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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
A possible problem with access to all weapons.
georgeblack
Member
I currently play Eso because there's nothing better with good graphics at the moment.
Eso is seperated in PvP and PvE instances. For PvP 90% of the fighters uses sword and shield + one more weapon for 1-2 abilities only.
For PvE ever fighter must have a Bow and 90% or the time they have to dual wield as well as a second weapon.
Also 80% of the fighters use the common fighter ultimate ability instead of a class ultimate.
This is because when every class in the game has access to all the abilities that weapons offer the player will pick the option that is more viable.
I hope that AoC will find a way to beat this, and that we will see a variety of different playstyles.
I believe this can be achieved by having class abilities outnumber common abilities, weapon or other skill lines.
Or by having common abilities to work very uniquely so that the class identity is preserved instead of having what we have in Eso for example: PvP sword shield, PvE Bow+ dual wield.
Personally I will play a dual wield Dreadnough or Weapon Master no matter the meta, just like I did in Eso. I am just concerned and want the best for AoC
Eso is seperated in PvP and PvE instances. For PvP 90% of the fighters uses sword and shield + one more weapon for 1-2 abilities only.
For PvE ever fighter must have a Bow and 90% or the time they have to dual wield as well as a second weapon.
Also 80% of the fighters use the common fighter ultimate ability instead of a class ultimate.
This is because when every class in the game has access to all the abilities that weapons offer the player will pick the option that is more viable.
I hope that AoC will find a way to beat this, and that we will see a variety of different playstyles.
I believe this can be achieved by having class abilities outnumber common abilities, weapon or other skill lines.
Or by having common abilities to work very uniquely so that the class identity is preserved instead of having what we have in Eso for example: PvP sword shield, PvE Bow+ dual wield.
Personally I will play a dual wield Dreadnough or Weapon Master no matter the meta, just like I did in Eso. I am just concerned and want the best for AoC
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Comments
Sure a Fighter can wield a staff, but he's not going to wield it the same as a mage.
The secondary class you choose will augment your primary's abilities, and therefore your weapons. A Figher/Cleric may use a staff, but it won't do the exact same skills as say, a Mage/Ranger or even a Cleric/Fighter
Not only that but Intrepid's plan is for the classes to be balanced around a rock-paper-scissors formulae which will also help maintain a relative balance. Of course, this is just the theory and if the devs really screw up it will all go down the drain. But then again, that could happen regardless of how many options you give the players.
By the sound of it, it will be near impossible to have a one-size-fits-most item structure.
Now, if all Rogues end up being best with Daggers, all Tanks with a sword and shield, and all mages with a Spell Tome... I probably won't complain too much.
But, I better be able to create a dagger just as powerful as a glowing book to cast my spells through!
Also, seems like Fighters using a Fighter ultimate would inherently be using their class ultimate. I haven't played ESO, so... I don't get what that could possibly mean.
Lots of people will bypass RP and go with whatever's most efficient... especially if the non-meta options aren't at all viable.
If the game is designed correctly, lots of other players should be choosing to use weapons that fit their class motifs.
In Bless Online, I wouldn't have my Cleric use a Bow unless that was absolutely the only way to overcome challenges because wielding a Hammer makes me feel immersed in my class.
In Ashes, if most Fighters were choosing to use a Bow, I would probably choose to use a Tome specifically because that would make me unique.
I've heard you say this a few times... where does this come from? is this an APOC thing?
i.e. If your class is a Guardian (Tank/Tank) and you are using an one-handed Axe and shield, maybe one of your abilities is something similar to Sunder Armor which applies a debuff to the target's physical armor and generates a certain amount of threat but since it is an axe it also causes the target to bleed for x dmg over y seconds and your axe is enchanted with fire which has a z% to apply a burning DoT as well - VS - say a one-handed sword that hits an additional nearby target applying a slightly weaker armor debuff but helps with multiple target threat management while still applying the burning DoT to both targets it hits.
I recently picked up Divinity Original Sin 2 and I know it's more of a solo RPG but the way some attacks in that game combo out could make for some truly interesting tactics used on the battlefield. This would make for some interesting group dynamics and strategies used when in combat. Group synergy would be a very interesting topic.
I fear you are thinking about this too much like WoW's combat system, which relies heavily on passive effects that you can't control. I personally hope we DON'T see too much of that in Ashes. And no, it's not just because you mentioned Sunder Armor.
Not quiet sure what the benefit of no gear restrictions is or the philosophy behind.
For example hunters usually use bows. Well they could use cross bows short bows spears, axes and throwing axes and maybe other miscillaneous weapons like scythes and darts.. Ranger with a spell book and wand does not make to much sense to me. But if you are going to allow it it should be viable (there should be a reason to do it) if not it is just an option but not a good one.
Rather have classes that have a good choice of weapons that have their proper application per situation. So people will always have a top dps set up but in certain situations then this weapon is better. Other wise well peoplw will only have one choice. That is the top dps choice. While there will be an illusion of having the choice to equip anything they want. Most people will just go with top dps choice and since every one knows what it is for their class. Then people will expect you to have it and tell yout to do it regardless of the fact that you want to role play a priest with hammer. Some other weapon is just better.
So you can have a hammer but people will not play with you if you do have the cookie cutter set.
