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Can you help me put the scale of the world into perspective?

EvoWEvoW Member
in General Discussion
So the world is 480 (km2) confirmed plus 100 (km2) for Underrealm, which I am excited for. I am not sure exactly how big this world would feel, though. How long would it take to walk from one side to the other? How many cities and nodes could you fit in it? How much opportunity for diversity in nodes is there? I don't want the world to feel claustrophobic with all the commerce and civilization. I want there to be a vast wilderness that doesn't feel too secluded or instanced. Do you think this all is possible with the world size we have?

Comments

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    well the lack of fast travel the world should feel huge but its hard to scale it as we need to see the world map first
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • StreetCornerPoetStreetCornerPoet Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2019
    The world should feel pretty big. Like Nagash pointed out there isn't a fast travel so no bouncing around everywhere and if you go too far out of your normal stomping grounds you won't have a ton of markers and things to let you know what is around.

    Any vast wilderness that isn't secluded will probably be mowed down in the name of progress as cities grow and communities of towns and villages spring up around them. There will probably be wilderness at the edges, but any wilderness that is in populated ZOIs will be shrinking as things get built/founded.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The plan is to have 103 nodes at launch, so we should get some diversity from that. As for the size, it's hard to really grasp how large 480 km2 is in a game. The game world of "Just Cause 3" is apparently roughly 643km2, if you are looking for a comparison.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • WololoWololo Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2019
    hard to estimate since it depends on alot on things like cell scaling and mount speed but the way i always try to imagine it is that the;
    Skyrim map without expansions is just under 40 km2 (google says 37,1 but will take 40 in this calculation since that takes rough edges off later in the grid calculation and there will also be starting zones in AoC).
    580 km2 / 40 = 14,5 times bigger then skyrim. 103 nodes / 14,5 = 7 nodes on a map the size of Skyrim.
    so imagine a 2x3-grid with 6 squares (realisticly between 6 and 7) on the map of Skyrim and every square covers a node zone. if you place a city like Whiterun in the middle, it leaves ALOT of space for roaming around and freeholds. thats prity big right ?
    the reason i love to compare with that game is because i imagine the run speed and diverse terrain to be similar to ashes.
    despite this big scale i doubt it would take hours, or even one hour to go from one side to the other side of the map. never seen that in any game.
    hopefully climbing a mountain with a horse will not be possible though XD
  • MorashtakMorashtak Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    • 480sq km converts to 185.33sq miles. This is approximately 13.5 miles a side on a square map.
    • A human has a "brisk" walking speed of about 3mph. A "jog" is between 4-6mph. (disclaimer - Video game player speed may be much faster than RL speed.)
    • Using these numbers it would take a human 2.5 to 4.5 hours to traverse a straight line up/down or across such a map.
    • For mounts we'll use horse speed which is 4mph for a walk, 8-12mph for a trot, and a cantor of 12-15mph.
    • So while mounted we can expect to travel the same straight line in approximately 1.25 to 2.5 hours.
    • Taking terrain and random encounters into account one could add at least half again to twice the time. Or IS may code in a faster walk/jog speed than a RL creature.
    • Caravans may travel much closer to a walk speed while ships may be closer to their RL speeds of 6-10mph in fair weather and favoring wind (sustained speed and cargo size favor ships over caravans).

    For perspective;
    uBWCz.jpg
    owuEH4S.png
  • rhunerhune Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well also take in consideration that you could sail too.. so that expand the amount of map you could travel through
  • WololoWololo Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @morashtak nice comparison. but thats the thing; overall people mounts ships etc move faster in games then irl. which makes sence else it feels to slow :D cell size is more universal in same engines. everybody is used to it. even old games like DOOM it feld like the guy could walk half across the level in seconds xD or the newer Monster Hunter World walking trough the forest feels so slow sometimes.. but then if you realisticly look how fast tree's and objects are passing by when running, it is still faster then irl. its what adds alot to the 'feel' of the game. so far alpha 0 seemed rly slow movement, like guildwars-kind-of-slow. but then APOC seems really quick.
  • ShoklenShoklen Member, Alpha Two
    With all that was wrong with the game aside, I always liked the "scale" and "walking speed" on the planets in No Man's Sky. Planets felt huge, which they should.

    I was glad to hear the team is going to test (prob. internally only) an actual "spherical" map without sides; meaning if you walk long enough (and boat), you'll end up back where you started.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well, lets compare shall we? Witcher 3 is around 136 km2, think that times three and you have around 400+ km2 of Verra. Then there are things like mountains and oceans too, which would require you to find either a harbour or a safe mountain pass to cross leading to longer travel time.
  • EvoWEvoW Member
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    The game world of "Just Cause 3" is apparently roughly 643km2, if you are looking for a comparison.

    Thanks, that helps. I am actually quite familiar with Just Cause 3.
  • EvoWEvoW Member
    morashtak wrote: »
    • 480sq km converts to 185.33sq miles. This is approximately 13.5 miles a side on a square map.
    • A human has a "brisk" walking speed of about 3mph. A "jog" is between 4-6mph. (disclaimer - Video game player speed may be much faster than RL speed.)
    • Using these numbers it would take a human 2.5 to 4.5 hours to traverse a straight line up/down or across such a map.
    • For mounts we'll use horse speed which is 4mph for a walk, 8-12mph for a trot, and a cantor of 12-15mph.
    • So while mounted we can expect to travel the same straight line in approximately 1.25 to 2.5 hours.
    • Taking terrain and random encounters into account one could add at least half again to twice the time. Or IS may code in a faster walk/jog speed than a RL creature.
    • Caravans may travel much closer to a walk speed while ships may be closer to their RL speeds of 6-10mph in fair weather and favoring wind (sustained speed and cargo size favor ships over caravans).

    For perspective;
    uBWCz.jpg

    I appreciate the analysis and visual, helped me get a good understanding of things. Traveling and exploration is one of the most important parts for me with MMORPG's after all.
  • T ElfT Elf Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Here's a nice area comparison map video that might help:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY3hYeqWfsM
    eZC6mjP.gif
    Formerly T-Elf

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    elf wrote: »
    Here's a nice area comparison map video that might help:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY3hYeqWfsM

    geez some of these a huge
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    How much of these are "Playable" area vs just over all map size edge to edge?
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • georgeblackgeorgeblack Member
    I just hope mounts are not a speedbuff thing that enables you to traverse EASILY through all danger
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    georgeblack wrote: »
    I just hope mounts are not a speedbuff thing that enables you to traverse EASILY through all danger

    If it's a road i don't see why not but in the wilds or wastelands i agree. Environment should play a big part.
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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