Does it count as management if I list a bunch of issues with mechanics common in MMOs that lead to toxicity? I have a lot. Don't have to manage it as much if you don't have the issues that cause it.
Other than that, things like being notified of people banned when you report them, reasoning for changes being made to mechanics or skills being given, not allowing name changes, and banning DPS meters help a lot.
a policy or attitude of letting things take their own course, without interfering.
I think there should be a clear set of rules for everyone to play by without room for biased interpretations. There should be features to mute which handles spammers and overall rude people.
I think a fair amount of toxicity is good for a community, because a game driven by story telling between players, needs bad guys to motivate others and to act as foil characters for the good guys.
Hello everyone.
Undoubtedly toxicity is a problem that exists in almost all games where interaction between players is allowed, and it is a very important issue since this has a direct impact on the abandonment of the game, especially of new players, which for being low level, and not being able to enter to strong guilds, or because they are casual players, they cannot be compared with veteran players, who are often intolerant with them, insulting and limiting newbie players in different ways. Reducing in part the constant growth of the community.
The purpose of Intrepid Studios as a business must be to attract (not lose) as many players as possible, providing quality entertainment and systems that allow the balance and coexistence of as many types of players as possible. For this reason, I consider that banning players for being toxic is not a solution either, since, for the company, it becomes the same: loss of players.
That is why it becomes necessary to implement systems that allow a decrease, redirection, and incentivity of a better behavior, thus maintaining a balance between all parties, and reducing the effort of the Intrepid Studios team in the solution of conflicts. Fortunately, Ashes of Creation is a game that seeks to be directed by the community, allowing the players themselves to create the world, this makes certain levels of toxicity necessary, to give more excitement, dynamism and realism to the game, providing great possibilities for systems like the node war , castles sieges, corruption, caravans, among others.
Systems to avoid contact:
Blacklist, Mute X Time
Decrease systems:
PK: The corruption system and bounty system already exists, and this can be effective for both to protect veteran people and beginners, providing entertainment and realism to the game.
Insults in Chat or VoIP: I suggest a system managed by the government of the node, where you as an affected person can place a report to an npc, the npc will give you to choose options such as Reason? Insults, etc., etc. Where did it happen? Battleground, Dungeon, Raid, etc. Name of the player? And a copy of the chat log will be attached.
This will allow the government of your node, to have an archive of all the reported players in this node, and being able to sort by type of node, node, reason, and name of the player.
This will make the rulers can take care of the peace of its inhabitants, and build the policy within the node and with other nodes. After a certain number of reports to the same player, the government may place infringements for a certain time such as more expensive taxes, etc. Or even allowing the governor, if many of the players are repeat offenders and from the same guild, place infractions on the entire guild. Or ask other nodes to make the same infraction to a certain guild or player when they are within that node. The other nodes may also reject these requests, generate mutual support agreements, or wars.
It would be a way in which even the most newbie players and veterans could be protected by their own government, although that will depend on how each government works. There will be governments that will want to help more, others that don't. Everything will be the choice of the same players.
Redirection Systems:
Castle Sieges
Guild wars
Node Sieges
Node War
If the people want to fight, lets them fight in the correct place.
Incentive systems:
These systems can be like the mentoring system, among others. This way veterans will be able to receive rewards from their apprentices, and teach them to learn the mechanics of dungeons or raids. Or even help on other issues. This is a system that must be taken care of to avoid taking advantage of it without helping anyone, but at the same time allowing beginners to be trained, which will be very useful for beginners, and will give them a better gaming experience.
We need effective incentive systems, to reduce the amount of toxic people, and at the same time, that beginners and novices in certain content will have the possibility to learn.
Reporting System:
This would be a system to report players, the cases would be investigated by Intrepid Studios, but this will only be for extreme cases of harassment, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, and sexual harassment, among others.
Really thx for reading me, and continue doing a great job like always.
1
TeknoMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2019
An in-game "name and shame" system wouldn't be inappropriate either!
Maybe a temporary forced title (ie. "Loot Pirate", "Group Quitter", or even community driven ones) or an in-game "list" that can be accessed combined with the suggest "Karma" system above
It's ok to use auto-ban systems for temporary bans, chat mutes etc. But if you are you going to do things like permanent bans or long term bans. Have a real person check the situation before issuing the ban.
Also, make sure you are clear with your rules and give examples of what is acceptable and what is not. It's quite frustrating when you don't know what is an offense and what is not.
I agree that heavy punishments should be dealt out by a person rather than a computer, but it's almost impossible to have clear cut rules that cover every situation. The difference between banter and harassment depends entirely on the people involved. Not only this but the words a group of people consider socially acceptable constantly change over time.
