Progression locked areas

I don't know if this discussion has been made before(probably) but one thing I'd like to see in this game would be progression locked areas, be it an island or underground area or what have you. For me when ESO release the "One Tamriel" update it ruined the game for me and took away a lot of drive I had to level up and get stronger. That update made it to where you could technically access every part of the game(excluding eso+ if you didn't have it) and you could go everywhere and kind of survive since it made the monsters easier to kill. Pre update it didn't really keep you from going to those areas but if you did you got your world rocked by the more powerful monsters and it wasn't worth trying to go to those areas. Runescape is a game that comes to mind for me. A lot of content is locked behind progressive achievements or completed quests that you have to do in order to get access to said area or even said piece of gear. It also gives me that sense of "accomplishment" or "camaraderie" with the other people on "the other side" once you've beaten said quest of whatever. Anway, it seems like its been said in the past that there isn't going to be anything like that in the game. Do you think it should or shouldn't be? Do you think it deters people from wanting to play or makes them feel left out? Or do you feel like I do and that it gives you a "mission" to get to the "locked" places?

Comments

  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    As you point out, this will not be a thing with areas in Ashes. I think this style of progression lock would go against one of the core aspects this game has pushed since the KS. That being no leveled areas with random mob spawns based on the level of the nodes in the ZOI.

    Other games I have played that locked areas behind level requirements always felt too linear. Like the whole purpose of the game was to keep going until the final area and then stay there. I'm not a fan of that content style. This is of course fine for single player games where in the end you defeat the big bad in that area and win.

    As for progression granting augments in racial or religious paths, I am all for that. But that is just leveling.
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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Leader of Men
    The only thing I remember being "locked" was certain raids would require you to have defeated the first part. That was two years ago, so who knows what they have come up with since. But as Azathoth pointed out, content will not be a static thing where people know where to go at a certain point. Content will appear and disappear based on node level, type, and other "hidden factors." While EU Central may have unlocked Spanky the Rat raid level 2, NA West may never see the joy of Spanky.
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  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited August 19
    Having some quests reward you with access to a new area makes those areas feel more important than they otherwise do - whether that area is solo, group or raid.

    I'm not a fan of locking content based purely on level. To me, if you can get to a place, you should be free to go about trying to survive there.

    There are ways locking off some areas could work in Ashes (not saying should, just could).

    There could be some natural (or unnatural) barrier in an enclosed area somewhere, and getting past this barrier requires the completion of a specific quest. While the content on either side of the barrier may change based on what the node situation is like, that natural (or unnatural) barrier remains in place and only those that have gained access will be able to pass through to take on what ever content happens to be there.
  • PokoPoko Member
    I don't have much experience in the Genre BUT... I wouldn't like it if I could go anywhere and everything just became easy. If I was level 15 and went to somewhere super hard and everything just scaled down to my level the whole entire game would feel washy and easy and like there's no meaning to leveling or gearing for PvE because everything accommodates to your level. Just my thoughts though! I hope they don't do any harsh scaling like that, and just leave different areas have different level mobs in them.
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  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    Poko wrote: »
    I don't have much experience in the Genre BUT... I wouldn't like it if I could go anywhere and everything just became easy. If I was level 15 and went to somewhere super hard and everything just scaled down to my level the whole entire game would feel washy and easy and like there's no meaning to leveling or gearing for PvE because everything accommodates to your level. Just my thoughts though! I hope they don't do any harsh scaling like that, and just leave different areas have different level mobs in them.

    Well, they have stated that a variety of mobs (difficulty) will roam the land. With higher level nodes having a higher base level, but not being restricted to only higher level mobs. So they are currently not planning on this type of scaling, but they aren't limiting players to any particular nodes (outside of start zones) either.

    If areas were locked behind progression, then the nodes associated with those areas would be at a disadvantage to leveling. Due to there being players of lower levels unable to generate xp in that area, and players of higher levels looking for the next progression block to beat.

    In most games I think this type of thing works, but in Ashes I do believe it would be counter-intuitive.
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    I'm really not a fan of hard boundaries in games. If someone wants to go into a super high level place with dangerous monsters, I say let them.
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited August 19
    I feel there's no good reason to gate open world areas by level or quest because it feels artificial and takes away from the achievement of exploration.

    On the other hand, I could see it working if it was to mimic some real-world, physical restriction: gating and island surrounded by rough seas by requiring players to craft a sturdy enough ship or gating a mountain unless players equip climbing gear.
  • VettonVetton Member
    edited August 19
    Ravudha wrote: »
    I feel there's no good reason to gate open world areas by level or quest because it feels artificial and takes away from the achievement of exploration.

    On the other hand, I could see it working if it was to mimic some real-world, physical restriction: gating and island surrounded by rough seas by requiring players to craft a sturdy enough ship or gating a mountain unless players equip climbing gear.

