level zones.
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  • zinniezinnie Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Yep, I think thats the way to do crafting honestly.
    Have a tiered system that uses all tiers to make low tier gathering materials useful at later levels.
    Say you make a Legendary Sword:
    1000 Tier 1 Ore
    500 Tier 2 Ore
    500 Tier 3 Ore
    250 Tier 4 Ore

    Thats just an example, but that would make even Tier 1 Materials viable in all crafting disciplines
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  • damoklesdamokles Member
    @zinnie
    Oh god please no. I get Guild Wars 2 flashbacks. 1.000.000 antique Wood blocks. 1.000.000! FOR ONE ITEM!
    I think that low tier resources should be used for rare crafted high level items only. Epic items should be created from epic materials (and maybe some low tier items used in the production of mentioned epic materials), while legendaries should only be craftable by truly legendary resources that are extremely rare, and each piece of these resources should be an adventure in itself to get.
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  • zinniezinnie Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    @damokles

    Problem is that you want lower tiered materials to be relevant throughout the games lifespan. A new player joining the game 2-3 years down the road picking up some tier 1 materials can still sell it on the marketplace because its being used in high tiered crafting.

    I know GW2 was a pain, but perhaps there is a way to implement a system to make lower tiered materials relevant in higher tiered crafting.
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  • damoklesdamokles Member
    @zinnie
    I want low level items be relevant too, but there is a better way then create a item sink in the tens of thousands.
    A better idea would be to use low tiered items in normal quantities, to create high tier items, like Steven said once. We do not need to grind thousands of items to create one good item, let it flow organically. Low tier items shouls not ever be on the same importance as high tier items, but they should be used to combine with other low tier items to result in higher tier items.
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  • wanderingmistwanderingmist Member, Founder
    damokles wrote: »
    I really like their idea. It makes low level ingredients worth farming, leading to a stronger economy.
    I have to agree with @LoBane that they should spawn low level ingredients in higher zones, that way high level players wont poach low level zones.

    The thing is, if I know mmorpg players they will take the path of least resistance (most of the time). So even if you put low level resources in high level zones, the players will still choose to farm in the low level zones to avoid having to fight high level mobs.

    The only way I can see it working is for the game to offer higher exp gains from farming in high level areas. This will encourage players to farm in as high level area as possible to get the best rewards.
  • damoklesdamokles Member
    @wanderingmist
    I know, but if lower tier ingredients spawned in higher zones, would lead to higher level palyers to automatically/passively farm these ingredients while leveling/questing.
    They also said that resource nodes will spawn randomly, and if we have to "share"(aka. Compete for them) those resources, then i think that higher level players would rather gather in the higher zones with less competition. ;)
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  • azathothazathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    Supposedly resources will spawn in a variety of areas so not one area can be constantly farmed. Perhaps they will sometimes be spawned in both low-tier areas (around low-level nodes) and high-tiered areas (around high-level nodes). This would allow those naturally in higher level areas the same amount of access as players in lower level areas.
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  • varkunvarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    Yes, harvested materials of "lower level" do need to be relevant at higher levels for a truly vibrant economy and I do hope AOC does implement this type of system. I do believe it has been hinted at a couple of time in different streams.

    We do know that materials will be depleted and it can take days weeks or even months before they may respawn in the same area thus the need to roam far and wide to obtain a constant supply. There will no doubt be seasonal factors that may also restrict supply along with the possibility of regional zones providing materials that require specific environmental conditions. It was even mentioned that the day-night cycle may affect the availability of some resources.

    The whole high-level low-level zones is a concept more in line with other MMO's as it has been suggested there will be more of a spread of levels within a node some high some low. The higher level a node becomes the higher the mobs within become though there will still be a spread of levels within the node.

    As for ganking low-level players, the corruption system should be some sort of deterrent as you kill a non-combatant far lower level than you and the corruption hit and potential gear loss might be more than the worth of any looted materials.
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  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 13
    I don't know if we should jump to compare this to albion but even in albion, i'd rather have to compete with high level players for resources then have those resources become useless. Even while competing, i can still farm resources and because they are useful, i can make a profit off them.
  • LoBaneLoBane Member
    I like the higher xp gain idea.
    Should add high resource gain off of one lower level resource node in the higher areas compared to the lower areas. Not a lot more just 1-2 more compared to low level areas.
  • argentdawnargentdawn Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 13
    -Removed-
  • LoBaneLoBane Member
    edited June 13
    The game is still being built and discussing these subjects might help improve the end product. Even if it’s just a small improvement.
  • elfelf Member, Braver of Worlds
    Well from my MMO experience even if the same materials are available in high and low tier areas, the high level people still go to the low level areas because it is usually easier and quicker. Think path of least resistance. So, those low level gatherers will still have to complete with high level tier people. I still like the concept that low level materials will still be relevant throughout the tiers of crafting; I just hope it's not in mass quantities.
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  • argentdawnargentdawn Member, Braver of Worlds
    LoBane wrote: »
    The game is still being built and discussing these subjects might help improve the end product. Even if it’s just a small improvement.