Not necessary, if you are having computer bans. You should be able to have clear rules that cover every situation otherwise how is the automatic system banning? As for human bans, of course, it's no longer possible since toxicity is a bit abstract.
✦Hmmm I think swearing and adult content should be allowed as the game is a subscription base but obviously have that under a Mature Filter in which players can toggle on and off if they prefer not to see that. Also, other things such as abuse should be able to be solved with a block button. If for whatever reason things continue then someone should be able to report to a GM. Shit talking when playing against others should be somewhat allowed ... I feel that's just vanilla and to be expected these days. Anything like sharing people's real-life information should be protected. BUT please don't block being able to share each other's Discords and streams, that's how most of us guilds and players communicate! ✦
0
Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It's ok to use auto-ban systems for temporary bans, chat mutes etc. But if you are you going to do things like permanent bans or long term bans. Have a real person check the situation before issuing the ban.
Also, make sure you are clear with your rules and give examples of what is acceptable and what is not. It's quite frustrating when you don't know what is an offense and what is not.
I agree that heavy punishments should be dealt out by a person rather than a computer, but it's almost impossible to have clear cut rules that cover every situation. The difference between banter and harassment depends entirely on the people involved. Not only this but the words a group of people consider socially acceptable constantly change over time.
Not necessary, if you are having computer bans. You should be able to have clear rules that cover every situation otherwise how is the automatic system banning? As for human bans, of course, it's no longer possible since toxicity is a bit abstract.
League of Legends has a computer system that automatically hands out bans and it is USELESS. Why? Because context is important. Simply put, the system has a list of words and phrases that it considers to be toxic, and when a player report is submitted (regardless of the reason for the report), it scans the chat and hands out punishments based on that list.
One of those bannable phrases is "kill yourself", which is often used as an insult. I saw a player get banned for saying that phrase when all he meant was "kill your character to the turret to deny the enemy gold" (this is a valid tactic in the game). Nothing offensive, not directed at anybody, but he still got punished for it.
Similarly, I got a 2 week suspension because I went afk in a match. You might think just from that statement that I deserved it, until you understand the context. In that particular match (5v5 match by the way), we got smashed early on, and 2 of my teammates quit out, so now it's 3v5. One of my other teammates had been intentionally dying throughout the match, which is why the 2 other teammates quit. So it's now effectively 2v5. I call for surrender votes, they get denied. On top of that, the enemy team are purposefully hanging back to drag the match out as long as possible. That is the point where I went afk.
The computer system doesn't care for context, and hands out bans regardless.
Intrepid Studios, if you are reading this, then please DO NOT USE A COMPUTER TO HAND OUT PUNISHMENTS!
Sorry for ranting but my god reading this thread and seeing some of the suggestions really make me wonder if people turn their brains on before they start typing rubbish.
3
Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
An in-game "name and shame" system wouldn't be inappropriate either!
Maybe a temporary forced title (ie. "Loot Pirate", "Group Quitter", or even community driven ones) or an in-game "list" that can be accessed combined with the suggest "Karma" system above
Tek
Another terrible idea. Context is important, and there isn't a single computer system I've seen in a game that can distinguish context. Take your "group quitter" title for example. If I get into a PUG of complete assholes who do nothing but insult me or purposefully annoy me, I'm probably going to quit the group. But now because I've quit the group I get the "group quitter" title even though I had a perfectly valid reason for leaving. The next group of people I meet will see this title and unfairly judge me based on that title.
2
Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It is my right to be a villain as much as yours to play the game in the way you want to.
Life is toght, full of rules and you can die 4real at any moment, so if you tell me i can't be a villain, toxic, piece of garbage, to blow out some steam from my day-by-day, you are straight telling-me, i have no right to do what i want to, but you have all the right to do what you want and tell me how i should play, is that fair? Is it fairness still valued? I've read pretty much everything that was posted here and now i am wondering, have most of you guys ever played a true MMORPG? Where freedom is given to players? Some of you even have the audacity to tell what should or not be done by the Studio creating the game what they Should or not do with evil players instead of looking for ways to " even the odds and make the game enjoyable even with this kind of people and bahavior " , i am sorry for point out the truth, but Humans by the most part will always choose to do Bad Things if they have the option, it is what they are, no more no less. Games used to be a place where you could still be Human and drop the fake act you put to your boss, kids, wife, girlfriend/boyfriend, society itself. I don't know why you guys still try to play MMORPG's, put up constructive comments that will at least try to even the odds, not erase a entire player base. From your point of view, it is " just toxic people ", for us is a way out of madness in real life, imagine a topic about ( i am really sorry cuz this maybe is gonna sound really misogynic but it's just a example ), create a topic in the forum about Woman in the game comunity and how should be treated in this game , it starts simple and righteous, then escalates to say as much as a girl looks are ugly you just get tagged server wide for your opinion, or you just got rejected from the girl you fell for and project your problems in every female character in game by killing and speaking mean words gets me Ban penalty? shesh, it is really dificult to lose the only place left for freedom of speech where you don't get really stabbed to death or shot, i'll miss you games online.