    Yea, so I don't mean like placing one of those artificial barriers that goes 400ft in thy sky with the red "X" saying insufficient level or something. I would like to see maybe something like once a shoreline metropolis or whathaveyou reaches that stage an island or something comes to appearance. Then you either need to have the proper gear to reach said island or have the balls enough to beat whatever monster or raid to be able to get to the rest of the area there....sure you could try it at a lower level but good luck. Ya know something like that. The island could be a plateau on top of a mountain or something else but you get the idea...Just something to know that the other people that are there with you are also some hardass hardcore longtime players too and not just level 3 bob that joined 10 mins ago.
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    It's an MMO, why separate the community?

    I do agree though, some raids should be hard enough to encourage high level play. Same for monsters, world bosses, and such. I don't consider building a dungeon designed to wipe a level 10 party a lock though.

    However, there will be players that optimize their builds and are good enough at the game they could potentially handle the content at a lower level. So, as you indicated, someone with enough 'balls' could still be there with you but at a lower level.

    Designing content for only 'hardass hardcore longtime players' seems like something that could be focused on a longtime after release. Like, an expansion (not necessary to land mass, but new content).

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  • Artificial boundaries, no. I don't want to lock content behind an artificial gate.

    However, it being an open world MMO there will be natural encounters and boundaries with mob levels. If I'm level 10 and stumble upon a level 60 open world dungeon I should be able to poke my head in, die, and mark it for later. It shouldn't scale to my level and it should be something that is there that is like "Oh, you killed me at level 10, in 50 levels I'm coming back for some revenge."

    Its one thing I love about exploring in an MMO is that sense that if you turn the wrong corner you can find yourself WAY out of your depth, but can always make a note of it and try it out later.
  • I have had similar thoughts to the OP, I liked runescape's system where I felt like I earned access to a new area/earned some new mechanic. I do think that AoC may still be able to deliver this, but perhaps not the same scale as runescape.

    As mentioned, zones don't really have level gating since there will be low level content everywhere alongside higher level content for higher level nodes. This then makes certain parts of the world still "gated" by level. If a mountain near a metro contains high level monsters, you can't walk up it casually as a low level player. Perhaps that's also where some area of interest or dungeon is as well, so you would still get a sense of having earned the right to enter such an area if you are strong enough. The mountain could be the motivation you seek to get stronger.

    With the game lacking fast travel, the world may feel very big and I think we will appreciate AoC allowing us to explore and settle down in whatever biome that suits us best (of course taking into consideration other factors as well). But just because zones don't have inherent levels or hard gates does not mean that certain areas of interest, places you would want to explore and poke your nose around in, will be freely accessible or scaled down for every player to experience. So, at least I hope, you will still have some drive to level up and power up to experience new content/places/monsters even if it isn't as clear as it would be in other games.

    All that being said, I still think there is a strong case for dungeon/raid attunements like in old WoW and zone/mechanic gating like in runescape. I personally loved such things, sure it was a bit linear but it made for a nicer narrative in my eyes and made me more invested about experiencing content. Game content being the reward itself is a powerful motivator.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    neuroguy wrote: »
    I have had similar thoughts to the OP, I liked runescape's system where I felt like I earned access to a new area/earned some new mechanic. I do think that AoC may still be able to deliver this, but perhaps not the same scale as runescape.

    As mentioned, zones don't really have level gating since there will be low level content everywhere alongside higher level content for higher level nodes. This then makes certain parts of the world still "gated" by level. If a mountain near a metro contains high level monsters, you can't walk up it casually as a low level player. Perhaps that's also where some area of interest or dungeon is as well, so you would still get a sense of having earned the right to enter such an area if you are strong enough. The mountain could be the motivation you seek to get stronger.

    With the game lacking fast travel, the world may feel very big and I think we will appreciate AoC allowing us to explore and settle down in whatever biome that suits us best (of course taking into consideration other factors as well). But just because zones don't have inherent levels or hard gates does not mean that certain areas of interest, places you would want to explore and poke your nose around in, will be freely accessible or scaled down for every player to experience. So, at least I hope, you will still have some drive to level up and power up to experience new content/places/monsters even if it isn't as clear as it would be in other games.

    All that being said, I still think there is a strong case for dungeon/raid attunements like in old WoW and zone/mechanic gating like in runescape. I personally loved such things, sure it was a bit linear but it made for a nicer narrative in my eyes and made me more invested about experiencing content. Game content being the reward itself is a powerful motivator.

    I agree that Runescape had a good approach, particularly with the requirements for the quests. Often a combat-oriented quest would say something like "able to kill a level 30 dragon" for example, so you knew what you had to do and if you thought you could do it there was nothing stopping you from taking on that creature.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited August 21
    Poko wrote: »
    I don't have much experience in the Genre BUT... I wouldn't like it if I could go anywhere and everything just became easy. If I was level 15 and went to somewhere super hard and everything just scaled down to my level the whole entire game would feel washy and easy and like there's no meaning to leveling or gearing for PvE because everything accommodates to your level. Just my thoughts though! I hope they don't do any harsh scaling like that, and just leave different areas have different level mobs in them.
    We won't be locked from areas. We can travel where ever we want. Whether we can survive long in all those areas is a different matter. Ashes doesn't have content scaling in the open world.
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