Balancing around 1v1 vs group PvP

consultant

Sorry not going to go through loads of videos just because you question my integrity. Was just trying to answer your question from what I know. Do not see my posts as spinning things. Pretty much take the matter of fact approach. Look for it yourself.

Also was talking ablout pvp game balance in the 3v3 bracket unless Steve is going to have seperate rules for pvp and pvp then that crosses over to pve no way around it.

And if he tries to pve OR class balance in general at the eight man level then no PvP game balance for 3v3 Involves game mechanics like healer designed for 8 man group but playin in 3v3 arenas. I posted Extensively about this subject but now is archived.

Problem could easily be solved by having seperate systems as for as game balance go pve and pvp.

Dygz

Combat balance is no different for PvP than it is for PvE.
And it's balanced rock-paper-scissors even in 1v1 PvP.
I doubt sieges are going to have uses for every utility ability. As in, I don't think there will always be a need for Clerics to use Cleanse as often as there will be in dungeons and raids.

consultant

dygz wrote: »

Combat balance is no different for PvP than it is for PvE.
And it's balanced rock-paper-scissors even in 1v1 PvP.
I doubt sieges are going to have uses for every utility ability. As in, I don't think there will always be a need for Clerics to use Cleanse as often as there will be in dungeons and raids.

Do not see how this could be. Need more of an explaination than rock paper scissors.
Or this class has x strength and has y weakness. Or every class has a counter class.

Need to know things like are hit points dps ratios going to be looked at.

Is the amouont of burst dps going to equalized per class.

Will self heals be balanced to the average dps so hps are is not more than incoming dps. Talking about dpsers not healers.

Will healers be more powerfull than raid bosses in arenas.

How much is better gear going to affect arenas.

Will classes mobility be equalized in pvp in arenas in battlegrounds. For melee class if you cannot catch me you cannot hurt me especially if i go in and out of range.

Will melee ranged abilites like harppoon. have the same range as arrows and spells has to do with kiting.

Will each class be balanced as far as utility spells or abilities. In WoW Warlocks would get picked over other class just cause of utility but applies more to pve.

Are racial traits going to be looked at as far as ladder system pvp is concerned.
Does this mean racials traits could be nerfed for arenas.

Will there be different rules for abilites in pvp and pve when needed.

I really could not imagine every piece of gear in the game suited for arenas so what type of items will not be allowed in arenas.

Actually pretty small list. Some other things include things like pet abilities being on their own seperate gcd or will it cause a gcd for the player also. What type of abilities if any are going to be off the global cool down and is that something you are going to regulate per class has to do with using too many abilities at ounce.

Just go to some of the MMORPGS that are already out there and see the hundreds of pages of posts on pvp game balance. There is lot more than just rock paper and scissors.

Dygz

We are talking about Ashes; not other games.
You are the one talking about some Steven quote no one else is aware of stating Ashes will balance for 3v3.
So, you need to go find that quote so we have a better understanding of what you're talking about.

Ashes is a PvX game. There is no difference between PvP gear and PvE gear.
And the combat is going to be balanced around PvX.
If you need more details, read what's available in the wikis and/or ask the devs to provide more details.

Azathoth

I am still not sure why there is a need for PvP stats/gear separate from PvE stats/gear. If the game comes down to gear scores IS failed. If stats can't be equal in PvE and PvP then IS failed making an Open World PvX.

If a PvP focused player thinks they can't PvP "fairly" because of the gear another player has, they are either out of their league or need more practice. Again, you will likely be able to buy equivalent gear or do PvE activities to find some just like everyone else.

Azryil

A lot of games use PvP specific stats as a way balance damage against other players. This was used heavily in WoW because damage in PvE was pretty insane to the point where if players could do that much damage to other players they could easily global each other.

consultant

Actually Steve also said that PvP will not be balanced at the one vs one bracket. As far as Balancing for pve well that is actually not to difficult. If another class is slightly overpowered or does more dps well just means you kill the boss faster. Unless one class is highy prefered over all the others then PvE game balance will be fine. Do not see to many people complaining about pve game balance for classes unless one class is doing insane dps. Plus this game only has one tank class one healer class so no need to balance those out since there is only one . So as far as PvE DPS classes will need to be balanced which will be fairly easy in my opinion.

You guys can look for the quote yourselves. I already watched that vidoe so....maybe it is time for you to watch it.

Plus if he was talkign about group balance probably not talking about arenas cause group is 8 persons

Dygz

There's a trinity - but, I haven't heard the devs say there is only one tank class and only one healer class.
Specifically, we will have to see if Bard has any healing abilities.

Sarevok

When you say one class, you mean the primary classes: Tank and Cleric?


Luckily, we'll have plenty of variations of a tank and healer to hopefully fulfill multiple scenarios. PvE and PvP alike.

Sarevok

Just hypothetically speaking here, I can see an Argent being the main or off tank while able to provide support for himself and his allies with songs of heroism and battle, a paladin that maybe has access to holy/divine spells for self healing or self support and strong vs undead, a Knight being able to provide better offensive abilities but reliant on a healer, a Spellshield with offensive and defensive magic to support his tanking abilities, a Warden may have some great skills for pulling or aggro ranged targets (I hope they aren't as ridiculous as Stone Arrows from ArcheAge), a Nightshield may have access to shadows or evasion abilities making him difficult to hit, a Keeper may be able to summon his own mini tanks to help soak up the damage and last but not least - The Guardian - the true meatshield. The possibilities are endless at this point until we get to see how augments work.

Damokles

@sarevok i think that Main tanks (like the Argent) will most likely be Tank/? Classes, while offtanks will be properly specced ?/tank classes.
The core gameplay wont change from the augmentation through the secondary class. A bard will still be a bsrd, even though he is tankier then the other augments.

Jahlon

wanderingmist wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

Did they not say group size was "tentatively 8" and balance was around the group vs 1v1?

That's for instanced-based PvE, but I don't know if that will apply to PvP or not.

Yes classes are balanced around group mechanics including the PvP.