Err....no. From what I've seen, most of the posts in this thread so far have made it clear that we don't want Intrepid to interfere too much when it comes to "toxic" behaviour, and instead to let the community handle it. If you want to be the "villain" and a complete asshole to everyone, you are well within your right to do that.....
...Just don't expect anyone to want to group with you, help you or interact with you in any way.
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azurlMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2019
Would be nice if we could blacklist individuals at our shops, prevent people we block to buy from us. freezing them out of the market for their behavior. like refusing service to anyone we choose.
3
Idhalar AlBaieshMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
-Just allow us to block people so we don't have to read idiots and spammers, enforce naming policies and a minimum of good behavior on the chat (no spam, no major offenses, no illegal content). The corruption and bounty hunting systems look punishing enough.
-A "good karma" system could be very cool. Let us somehow "bless" good players or people that helped us, give them some kind of reward, we don't even need to know what it exactly does or how many blessings we have achieved. limit it so it can not be exploited and make it anonymous and invisible, just let it know it's there. "The gods are watching, be nice and you will be rewarded"
Only in silence the word, Only in dark the light, Only in dying life.
It is my right to be a villain as much as yours to play the game in the way you want to.
Life is toght, full of rules and you can die 4real at any moment, so if you tell me i can't be a villain, toxic, piece of garbage, to blow out some steam from my day-by-day, you are straight telling-me, i have no right to do what i want to, but you have all the right to do what you want and tell me how i should play, is that fair? Is it fairness still valued? I've read pretty much everything that was posted here and now i am wondering, have most of you guys ever played a true MMORPG? Where freedom is given to players? Some of you even have the audacity to tell what should or not be done by the Studio creating the game what they Should or not do with evil players instead of looking for ways to " even the odds and make the game enjoyable even with this kind of people and bahavior " , i am sorry for point out the truth, but Humans by the most part will always choose to do Bad Things if they have the option, it is what they are, no more no less. Games used to be a place where you could still be Human and drop the fake act you put to your boss, kids, wife, girlfriend/boyfriend, society itself. I don't know why you guys still try to play MMORPG's, put up constructive comments that will at least try to even the odds, not erase a entire player base. From your point of view, it is " just toxic people ", for us is a way out of madness in real life, imagine a topic about ( i am really sorry cuz this maybe is gonna sound really misogynic but it's just a example ), create a topic in the forum about Woman in the game comunity and how should be treated in this game , it starts simple and righteous, then escalates to say as much as a girl looks are ugly you just get tagged server wide for your opinion, or you just got rejected from the girl you fell for and project your problems in every female character in game by killing and speaking mean words gets me Ban penalty? shesh, it is really dificult to lose the only place left for freedom of speech where you don't get really stabbed to death or shot, i'll miss you games online.
Err....no. From what I've seen, most of the posts in this thread so far have made it clear that we don't want Intrepid to interfere too much when it comes to "toxic" behaviour, and instead to let the community handle it. If you want to be the "villain" and a complete asshole to everyone, you are well within your right to do that.....
...Just don't expect anyone to want to group with you, help you or interact with you in any way.
Help? Interaction? I get it that for some people, games online is a place to make friends, hold hands and sing kumbaya, but for most people that are over competitive and don't give 2 poops about how evil someone is as long as they can use eachother to achieve theyr on desires. Be it dungeon, raid, or any kind of content, make no mistake thay will...
-Just allow us to block people so we don't have to read idiots and spammers, enforce naming policies and a minimum of good behavior on the chat (no spam, no major offenses, no illegal content). The corruption and bounty hunting systems look punishing enough.
-A "good karma" system could be very cool. Let us somehow "bless" good players or people that helped us, give them some kind of reward, we don't even need to know what it exactly does or how many blessings we have achieved. limit it so it can not be exploited and make it anonymous and invisible, just let it know it's there. "The gods are watching, be nice and you will be rewarded"
Sorry to tell you, but in basically every game with trade system you can do that its called : " here, take some money for helping-me friend, can i add you in case i need this kind of help again? "-system...