But lets say you paly a preist with a hammer and that gives yuo some advatage then people will understand why you are running that set up. Other option is to equalize impact of gear. So it really does not matter what you equip purley cosmetic.
Would weapons be only an aesthetic then and leave the skills and their augments solely to the class combination?
Weapons should have meaningful skills instead of a whole skilline.
Meaningful would mean that some weapons should have 4, 3 or even 2 only abilities. Abilities that make a difference.
Not 5 abilities per weapon just for the sake of it.
You're making a LOT of assumptions based on other games.
Think about the mage you mentioned. Depending on how magic is cast, traditionally, mages use a focusing tool - whether that's a bladed weapon or not. Other types use complicated hand gestures, which means they couldn't even wield one while casting a spell. So maybe you still get the "bonuses" of having the weapon equipped, even if you're not swatting things with it?
Same with a shield or armor. Think back to D&D: A mage caster typically needs the freedom of hands and arms to make the complicated gestures to cast spells, unless he had special feats, which rose the spell level or wasted extra spell slots. Of course, he/she could still wear full plate and have a shield, but there was a minimum 25% spell failure rate when casting. Not the smartest thing, but a situation might warrant it.
A ranger having bows sounds pretty straight forward. But what about combat up close? Can't exactly thwap somebody with a bow string for damage, or risk breaking your bow hitting somebody with it. But I imagine certain skills require certain weapons. Can't exactly rain down a volley of arrows without a bow, of course. But it doesn't mean a ranger will be useless without a bow. Remember the traditional Ranger in D&D? They had two paths originally - Duel wielding (typically swords) or Bows. So anything can make sense in that regard.
And it's been stated that there most likely will not be DPS meters in the game. That just means you'll have to pay more attention to who's actually doing the damage in the group. There's also going to be specific class utility that might even have a greater impact than pure damage. It's too early to tell!
This is supposed to be a High Fantasy game. So, "because Magic!" can practically be an answer to nearly every question, too. They're limiting the base game to 8 main classes, with the same for secondary classes (64 combos currently) specifically for balancing purposes. But there's also augments from just about everywhere, giving a crazy amount of customization to the game. So it sounds like all options will be allowable as well as viable. The more specialized, the better - but that doesn't mean you'll be the most useful or the best damage/healing/whatever in all situations.
Imagine you're a purely ice mage. You can do insane damage against people, and shield yourself at the same time! But, when you're out to kill a Frost Dragon who might be immune to Frost damage... well, maybe you should've brought that two handed sword instead?
This has nothing to do with magic swords or magic bows.
Eg, in another game sword and shield had:
Gap closer
Stun
Debuffs
Slow
Low mp cost
Increased defence
Easier damage dealing than two handed or dual wield
This made every fighter from every class, medium or heavy to pick sword/shield. Why? Because they could access it and it was BiS
Advanced weapons can have up to 5 weapon abilities and those weapon abilities can be added and changed by crafters.
But, specific class abilities will be tied to specific weapons - a Tank can't Shield Bash if they're not wielding a shield... they might not be able to use Cover without a shield. A Ranger can't use Fleeting Shot or Sniper's Eye without a Bow.
The Tank won't have Fleeting Shot or Sniper's Eye even if they wield a bow. And a Ranger won't have Shield Bash even if they wield a shield.
Just because it's possible to wield any weapon doesn't mean it will always be optimal to wield a weapon not designed for your primary archetype.
As far as the frost mage using 2 handed sword, There are other two handed weapons. You may think this all fall into staffs, but there double tipped spears, single tipped spears, blunt staffs, and you if you want t to put magic into place. There could be rain bow colored ribbons. Each color representing a different effect. Ribbon is like a whip but made of cloth and energized by magic. Think those are bettter solutions than Two hand sword or Two handed Cross bow
Given the time I could come up with ten different solutions to an alternative to a mage using a 2 handed sword. Same thing with a mage using a shield could come up with ten different things that would do the same thing. Spectral Shield. Fire Shield
wall of force already in game. Spell that puts debuff on target and does less damage which would be just like having a shield. and so on. Entangle ment that causes target to miss 25% of the time or 25% damage reduction.
We'll have to see how effective a Tank is wielding a spellbook.
Very good points.
Class needs to be reflected.
Nobody argues that weapons are tools and so it makes sense for a character to be able and equip them and use them, but I like seeing a guy and think "that's a nice looking DragonKnight or Assassin or Mage or whatever"
Seing a guy in robes with a crossbow or heavy armor and a harry poter stick might be permited but it shouldnt work.
Advanced weapons can be enchanted to have up to 5 weapon abilities, so it's unlikely that two mid-level Dragon Knights would have the exact same weapon abilities on their greatswords and even less likely that they would have the exact same weapon abilities as a Shadowblade's greatsword.
Just get a crafter to add the unique set of weapon abilities you want on your weapon.
What's the question you want to ask Steven regarding no gear restrictions?
I'm looking forward to seeing all the different enchantments you can add to your weapons. I love any system that adds more ways to make your character stand out from others.
Again many games have tried to go this way only to fall victims to meta. I play against the meta but the majority of the player base is deeply disturbed by being forced in to it and it is not a healthy thing for the game.
And it is important to try to prevent a game from making a mistake, even if you are not affected