    The direct situation posed in the OPs statement has been covered. Corruption will act as the discouragement to prevent killing low level players excessively. As for the other concern with higher level players having an easier time gathering that's a given... That player has invested currency and time into what they are doing. A level 1 and a level 20 should not be on a level playing field.

    The ideology about this scenario is off base as well. Just because a high level craft is using a low level item doesn't immediately make it expensive. Metals and ivory are expensive, coal to forge it is not. It's all about supply and demand. These low level blue flowers should be abundant and fairly inexpensive this causes the lower level players to be able to enter the economy. If the lower level players aren't supplying enough for the local market prices increase, as price and profit increase the higher levels will swoop in and add to the supply which is now higher than demand and a price war starts to unload inventory prices drop the high levels cut back on farming and the whole cycle starts again.

    Making that low level item part of higher level crafting allows people of all levels to participate. If demand is so high that a high level crafter is out gathering mats and a low level starts "stealing" materials that's a risk the low level player takes. I know I wouldn't hesitate to K.O. someone for stepping in on profits when I'm a crafter.


  • LoBaneLoBane Member
    Good call I wasn’t thinking from an economic viewpoint.
  • How about making the common blue flower that spawns in higth level areas give more amounts of materials per gathering, also give it a chance to drop an extra rare material
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  • neuroguyneuroguy Member
    edited June 13
    Did I miss something or is it confirmed that the "level" of the surrounding area contributes to the available gatherable resources? As mentioned already, zones don't really have levels in AoC. Even with high level nodes, there will be a range of content from easy to difficult (or low level to high level) for example as you move away from the road and deep into the forest or up the mountain.

    It makes sense in, for example, skinning for the level of the content to be directly related to the level of the materials gathered. But otherwise, with for example herbs or something, the biome and season will play a bigger role in what is found. Higher "level" areas in zones will be less accessible by players and therefore attract fewer but higher level players. People would rather compete with fewer players than more, so why would you farm in an area that everybody has access to? If a mine did spawn in a "low level" highly accessible area, then yeah maybe you'd have higher level people flood it but again, the lack of fast travel, flying mounts, maps that don't immediately show points of interest as they spawn, should prevent any such "flooding" or would reduce it. The world is big and (I hope) information will be king, people should chase spawns that I thought were independent from the "level" of the surrounding area (I would love a link if it was stated otherwise anywhere). It doesn't make sense to farm the same "low level" region from what I understand.

    Also, don't underestimate how lazy people can be. Just because you can go to a "low level" area to farm something doesn't mean you will. In WoW, low level resources that are simply used to level up professions (aren't even used after a certain tier) are sold at pretty damn high prices because people are too lazy to go get them... in a game with fast travel, flying mounts etc lol.
  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
    I think I'd prefer if materials just didn't have many levels. Crafting shouldn't just progress from low-level to high-level materials, it should progress in complexity. The linear system of Copper<Bronze<Iron<Steel<Mythril<Etc is getting old and boring. I'd rather have 2-3 tiers of materials in total, but with many different materials in each tier (maybe regionally limited). Starting crafters should be able to use any one of those materials. More advanced crafters should have to use multiple materials of different types (maybe from separate regions), but always including some first-tier materials.

    Every crafter, low- and high-level, should use the basics like Copper, Tin, Iron, SIlver, Gold (first-tier). Higher level crafters can start throwing in some second tier materials like Aluminum, Mythril, Adamantite, Cobalt, in addition to the fundamentals from the first tier. And maybe (okay, probably) there could be a third tier of super rare materials (Unobtainium, Magical metals) for legendary/epic crafting.

    As for where these materials can be found, and high-level players going to low-level areas for basic mats, I think y'all have that figured out already. Put basic mats everywhere, but make high-level areas more profitable in general: maybe just because there's less competition in higher-level zones, maybe because there's a better ratio of rare-to-basic mats, and/or maybe the zone has better exp/quests/hunting that you can do while gathering.
  • What people seel while theyre grinding is efficience, so a good way to combat this would be open trade and have higher level areas more profitable.
    For low levels the little money they can gather to get things rolling is important. The higher levels would then sell some of the materials from high areas to buy low area mats.

    I think IS team already has things like this covered as theyre basing a lot on risk v reward.
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