If and i mean IF there is to be rewards for good players handling evil players, it should have the opposite too, just imagine gain titles like: Killer of Thousands, Bringer of Darkness, Apostle of the Evil Gods, makes my blood boil...
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It is my right to be a villain as much as yours to play the game in the way you want to.
Life is toght, full of rules and you can die 4real at any moment, so if you tell me i can't be a villain, toxic, piece of garbage, to blow out some steam from my day-by-day, you are straight telling-me, i have no right to do what i want to, but you have all the right to do what you want and tell me how i should play, is that fair? Is it fairness still valued? I've read pretty much everything that was posted here and now i am wondering, have most of you guys ever played a true MMORPG? Where freedom is given to players? Some of you even have the audacity to tell what should or not be done by the Studio creating the game what they Should or not do with evil players instead of looking for ways to " even the odds and make the game enjoyable even with this kind of people and bahavior " , i am sorry for point out the truth, but Humans by the most part will always choose to do Bad Things if they have the option, it is what they are, no more no less. Games used to be a place where you could still be Human and drop the fake act you put to your boss, kids, wife, girlfriend/boyfriend, society itself. I don't know why you guys still try to play MMORPG's, put up constructive comments that will at least try to even the odds, not erase a entire player base. From your point of view, it is " just toxic people ", for us is a way out of madness in real life, imagine a topic about ( i am really sorry cuz this maybe is gonna sound really misogynic but it's just a example ), create a topic in the forum about Woman in the game comunity and how should be treated in this game , it starts simple and righteous, then escalates to say as much as a girl looks are ugly you just get tagged server wide for your opinion, or you just got rejected from the girl you fell for and project your problems in every female character in game by killing and speaking mean words gets me Ban penalty? shesh, it is really dificult to lose the only place left for freedom of speech where you don't get really stabbed to death or shot, i'll miss you games online.
Err....no. From what I've seen, most of the posts in this thread so far have made it clear that we don't want Intrepid to interfere too much when it comes to "toxic" behaviour, and instead to let the community handle it. If you want to be the "villain" and a complete asshole to everyone, you are well within your right to do that.....
...Just don't expect anyone to want to group with you, help you or interact with you in any way.
Help? Interaction? I get it that for some people, games online is a place to make friends, hold hands and sing kumbaya, but for most people that are over competitive and don't give 2 poops about how evil someone is as long as they can use eachother to achieve theyr on desires. Be it dungeon, raid, or any kind of content, make no mistake thay will...
I can only speak for myself of course but if you piss me off too much I don't care how good you are at the game I won't play with you.
Piss off enough people and you'll find yourself on people's "kill on sight" lists. Games like this are very unfriendly places for assholes.
Not that it really matters to me. You can do as you wish and face the consequences.
Toxicity is too broad of a topic, and can't be discussed without metrics of how much freedom players will really have, will be toxic with your party the same as being toxic with the enemys party? i mean, they are enemies, you won't throw flowers at them anyway? From my point of view anything that doesnt goes outside of the game and gets in your personal life, like put your social midias in the fray its valid.
I think there should be a report systhem for toxisity that would be consideret illigal by IRL standarts, otherwise the Dev's should give the Players platforms and tools inside of the Game to regulate toxisity themselve.
for example: the Mayer would be able to make some Kind of Blacklist for people with bad behaivior so they would have to pay mor for stuff from NPC's. This would be self regulating since a Mayer who wouldn't take his job siriosly would get replaced rather quickly.
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Toxicity is too broad of a topic, and can't be discussed without metrics of how much freedom players will really have, will be toxic with your party the same as being toxic with the enemys party? i mean, they are enemies, you won't throw flowers at them anyway? From my point of view anything that doesnt goes outside of the game and gets in your personal life, like put your social midias in the fray its valid.
You bring up a good point and it is definitely something to consider.
In my experience runescape has the least toxicity out of the games Ive played.
I think a major factor in the game is that noone is hindered too hard for walking their own track.
Those who dont succeed in dungeons may be good at skilling or merching.
Theres some light toxicity in PvP worlds and in competitive scenarios but theyre optional and u can roleplay deft if u wish to and turn public off.
"You're seeking for perfection, but your disillusions are leading to destruction.
You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
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unknownsystemerrorMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
You want to gauge the toxicity present currently? Turn on written chat and VOIP for the BR testing. That should make your eyes bleed and your ear hair singe.
1
NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
You want to gauge the toxicity present currently? Turn on written chat and VOIP for the BR testing. That should make your eyes bleed and your ear hair singe.
It would be like staring at the sun. It would likely hurt you, but it's fun looking at it.
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
We need a closely knit server community.
I remember, when a player in WoW still had a certain reputation.
Everyon knew the big tanks and healers on the server, or the best blacksmith etc.
All that went away with the growing number of servers, rename-tokens and server transfers sadly....
If someone is toxic, then I want everyone on the server be able to learn it in the forums/discord etc.
It would be really cool if we had per server a thread, where people could post events that happened on the server.
Example:
We have General Discussion, Announcements, NA Guilds, EUW Guilds etc, now we would need a "Server" place to create threads.
A way to track all the names that a person has used and on which servers perhaps. Kind of like how Steam will tell you all the names a person has used. It could be important to track things. I wonder if this could be tracked on ones forum profile somehow.
In regard to the server threads, I feel like a post should be given approval before showing on the thread, maybe?
I'd suggest to find a way to give rewards for being opposite to toxic, like for being nice, helpful etc. Overwatch has quite nice approach, after each match you're able to give a 'badge' to three players of the match. Perhaps something in this direction?
Forbidding people doing things quite often doesn't work well, but growing community that is encouraged to be kind will benefit even outside of AOC
@kethatril Division 2 implemented a reward system for helping out players who "call for backup". This should definitely be something Intrepid looks into for AoC.
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EvilKitiMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would like to have in game GM's that you could report stuff to so a live person could look at it and determine people could also use this function if they found bots or someone hacking in game so a live GM could come and take disciplinary action as seen fit. i would also draw a line from being toxic to just shit talking and make it clear for everyone to understand.
You want to gauge the toxicity present currently? Turn on written chat and VOIP for the BR testing. That should make your eyes bleed and your ear hair singe.
Damn it, i can't even argue with that cuz its so true, i'm BR, and most of our time on the internet is simply creating ways to mock pretty much everything under and above the sun, there's no topic we can't make people feel unconfortable about and we are proud about it. But no other nation on the internet can deny that we are the spice that brings the flavour to all games online, people love to hate us just as much as we love to be hated by the rest of the world.
Overall, I just need the ability to block people that are spamming and I'm good.
The idea of having commendations (and some kind of reward that goes with it) could be really cool. I like giving kudos to people that deserve it. I'm just not sure where this would enter into play for Ashes. I see that kind of stuff mostly in instanced dungeons / PvP... which seems like something that won't be so big here.
FFXIV had a mentor system that to get into you had to actually have some achievements under your belt and they had mentor icons for PvE, PvP, and crafting separately. But again, that mostly gave rewards for people doing instanced things with new players...
The only thing I worry about (a little) is what happened in BDO for a while where one guild took over everything on the server, and they had absorbed enough top tier guilds that no one could actually do anything about it (people tried)... not sure there was anything the GMs could do since it was all within the rules of the game... but at the same time it killed the game for a lot of people I knew. They left because changing servers meant starting over... which in that super grind-heavy game meant you would never be able to reach the top. I'm not as worried because it seems like this game will actually be more skill-based, not gear grind RNG based where having just 1-2 levels on someone meant they win no matter how good you are.
Doing nothing and letting the community sort it out is not realistic, because people don't behave that way. However, I just sat here thinking about stuff and I can circumvent almost anything you can think up. So can everyone else.
I think the corruption system along with a mute button will take care of most things but I also think the corruption system won't work and Steven will have to get rid of it eventually. I don't think corruption will make it into the final game and if it does it won't last very long.
So to answer your question, I think toxicity is an unsolvable problem but you should still try because someday it might lead to a solution.
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LemonyMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I feel that there needs to be a certain threshold where action needs to be taken. IRL threats, DDoS and DoS threats, and that level should be punishable. Bad mouthing, trash talk, and the like are tools to help players realize mistakes, even if it is harsh. If a player dislikes that, a mute function is there for those purposes, and maybe an implementation of a cooldown mute can be had, where players can select the amount of time to have someone muted in game or a preset. I know that in some games I wish players wouldn't be permanently muted, but sometimes I could forget. However I do believe that people should be able to mute others permanently and an infinite amount of them -- with no restrictions or limits. For particularly good behavior, sportsmanship, and the like, I feel that there should be potential for a certain reward. Whether that be cosmetic, title, a small symbol, etc. It would show respectable members of the ashes community who are helpful in nature with recommendations and advice.
Toxicity leads to great game experiences, believe it or not. Either creating rivalry between guilds that leads to epic battles (One of my favorite MMO moments in archeage was a 5 v 20 where we aoe wiped players coming through a portal during a dom against a toxic rival guild) or constantly being on the lookout for gankers, giving a sense of danger and adding unintentional ambience to a the world that you can't re-create through monsters and NPCs alone. With chat toxicity the general consensus is only pay attention to IRL threats and doxxing, other than that players should have full freedom of speech, except for racial slurs which is a baseline problem to monitor. Overall, toxicity can be a good thing that adds a sense of danger to the world and also leading to great experiences. So don't seek to strangle it, just limit the toxicity that might bleed into IRL etc
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janusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2019
Apart from actual criminal intentions, annonymity and power-imbalance (no fear of repercussions) are usually the root for most toxicity.
Solutions from other games: -Blocking functions for chat (to deal with harmless but annoying meme-ing) and several chat channels help a lot (e.g. in BDO most people only read their guild chat in order to avoid the toxicity in server chat).
-Unchangeable user-ID's and community-wide communication to create reputational effects (guilds/societies etc could play an important part here - IF alliances and cooperation is important).
-Karma (system penalty for excessive serial-killing/willful destruction etc) or Bounty (system- or maybe even player-initated rewards for headhunting) would be helpful for more severe cases and toxic actions. These should probably get deactivated for the "lawless wilderness" though (after all, a bit of PvP risk makes some adventuring a lot more fun).
Unfortunately, a reporting function for severe cases, checked and decided by humans (GMs) is pretty much unavoidable (there might even be a legal requirement in some countries for this). By the way, BDO handles the "reporting" relatively user-unfriendly by requiring the user to install some screencapture program themselves to make a video (Screenshot usually not sufficient) as proof of toxicity that then has to be uploaded within a support ticket. While user-unfriendly, it creates also a threshold that really only serious stuff is getting reported.
In the end it will also require a fine balance, what is permissable and what is punishable. (roleplaying anyone?^^) Just keep in mind that not everybody in the game will be a hardcore PvP player age 18+ from the USA and that AoC needs to stay attractive for a broad audience.
Pooka thinks that things like Racism, hacking, or exploiting should be policed, but other than that, there is such thing as ignore/block. If they're camping you, there's plenty of people that will be salivating at the chance to kill corrupted players and gain that possible loot drop. Plus with the the social aspect of MMOs coming back in this game, having an entire community that dislikes you/your guild, you won't be getting much done.
Comments
Other than that, things like being notified of people banned when you report them, reasoning for changes being made to mechanics or skills being given, not allowing name changes, and banning DPS meters help a lot.
/ˌlesāˈfer/
noun
noun: laissez-faire
a policy or attitude of letting things take their own course, without interfering.
I think there should be a clear set of rules for everyone to play by without room for biased interpretations. There should be features to mute which handles spammers and overall rude people.
I think a fair amount of toxicity is good for a community, because a game driven by story telling between players, needs bad guys to motivate others and to act as foil characters for the good guys.
Undoubtedly toxicity is a problem that exists in almost all games where interaction between players is allowed, and it is a very important issue since this has a direct impact on the abandonment of the game, especially of new players, which for being low level, and not being able to enter to strong guilds, or because they are casual players, they cannot be compared with veteran players, who are often intolerant with them, insulting and limiting newbie players in different ways. Reducing in part the constant growth of the community.
The purpose of Intrepid Studios as a business must be to attract (not lose) as many players as possible, providing quality entertainment and systems that allow the balance and coexistence of as many types of players as possible. For this reason, I consider that banning players for being toxic is not a solution either, since, for the company, it becomes the same: loss of players.
That is why it becomes necessary to implement systems that allow a decrease, redirection, and incentivity of a better behavior, thus maintaining a balance between all parties, and reducing the effort of the Intrepid Studios team in the solution of conflicts. Fortunately, Ashes of Creation is a game that seeks to be directed by the community, allowing the players themselves to create the world, this makes certain levels of toxicity necessary, to give more excitement, dynamism and realism to the game, providing great possibilities for systems like the node war , castles sieges, corruption, caravans, among others.
Systems to avoid contact:
Blacklist, Mute X Time
Decrease systems:
PK: The corruption system and bounty system already exists, and this can be effective for both to protect veteran people and beginners, providing entertainment and realism to the game.
Insults in Chat or VoIP: I suggest a system managed by the government of the node, where you as an affected person can place a report to an npc, the npc will give you to choose options such as Reason? Insults, etc., etc. Where did it happen? Battleground, Dungeon, Raid, etc. Name of the player? And a copy of the chat log will be attached.
This will allow the government of your node, to have an archive of all the reported players in this node, and being able to sort by type of node, node, reason, and name of the player.
This will make the rulers can take care of the peace of its inhabitants, and build the policy within the node and with other nodes. After a certain number of reports to the same player, the government may place infringements for a certain time such as more expensive taxes, etc. Or even allowing the governor, if many of the players are repeat offenders and from the same guild, place infractions on the entire guild. Or ask other nodes to make the same infraction to a certain guild or player when they are within that node. The other nodes may also reject these requests, generate mutual support agreements, or wars.
It would be a way in which even the most newbie players and veterans could be protected by their own government, although that will depend on how each government works. There will be governments that will want to help more, others that don't. Everything will be the choice of the same players.
Redirection Systems:
Castle Sieges
Guild wars
Node Sieges
Node War
If the people want to fight, lets them fight in the correct place.
Incentive systems:
These systems can be like the mentoring system, among others. This way veterans will be able to receive rewards from their apprentices, and teach them to learn the mechanics of dungeons or raids. Or even help on other issues. This is a system that must be taken care of to avoid taking advantage of it without helping anyone, but at the same time allowing beginners to be trained, which will be very useful for beginners, and will give them a better gaming experience.
We need effective incentive systems, to reduce the amount of toxic people, and at the same time, that beginners and novices in certain content will have the possibility to learn.
Reporting System:
This would be a system to report players, the cases would be investigated by Intrepid Studios, but this will only be for extreme cases of harassment, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, and sexual harassment, among others.
Really thx for reading me, and continue doing a great job like always.
Maybe a temporary forced title (ie. "Loot Pirate", "Group Quitter", or even community driven ones) or an in-game "list" that can be accessed combined with the suggest "Karma" system above
Tek
Not necessary, if you are having computer bans. You should be able to have clear rules that cover every situation otherwise how is the automatic system banning? As for human bans, of course, it's no longer possible since toxicity is a bit abstract.
League of Legends has a computer system that automatically hands out bans and it is USELESS. Why? Because context is important. Simply put, the system has a list of words and phrases that it considers to be toxic, and when a player report is submitted (regardless of the reason for the report), it scans the chat and hands out punishments based on that list.
One of those bannable phrases is "kill yourself", which is often used as an insult. I saw a player get banned for saying that phrase when all he meant was "kill your character to the turret to deny the enemy gold" (this is a valid tactic in the game). Nothing offensive, not directed at anybody, but he still got punished for it.
Similarly, I got a 2 week suspension because I went afk in a match. You might think just from that statement that I deserved it, until you understand the context. In that particular match (5v5 match by the way), we got smashed early on, and 2 of my teammates quit out, so now it's 3v5. One of my other teammates had been intentionally dying throughout the match, which is why the 2 other teammates quit. So it's now effectively 2v5. I call for surrender votes, they get denied. On top of that, the enemy team are purposefully hanging back to drag the match out as long as possible. That is the point where I went afk.
The computer system doesn't care for context, and hands out bans regardless.
Intrepid Studios, if you are reading this, then please DO NOT USE A COMPUTER TO HAND OUT PUNISHMENTS!
Sorry for ranting but my god reading this thread and seeing some of the suggestions really make me wonder if people turn their brains on before they start typing rubbish.
Another terrible idea. Context is important, and there isn't a single computer system I've seen in a game that can distinguish context. Take your "group quitter" title for example. If I get into a PUG of complete assholes who do nothing but insult me or purposefully annoy me, I'm probably going to quit the group. But now because I've quit the group I get the "group quitter" title even though I had a perfectly valid reason for leaving. The next group of people I meet will see this title and unfairly judge me based on that title.
Err....no. From what I've seen, most of the posts in this thread so far have made it clear that we don't want Intrepid to interfere too much when it comes to "toxic" behaviour, and instead to let the community handle it. If you want to be the "villain" and a complete asshole to everyone, you are well within your right to do that.....
...Just don't expect anyone to want to group with you, help you or interact with you in any way.
-A "good karma" system could be very cool. Let us somehow "bless" good players or people that helped us, give them some kind of reward, we don't even need to know what it exactly does or how many blessings we have achieved. limit it so it can not be exploited and make it anonymous and invisible, just let it know it's there. "The gods are watching, be nice and you will be rewarded"
Help? Interaction? I get it that for some people, games online is a place to make friends, hold hands and sing kumbaya, but for most people that are over competitive and don't give 2 poops about how evil someone is as long as they can use eachother to achieve theyr on desires. Be it dungeon, raid, or any kind of content, make no mistake thay will...
Sorry to tell you, but in basically every game with trade system you can do that its called : " here, take some money for helping-me friend, can i add you in case i need this kind of help again? "-system...
If and i mean IF there is to be rewards for good players handling evil players, it should have the opposite too, just imagine gain titles like: Killer of Thousands, Bringer of Darkness, Apostle of the Evil Gods, makes my blood boil...
I can only speak for myself of course but if you piss me off too much I don't care how good you are at the game I won't play with you.
Piss off enough people and you'll find yourself on people's "kill on sight" lists. Games like this are very unfriendly places for assholes.
Not that it really matters to me. You can do as you wish and face the consequences.
for example: the Mayer would be able to make some Kind of Blacklist for people with bad behaivior so they would have to pay mor for stuff from NPC's. This would be self regulating since a Mayer who wouldn't take his job siriosly would get replaced rather quickly.
You bring up a good point and it is definitely something to consider.
In my experience runescape has the least toxicity out of the games Ive played.
I think a major factor in the game is that noone is hindered too hard for walking their own track.
Those who dont succeed in dungeons may be good at skilling or merching.
Theres some light toxicity in PvP worlds and in competitive scenarios but theyre optional and u can roleplay deft if u wish to and turn public off.
You're bleeding for salvation, but you can't see that you are the damnation itself." -Norther
It would be like staring at the sun. It would likely hurt you, but it's fun looking at it.
@damokles - I like this thought process.
A way to track all the names that a person has used and on which servers perhaps. Kind of like how Steam will tell you all the names a person has used. It could be important to track things. I wonder if this could be tracked on ones forum profile somehow.
In regard to the server threads, I feel like a post should be given approval before showing on the thread, maybe?
@kethatril Division 2 implemented a reward system for helping out players who "call for backup". This should definitely be something Intrepid looks into for AoC.
Damn it, i can't even argue with that cuz its so true, i'm BR, and most of our time on the internet is simply creating ways to mock pretty much everything under and above the sun, there's no topic we can't make people feel unconfortable about and we are proud about it. But no other nation on the internet can deny that we are the spice that brings the flavour to all games online, people love to hate us just as much as we love to be hated by the rest of the world.
The idea of having commendations (and some kind of reward that goes with it) could be really cool. I like giving kudos to people that deserve it. I'm just not sure where this would enter into play for Ashes. I see that kind of stuff mostly in instanced dungeons / PvP... which seems like something that won't be so big here.
FFXIV had a mentor system that to get into you had to actually have some achievements under your belt and they had mentor icons for PvE, PvP, and crafting separately. But again, that mostly gave rewards for people doing instanced things with new players...
The only thing I worry about (a little) is what happened in BDO for a while where one guild took over everything on the server, and they had absorbed enough top tier guilds that no one could actually do anything about it (people tried)... not sure there was anything the GMs could do since it was all within the rules of the game... but at the same time it killed the game for a lot of people I knew. They left because changing servers meant starting over... which in that super grind-heavy game meant you would never be able to reach the top. I'm not as worried because it seems like this game will actually be more skill-based, not gear grind RNG based where having just 1-2 levels on someone meant they win no matter how good you are.
I think the corruption system along with a mute button will take care of most things but I also think the corruption system won't work and Steven will have to get rid of it eventually. I don't think corruption will make it into the final game and if it does it won't last very long.
So to answer your question, I think toxicity is an unsolvable problem but you should still try because someday it might lead to a solution.
Solutions from other games:
-Blocking functions for chat (to deal with harmless but annoying meme-ing) and several chat channels help a lot (e.g. in BDO most people only read their guild chat in order to avoid the toxicity in server chat).
-Unchangeable user-ID's and community-wide communication to create reputational effects (guilds/societies etc could play an important part here - IF alliances and cooperation is important).
-Karma (system penalty for excessive serial-killing/willful destruction etc) or Bounty (system- or maybe even player-initated rewards for headhunting) would be helpful for more severe cases and toxic actions. These should probably get deactivated for the "lawless wilderness" though (after all, a bit of PvP risk makes some adventuring a lot more fun).
Unfortunately, a reporting function for severe cases, checked and decided by humans (GMs) is pretty much unavoidable (there might even be a legal requirement in some countries for this). By the way, BDO handles the "reporting" relatively user-unfriendly by requiring the user to install some screencapture program themselves to make a video (Screenshot usually not sufficient) as proof of toxicity that then has to be uploaded within a support ticket. While user-unfriendly, it creates also a threshold that really only serious stuff is getting reported.
In the end it will also require a fine balance, what is permissable and what is punishable. (roleplaying anyone?^^) Just keep in mind that not everybody in the game will be a hardcore PvP player age 18+ from the USA and that AoC needs to stay attractive for a broad audience.